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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#1 Posted : 06 June 2018 22:10:18(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
Hi all,

An interesting thought that occurred to me today, and will likely crush my HO scale wallet in the process :) In the steam era -or at least the German/Austrian/French/Italian steam eras - were there locomotives that ran into or through Switzerland from the surrounding countries? Perhaps an international express train that passed through? Or has railroad protocol always been that foreign locos drop a train off at/near the border and a local Swiss engine took the train onwards?

I'm just curious. For example I've seen the prewar Rheingold with a Swiss loco at the helm through Switzerland, but I wasn't sure if that train or others ever saw the foreign steam locos running through Switzerland? This would be fun to model on a layout, especially with a lack of Swiss Steam locomotive prototypes!

Thanks in advance
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Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 07 June 2018 01:50:07(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
As far as I know, and I must preface by saying that my expertise is almost exclusively post-1968 also known as the modern electric period, steam locomotives existed at a time when locomotives were authorized for national operation only. So, a train coming into Switzerland would have stopped at the border station and the locomotive would be replaced by a Swiss locomotive that would take the train to it's destination or to the next border station. For example, the Rheingold would have been pulled by an Ae 4/7 from Basel to Geneva.

http://www.heinrich-hank.../rheingold_1928-1939.htm
http://www.heinrich-hank...ege/gotthard-pullman.htm

Over time, a number of foreign steam locomotives were acquired by Swiss associations and groups and some of those are still being used for charter and tourist traffic today.

In addition to voltage, electric locomotives had to be equipped to work with Swiss catenary (blade width).

The major change was the introduction of the RAe TEE in 1962, which was a four current trainset that could operate internationally.
A little over a decade later, a SNCB Class 1600 multi current locomotive was used to pull the "Freccia del Sole" trains from Brussels to Spiez.

After that, there was the ETR 470 Cisalpino trainsets which could operate in Italy, Switzerland and Germany and finally the TGV Ligne du Coeur/Lyria trainsets.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline jvuye  
#3 Posted : 07 June 2018 11:16:01(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

......

I'm just curious. For example I've seen the prewar Rheingold with a Swiss loco at the helm through Switzerland, but I wasn't sure if that train or others ever saw the foreign steam locos running through Switzerland? This would be fun to model on a layout, especially with a lack of Swiss Steam locomotive prototypes!

Thanks in advance


Mike C is 100% correct, as always.
I'll venture to add a little (maybe anecdotic..) side note.
The last steam-operated line in Switzerland was the connecting line to the FS from Bellinzona to Luino, which saw steamers (C 5/6 "Elephant" and E 3/5 "Habersack) until the 1960's
That line is almost competely on Italian territory, entering Switzerland only in Zenna, near Cadenazzo where it operates its junction with the Gotthard route.
This is by no means a "secondary line" as it (stilll today!) carries a hefty traffic into Varese/Lombardia, as it offers a much smoother profile into Italy than the Ceneri ramp over Lugano and Chiasso
And I've seen (old) pics of Italian steam locos in Cadenazzo.
And even during WW II, there was some "heavy but discrete" traffic there between Germany and Italy through "neutral" Switzerland (e.g. coal trains)
So you don't have to look only around Basel in Era III to see "foreign" steamers in CH!
Just something to play with!
Cheers
Jacques



Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Unholz  
#4 Posted : 07 June 2018 14:06:53(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
In the steam era -or at least the German/Austrian/French/Italian steam eras - were there locomotives that ran into or through Switzerland from the surrounding countries?


Not actually a contradiction, but perhaps an addition:

There certainly were steam locomotives from the neighbor countries that ran into Switzerland - but hardly ever through our country. The following spontaneously come to mind:

- French steamers coming from (as examples) Belfort, Delle, Frasne, Lyon or Mulhouse and running over the border directly to places such as Basel, Geneva, Les Verrières, Porrentruy, or Vallorbe
- German steamers like the BR 50 coming from Singen over the border at Thayngen to Schaffhausen and continuing from there over the "Hochrheinstrecke" to the next border between Trasadingen and Erzingen and further to Basel on the German side of the Rhine
- the very famous German steam trains (also with BR 50) crossing the border between Waldshut (D) and Koblenz (CH), together with the German "Schienenbusse" over the steel bridge still existing nowadays
- rather seldom German steamers running from Konstanz (D) over to Kreuzlingen (CH)
- and finally Austrian steamers (rarely) showing up at Buchs (CH) or St. Margrethen (CH)
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#5 Posted : 07 June 2018 14:56:05(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
Thanks everyone! So in the end my hunch was right, essentially limited to the border handovers and depots, and if it leaned in any direction some Italian steam appearances. (which I was hoping for as I have some Italian steam locos!

Looks like no spending spree is necessary :) Thanks again!
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Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 08 June 2018 01:08:58(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
As far as Italy goes. Was there not at one point a line that went from Castellanza (Malpensa area) to Mendrisio TI which at one point belonged to FNM?

Regards

Mike C
Offline Harryv40  
#7 Posted : 05 August 2018 10:44:50(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 242
Location: Wilshire
Hi Guys
Just to say at the end of world war 2, my father travelled from Italy via Switzerland to the French channel ports to come home to England.
I think they just used whatever they could get.

I don’t know if this helps?

Harry
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