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Question C-Track Isolation/Insulator Question - Detecting isolator-points on existing layout
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Offline Justatool  
#1 Posted : 13 May 2018 22:25:10(UTC)
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Justatool

United States   
Joined: 20/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: California, Cupertino
Hi all:
Great forum. My enthusiasm for Marklin far exceeds my skills! So the forum really helps.

I have "acquired" a 4'x8' permanent C-Track (digital but using 6021 and 6043 Memory Module) layout. Is there an easy way to locate where the center rail insulators are located - without ripping everything part?

Thanks, in advance, for the help.
--AS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 13 May 2018 23:09:25(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,462
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Justatool Go to Quoted Post
Hi all:
Great forum. My enthusiasm for Marklin far exceeds my skills! So the forum really helps.

I have "acquired" a 4'x8' permanent C-Track (digital but using 6021 and 6043 Memory Module) layout. Is there an easy way to locate where the center rail insulators are located - without ripping everything part?

Thanks, in advance, for the help.
--AS


With a layout that size I would use a coach with internal lighting and push it around to see at what point the lights go out - I take it there are signals that will stop a train when the signal is red, that would be about the only reason to have insulators on the centre rail.
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Justatool  
#3 Posted : 13 May 2018 23:19:47(UTC)
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Justatool

United States   
Joined: 20/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: California, Cupertino
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Justatool Go to Quoted Post
Hi all:
Great forum. My enthusiasm for Marklin far exceeds my skills! So the forum really helps.

I have "acquired" a 4'x8' permanent C-Track (digital but using 6021 and 6043 Memory Module) layout. Is there an easy way to locate where the center rail insulators are located - without ripping everything part?

Thanks, in advance, for the help.
--AS


With a layout that size I would use a coach with internal lighting and push it around to see at what point the lights go out - I take it there are signals that will stop a train when the signal is red, that would be about the only reason to have insulators on the centre rail.



Yes indeed - it does have signals. Do you mean first turn all signals red and then push the lighted coach to see where the lights go off? Because when signals are green it would stay lighted all around, right?

Thanks for the quick reply.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 13 May 2018 23:34:54(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,462
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Justatool Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Justatool Go to Quoted Post
Hi all:
Great forum. My enthusiasm for Marklin far exceeds my skills! So the forum really helps.

I have "acquired" a 4'x8' permanent C-Track (digital but using 6021 and 6043 Memory Module) layout. Is there an easy way to locate where the center rail insulators are located - without ripping everything part?

Thanks, in advance, for the help.
--AS


With a layout that size I would use a coach with internal lighting and push it around to see at what point the lights go out - I take it there are signals that will stop a train when the signal is red, that would be about the only reason to have insulators on the centre rail.



Yes indeed - it does have signals. Do you mean first turn all signals red and then push the lighted coach to see where the lights go off? Because when signals are green it would stay lighted all around, right?

Thanks for the quick reply.




Yes, that would be right. However this may not find the isolation sections as you expect, there is a possibility of a layout using a controller of that age having 'keep alive' units on the signal isolation blocks. You don't say what locos/decoders you have, but the first two generations of decoders had a problem where if they were in an isolation section for a period of time they forgot which direction the loco should be going when the signal went green. So marklin devised a system to get around this which keeps enough power on the track for the loco to not have amnesia about direction of travel. The result is that the lights on the coach may not go right out when the signal is red, but I would expect hem to dim.
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Justatool  
#5 Posted : 13 May 2018 23:44:21(UTC)
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Justatool

United States   
Joined: 20/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: California, Cupertino
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Justatool Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Justatool Go to Quoted Post
Hi all:
Great forum. My enthusiasm for Marklin far exceeds my skills! So the forum really helps.

I have "acquired" a 4'x8' permanent C-Track (digital but using 6021 and 6043 Memory Module) layout. Is there an easy way to locate where the center rail insulators are located - without ripping everything part?

Thanks, in advance, for the help.
--AS


With a layout that size I would use a coach with internal lighting and push it around to see at what point the lights go out - I take it there are signals that will stop a train when the signal is red, that would be about the only reason to have insulators on the centre rail.



Yes indeed - it does have signals. Do you mean first turn all signals red and then push the lighted coach to see where the lights go off? Because when signals are green it would stay lighted all around, right?

Thanks for the quick reply.




Yes, that would be right. However this may not find the isolation sections as you expect, there is a possibility of a layout using a controller of that age having 'keep alive' units on the signal isolation blocks. You don't say what locos/decoders you have, but the first two generations of decoders had a problem where if they were in an isolation section for a period of time they forgot which direction the loco should be going when the signal went green. So marklin devised a system to get around this which keeps enough power on the track for the loco to not have amnesia about direction of travel. The result is that the lights on the coach may not go right out when the signal is red, but I would expect hem to dim.


Understood. That's very useful indeed. In all my reading I never saw that mentioned anywhere. I will take a look and post the exact decoders but they are from many many years ago. So I suspect u r right. I do have all sorts of locos (analog/digital) - is that relevant for this? Thanks again for your insight!
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Offline Justatool  
#6 Posted : 14 May 2018 20:43:40(UTC)
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Justatool

United States   
Joined: 20/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: California, Cupertino
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Justatool Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Justatool Go to Quoted Post
Hi all:
Great forum. My enthusiasm for Marklin far exceeds my skills! So the forum really helps.

I have "acquired" a 4'x8' permanent C-Track (digital but using 6021 and 6043 Memory Module) layout. Is there an easy way to locate where the center rail insulators are located - without ripping everything part?

Thanks, in advance, for the help.
--AS


With a layout that size I would use a coach with internal lighting and push it around to see at what point the lights go out - I take it there are signals that will stop a train when the signal is red, that would be about the only reason to have insulators on the centre rail.



Yes indeed - it does have signals. Do you mean first turn all signals red and then push the lighted coach to see where the lights go off? Because when signals are green it would stay lighted all around, right?

Thanks for the quick reply.




Yes, that would be right. However this may not find the isolation sections as you expect, there is a possibility of a layout using a controller of that age having 'keep alive' units on the signal isolation blocks. You don't say what locos/decoders you have, but the first two generations of decoders had a problem where if they were in an isolation section for a period of time they forgot which direction the loco should be going when the signal went green. So marklin devised a system to get around this which keeps enough power on the track for the loco to not have amnesia about direction of travel. The result is that the lights on the coach may not go right out when the signal is red, but I would expect hem to dim.


Hello! I did what you suggested and worked great! Power goes to zero so light on coach goes off - makes it easy. Thanks for your help :)
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