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Offline cookee_nz  
#1 Posted : 26 December 2017 02:36:54(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,993
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hi all, ok now I freely admit that Steam Loks are not really my thing but I would like this explained.

Below are two Locos. Both are Class 89, but slightly different road number, 89 006 & 89 066

But they are very obviously quite different in appearance. I thought a Cl 89 would always look the same? Why is the 89 066 not actually under a different class?

I feel dumb asking this and don't know why I haven't noticed previously, perhaps because I only got the 3104 recently to compare.

So why the difference, is it just an Epoch change? - is this even a sensible question?

3000.jpg

3104.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline sjbartels  
#2 Posted : 26 December 2017 06:43:29(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Hi all, ok now I freely admit that Steam Loks are not really my thing but I would like this explained.

Below are two Locos. Both are Class 89, but slightly different road number, 89 006 & 89 066

But they are very obviously quite different in appearance. I thought a Cl 89 would always look the same? Why is the 89 066 not actually under a different class?

I feel dumb asking this and don't know why I haven't noticed previously, perhaps because I only got the 3104 recently to compare.

So why the difference, is it just an Epoch change? - is this even a sensible question?



Well the first example you have, the 89 006 (Marklin 3000) is the 89 class, based on this photo

089_008.jpg

Now, here's the really interesting part of this. There were only 10 ever built and run with the Reichsbahn until after the second world war, when 5 remained in East Germany and the other 5 sent to Poland (reparations most likely in my opinion). The last unit was retired in 1968, so technically both examples you have here, in DB livery, did not have any original prototype, so whilst the 3000 is what I would (and have always) considered the 89 class.... both technically never existed. The 3000 of course has been around since 1953 and the 3104 was for one year in 1980 (likely a cheap starter set piece or something IMHO).

Addendum - looking at the 3104 and the lack of moving parts on the wheels, I am more inclined to think it was a cheap starter set piece, but I could be wrong
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
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Offline vilithejou  
#3 Posted : 26 December 2017 07:53:04(UTC)
vilithejou


Joined: 17/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 849
Location: Vic, Barcelona
Hi

The class in the DB/DRG means the rolling of whells. IN BR89 DB included all class models that have 0-3-0 that will be in each lander railroad company. You can see all BR 89 that have DB here

Wikipedia BR 89

Marklin have another BR 89 with 37140 and consecutive

For example BR 75 or BR 38 have a lot of different models under these class

Joan Vilarrúbia
vilithejou@yahoo.es
Fan of Märklín, Kroko lover
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 26 December 2017 08:16:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,441
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
But they are very obviously quite different in appearance. I thought a Cl 89 would always look the same? Why is the 89 066 not actually under a different class?
They are different classes - and from different times.
Other class numbers like 152, 182, and 220 have also been used for several different classes at different times.

At first it must be noted that there is not a single "BR 89". The exponent/part behind the dot matters.

The #3104 is "BR 89.0,1" from Prussian time (pr T 8) and inherited by DRG. Locos were retired quite early and running numbers could be reused.

The #3000/#30000 is "BR 89.0" newly designed by DRG.

The 89 066 was really used by DB. The old Prussian locos were retired by DRG, but some survived at private companies and this one made it to DB - but it probably never had the DB cookie. All the #3000/#30000 with DB cookie are fantasy liveries as the prototypes were never used by DB.


Originally Posted by: vilithejou Go to Quoted Post
Marklin have another BR 89 with 37140 and consecutive
That's not BR 89, that is "BR 89.70-75" or "pr T 3".

Märklin also made models of "BR 89.3-4" recently.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 26 December 2017 09:09:32(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,993
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Thanks all, it sort of makes sense now, I suspected the part about the fantasy Loco's, but was not so certain about some of the other classes that do exist in the prototype. It''s only as I dig a little deeper that I start to see these differences. I guess these are just the first two that I have had bearing the same class but physically very different.

I don't believe I have any other Loco's at all in my collection that use the same class but are very different.

Thanks again, I knew it was a dumb question but at least I asked RollEyes
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 26 December 2017 09:17:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,441
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Thanks again, I knew it was a dumb question but at least I asked RollEyes
Not a dumb question. Things that are unique at any point in time (like phone numbers) are not unique when looking at larger time frames or when mixing regions.

When people start with this hobby they know nothing. And they will encounter riddles that have a rather simple explanation. It's never dumb to admit having no experience in specific areas.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline sjbartels  
#7 Posted : 27 December 2017 03:31:19(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
All the #3000/#30000 with DB cookie are fantasy liveries as the prototypes were never used by DB.


Yes, thats what I noted, five by DR (East Germany) and 5 by Poland after WW2. There were only 10 actually ever built.

What I did note was even though, per my above post, the last was retired in Dresden in 1968, and was never used by the DB, it was apparently actually listed in the DB transport directory. Interesting. That could be worth some further research...
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 27 December 2017 08:53:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,441
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
There were only 10 actually ever built.
That didn't stop Märklin from making a 89 028 and a 89 031.

The 89 066 was actually used by DB, so there was a prototype. I'm afraid there was no prototype for a 89 066 with a DB cookie, though.

A nicer version of 89 066 in DB livery was made by Brawa.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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