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Offline ae66green  
#1 Posted : 17 January 2018 17:08:46(UTC)
ae66green

Canada   
Joined: 10/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 27
According to instruction manual for Marklin M84 60842, it should use the external power supply 66367 together with the universal power supply 60822 to power the M84.

Since the B/O terminal on the M84 would pick up the digital signal and the track power to switch and power the 4 groups of relay on the M84, does any one know why it needs an external power supply for it? If I understand correctly, the power used by the M84 picked up from the B/O terminal is independent of the 4 groups of output (it uses to switch the relays only), no matter what device you connect to any of the 4 output, it should have their only power supply. In my application, I connect a Viessmann block signal to 1 output, the street lights to another output, and they are powered by an old time TRIX transformer (but my layout are running the Marklin locomotives using the C-tracks). I really don't understand why the 60822 and 66376 are needed? Furthermore, when I download and read the instruction manual for the universal power supply 60822, it does not say what the purpose of that device is for? Why it need the 60822 in between the M84 and the 66367?
Offline Rwill  
#2 Posted : 17 January 2018 18:04:10(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 667
Location: England, London
You have answered your own question. The B/0 power from the track will power up an M84/M83 just as it does the former K83/k84 and viessmann equivalents. You may if you wish plug in a 66357 but no one has ever explained why you could possibly need a 60822 - think M made it and marketed before they worked out what it does. Cant find it right now but there is a post with the thoughts of our learned friend Clapcott on the subject or maybe he will be along later with his response.
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#3 Posted : 17 January 2018 20:22:34(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 741
Location: Täby
It seems like 60822 is designed to reduce electromagnetic interference with other electronic equipment. But as for an m84 it is a very limited benefit of using external power...
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 18 January 2018 00:30:59(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post
... does any one know why it needs an external power supply for it?


Reason for providing external power include ...

1) - retain the state of device ports when the controller B/0 power is off (Manual stop or track short)
The m84 is NOT like the k84 with latching relays
If you are using one of the blinking functions the logic continues to work without the need for the controller

2) - reduce power draw from important items like locomotives
While more applicable to the m83 of the family, the m84 does have helpful indicator LEDs and you may make use of the Hobby signal outputs (e.g. indicators on your homemade track control board.
There is also the mater of inrush current (and electrical noise) when power is (re)applied to the m8* electronics. Most people can here the electronic squeal as they are woken up. Maintaining power from an external source across a track short situation mitigates this.

3) - for users of the m84 without a digital controller

4) - for programming (notably with a MS2) you get more reliable reading of CV values



Peter
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 18 January 2018 00:46:23(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: ae66green Go to Quoted Post

I really don't understand why the 60822 and 66376 are needed?

Why it need the 60822 in between the M84 and the 66367?


The only use I can attribute to a 60822 (with a 6637*) is for external power to a k83 - to prevent surges when switching solenoids (turnouts/signals) that may be noticed by dimming lights.
(soooo - last century thinking)

When powering a m83/m84 I do not use a 60822
Peter
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