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Offline ShannonN  
#1 Posted : 21 April 2018 17:44:19(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld


Übrigens, es gibt noch vier Stromlinienloks deutschen Ursprungs! -Die Schwesterlok 05 001 steht in Nürnberg ist aber eine Mischung aus alt und neu (Nachbaukessel).

-Die 01 1102 in Eisenbahnfreundekreisen "Stahlhelm" genannt erhielt in den 90ern (wieder) eine Stromlinienverkleidung (vorher BR 012) ist aber derzeit nicht mehr betriebsfähig, auch sie mit (grösserem) Nachbaukessel.

-Die 03 002 steht mit kruder Stromlinienverkleidung im Stil der BR 05 in Prora.

-Dann noch die ehemalige 03 1015 in Warschau, wohl eigentlich die "originalste", historisch sehr wertvolle Stromlinienlok, heute PKP Pm 3-5 bzw 3-3 geheissen

Looking at comment for English explanations don't see much about it seems to be How we built this Doco with pre war we are the best bragging rights?

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Offline TEEWolf  
#2 Posted : 21 April 2018 19:44:44(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post


Übrigens, es gibt noch vier Stromlinienloks deutschen Ursprungs! -Die Schwesterlok 05 001 steht in Nürnberg ist aber eine Mischung aus alt und neu (Nachbaukessel).

-Die 01 1102 in Eisenbahnfreundekreisen "Stahlhelm" genannt erhielt in den 90ern (wieder) eine Stromlinienverkleidung (vorher BR 012) ist aber derzeit nicht mehr betriebsfähig, auch sie mit (grösserem) Nachbaukessel.

-Die 03 002 steht mit kruder Stromlinienverkleidung im Stil der BR 05 in Prora.

-Dann noch die ehemalige 03 1015 in Warschau, wohl eigentlich die "originalste", historisch sehr wertvolle Stromlinienlok, heute PKP Pm 3-5 bzw 3-3 geheissen

Looking at comment for English explanations don't see much about it seems to be How we built this Doco with pre war we are the best bragging rights?



Wow - good German.

Here are the missing translation:

...

By the way, there are still four streamlined locomotives of German origin! The sister locomotive 05 001 in Nuremberg is a mixture of old and new (replica boiler).

The 01 1102, called "steel helmet" by railway enthusiasts in the 90s (again) received a streamlined fairing (previously BR 012), but is no longer operational at present, also with (larger) replica boiler.

The 03 002 stands in the style of the BR 05 in Prora with a cruder streamlined fairing.

Then the former 03 1015 in Warsaw, probably the "most original", historically very valuable streamlined locomotive, today called PKP Pm 3-5 or 3-3

...

Mellow
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Does anybody know where Prora is? I only know one place called Prora in Germany and I hope its the one @ShannonN mentioned. It is a beach resort on Rügen, which is the biggest Island of Germany, located in the Baltic Sea.
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Offline Tom Jessop  
#3 Posted : 21 April 2018 23:22:11(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia



We visited the Prora area 2 years ago mainly to look around Peenemunde for V2 rocket displays ,very interesting place . We then drove round to Prora to see the line of buildings built for the upper echelon of the military during the war period . Never saw any directions for a rail related museum & the only place that I could see one possibly accessible would be between Prora & Sagard where the DB has a very large transhipment area rail to ship . More info would be very interesting as to the correct location of this museum .


Cheers Tom in Oz .
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 22 April 2018 00:09:18(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
According to below two German links, the one in Prora on Rügen is a restored class 03 with 05 streamlining, thus a fantasy product?

http://www.eisenbahn-mus...tiven/baureihe-03/03-002

https://www.drehscheibe-...php?108,4326280,page=all
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#5 Posted : 22 April 2018 00:14:33(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Google maps link for the Prora museum:

https://www.google.pt/ma...aner+Str.+3,+18609+Binz/@54.4430082,13.567935,14z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47ab3f96b7ddc085:0x17b559f0d085abec?hl=de-pt


Museum website (NB: closed in winter):

http://etm-ruegen.de/

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Offline Tom Jessop  
#6 Posted : 22 April 2018 01:27:37(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia



Thanks Alster , We most probably drove past this museum without realising it , it was also late October so maybe no signs on show .


Thanks Tom in Oz .
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Offline Markus Schild  
#7 Posted : 22 April 2018 07:37:49(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
According to below two German links, the one in Prora on Rügen is a restored class 03 with 05 streamlining, thus a fantasy product?


Hi Ak,

This is more complex. Originally only one 03 got a complete streamline body in the shape of the 05. That was 03 193 which is not existing any more. The loco at Prora is reconstructed on the remaining parts of 03 002, which misses many important parts like the cylinders.

Regards

Markus


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Offline jvuye  
#8 Posted : 22 April 2018 09:23:59(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
According to below two German links, the one in Prora on Rügen is a restored class 03 with 05 streamlining, thus a fantasy product?

http://www.eisenbahn-mus...tiven/baureihe-03/03-002

https://www.drehscheibe-...php?108,4326280,page=all


Just as Markus said: there was one (early) streamlining experiment on class 03 #03 193, just before the style of streamlining for the 05s were finalized .

This was used for comparative measurements between on identical locos "with" and "without" the streamlining.

Later on, the 03.10 series streamlining style (like on the Märklin locos) became the final choice , being even more efficient.



Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline ShannonN  
#9 Posted : 29 April 2018 14:24:21(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 492
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Quote:


Just as Markus said: there was one (early) streamlining experiment on class 03 #03 193, just before the style of streamlining for the 05s were finalized .

This was used for comparative measurements between on identical locos "with" and "without" the streamlining.

Later on, the 03.10 series streamlining style (like on the Märklin locos) became the final choice , being even more efficient.


How did the streamlining affect performance? I have read many US and British attempts at streamlining were abandoned after a while as it added too much weight to the loco reducing performance regardless of the benefits gained from better aerodynamics?



Offline jvuye  
#10 Posted : 29 April 2018 17:07:25(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
Quote:


Just as Markus said: there was one (early) streamlining experiment on class 03 #03 193, just before the style of streamlining for the 05s were finalized .

This was used for comparative measurements between on identical locos "with" and "without" the streamlining.

Later on, the 03.10 series streamlining style (like on the Märklin locos) became the final choice , being even more efficient.


How did the streamlining affect performance? I have read many US and British attempts at streamlining were abandoned after a while as it added too much weight to the loco reducing performance regardless of the benefits gained from better aerodynamics?





When you read the articles and books written in those days, the benefit was essentially coming from reduced consumption compared to a non-streamlined loco,
It was established to be as much as 10% less coal and water.

This was measured precisely with the 03 193 when compared with an identical 03 machine in the same conditions.

Percentage wise, the streamlining did not really add a significant amount of extra weight on the german locos, and in any case it was kept within the limits of the specified max load/axle.

For example the un-streamlined original 03 weighted 90.4 tons (dry, locomotive alone) and 99.6 tons (with full boiler) while the streamlined 03.10 weighted 93.8 ton (dry) and 103.0 tons (full boiler) so approximately 4% extra weight.
And take in account that the 03.10 was also a 3 cylinders design!

As another comparison, the dry weight difference between the pre WWII streamlined 05 and the same post WW II (un-streamlined version) was also about 4.5 tons (118.5 vs 114)

The somewhat more complicated maintenance was the main drawback, that's what I have read consistently in all the literature.

I have no specific documentation on values for streamlined US RR locos for comparison, but I'm sure someone could provide that information.

Hope this helps

Jacques


Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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