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Offline C Ridout  
#1 Posted : 03 April 2018 17:33:57(UTC)
C Ridout

United Kingdom   
Joined: 10/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: England, Yateley
Anybody had this happen?
The braking sound does not work on my CS2 60214 (or CS1 or MS1). The icon is shown on the screen for all the locomotives that have that function, but it does not work when switched on and the locomotive is controlled by the CS2 or by the RR&Co software.
If I go to the CS2 'Control' tab and then use the 'spanner' to get into the set up menu, and then use the 'test' function the brake sound does not work on any loco. If I disconnect the CS2 from the RR&Co software, again the brake sound does not work.
Any ideas or is there a known problem with software 4.2.1 on the CS2.
Offline Minok  
#2 Posted : 03 April 2018 19:29:50(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,319
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Did you have the brake squeal sound working before? (ie is there some recent change in software/settings/upgrade applied that caused what was working to now no longer work)?

I ask because on Märklin locomotives, it appears that the brake squeal sound is produced entirely by the controller logic on on the locomotive decoder, and it is triggered (if not disabled by the function to disable squeak) - IF and ONLY IF the trains actual velocity is above its controller set velocity (and the velocity is above 50 possibly) and the ABV causes the speed to reduce gradually to the desired speed the controller set (zero) - so one manually operating the loco at a high speed above 50, then turns the desired speed down to 0.

When software like TrainController does the speed regulating to slow the train by setting speed steps gradually slower, that prevents the Märklin decoder from triggering its internal 'brake squeal' feature. There isn't a way to get Märklin controllers to generate brake squeal by function or programmatically.

So if it was working and now its not working, some setting may have changed such as ABV is turned off?

(I'm basing this off of other discussion threads on the break squeal issue when using Märklin decoders):
https://www.marklin-user...40339-Brake-squeal-noise
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline C Ridout  
#3 Posted : 03 April 2018 19:46:52(UTC)
C Ridout

United Kingdom   
Joined: 10/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: England, Yateley
The brake sound was working before, although I have recently updated to 4.2.1
I have also changed the set up so that my CS2 and CS1 are connected to the Router rather than the Marklin Bus.

When TrainController is operating the brake sounds have not worked in the past caused by the gradual speed change, as you mention.

What surprises me is that I cannot even test the function with the CS2 in the maintenance/test mode and yet the other functions do respond.
I have tried both with ABV on and off and it makes no difference.

I may try a reset on a loco and put it back to factory settings to see if that does anything.
Offline Minok  
#4 Posted : 03 April 2018 21:54:54(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,319
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
From what I understand, there isn't a function to test the brake mode. There is only the act of rapidly slowing by requesting a speed of 0, while the loco is in motion, with ABV on, and the settings that relate to brake squeal duration/levels being set in CVs possibly. There is a minimum speed to even generate a squeal as well (50 is what i read somewhere) - so if the requested speed is 0 and the actual speed is > 0 and the speed is/was > 50, and it meets the other CV set criteria - only then will he decoder generate the brake squeal sound.

IE there are a LOT of ways to prevent the brake squeal sound, and no way to force it to play. Its a "Märklin feature(tm)"

If you find a solution, do let us know.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline C Ridout  
#5 Posted : 03 April 2018 23:29:29(UTC)
C Ridout

United Kingdom   
Joined: 10/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: England, Yateley
726ADD59-60DC-41BC-A4FB-FD1B5EAA6160.jpeg
I have attached (I hope) a picture of the CS2 screen in configuration mode.
It is possible to test all the sound and light functions. The one that does not work is the brake sound.
Offline Tower  
#6 Posted : 04 April 2018 07:02:09(UTC)
Tower


Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 169
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
After reading about this in an earlier thread I also noticed that Brake Squeal has disappeared all of a sudden, also on version 4.2.1 .

I've increased The braking Delay, played around with Vmax and Vmin, nothing brings it back.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 04 April 2018 15:32:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,470
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
From what I understand, there isn't a function to test the brake mode. There is only the act of rapidly slowing by requesting a speed of 0, while the loco is in motion, with ABV on, and the settings that relate to brake squeal duration/levels being set in CVs possibly. There is a minimum speed to even generate a squeal as well (50 is what i read somewhere) - so if the requested speed is 0 and the actual speed is > 0 and the speed is/was > 50, and it meets the other CV set criteria - only then will he decoder generate the brake squeal sound.

IE there are a LOT of ways to prevent the brake squeal sound, and no way to force it to play. Its a "Märklin feature(tm)"

If you find a solution, do let us know.


Not just Marklin, ESU decoders work the same way.

back in the days when Loksound 3.5 decoders were the thing to have brake squeal required the train to be travelling at a speed step of 4 or more (on an MM14 step controller) and then cut the speed to 0 so that the momentum control in the decoder slowed the speed down at the programmed rate. This would then cause the brake squeal at an appropriate point.

I assume more recent decoders require a similar speed before cutting the speed to 0 to generate the squeal.

Offline C Ridout  
#8 Posted : 04 April 2018 18:23:44(UTC)
C Ridout

United Kingdom   
Joined: 10/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: England, Yateley
I have found the problem. BigGrin

1. It is not possible to use the Brake Squeal by using the Test button on the configuration page. No matter what I do it will not work.
However.
2. Make sure the locomotive sound (diesel/steam) is switched ON. Then the brake sound does work when slowing to 0 from a good speed. If the locomotive sound is not switched on as well, the brake sound does not work.

I've test run a few other M loco's (mfx mainly) and they are all the same.

I seem to remember this being the case although it had escaped me on this occasion.


thanks 2 users liked this useful post by C Ridout
Offline Minok  
#9 Posted : 04 April 2018 18:40:04(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,319
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
A the old "is it plugged in?" problem. ;-)
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Minok
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 06 April 2018 09:00:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: C Ridout Go to Quoted Post
Anybody had this happen?
The braking sound does not work on my CS2 60214 (or CS1 or MS1). The icon is shown on the screen for all the locomotives that have that function, but it does not work when switched on and the locomotive is controlled by the CS2 or by the RR&Co software.
We have many threads about this "issue".

The name of the function is "Sound effect: Squealing brakes off" and it does what it advertises: it prevents the sound of squealing brakes when it is activated.

Only few Märklin locos have a function "Squealing brakes" where you hear a sound when you press the "Test" button.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 12 April 2018 20:27:44(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,560
Location: Paris, France
Hi

For the brakes squeals to be heard you must:
- have the Squealing breakes OFF in OFF position
- must reach a minimum speed of XX (depending on a parameter on the decoder often around 35%).
- must set the speed to zero (any slowing down won't work)

So to avoid squealing issues, I set the following parameters:
-CV 51 "Bandbreite Bremsschwelle" to value 7
-CV 52 "Korrekturauslauf" to value 3
-CV 53 "Bremsschwelle ausschalten" to value 2
thanks to some Stummi forum friends

Cheers

Jean
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline David Dewar  
#12 Posted : 14 April 2018 20:22:09(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,453
Location: Scotland
Did I just read that to hear the brakes squeal you have to have the squealing brakes in the Off position. Don't understand that.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 14 April 2018 21:33:25(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,319
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The break squeal function activation is to "disable brake squeal"

So you need to have that functions set to off (not enabled) to ensure that the "break squeal" is not "disabled"

The function is a press to disable function.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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