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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 11 November 2017 22:30:23(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Is a properly updated CS1 as good as a CS3?

Thank you.

BigGrin
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 11 November 2017 22:38:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Is a properly updated CS1 as good as a CS3?
IMHO a properly updated CS1 is better than a CS2. Both have unique features.

For my big fingers a CS1 works better than a CS3 (where I sometimes increase the speed of a train while trying to stop it).

Everybody has to try them all to find which station is best for them.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#3 Posted : 12 November 2017 01:32:20(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
I have a CS1 purchsed with a starter set in 2008.
And I find it adequate for my 2.3 x 3.3 metre layout.
I do not have any boosters, and have a Mobile Station attached.

Funny thing is every time I phone Maerklin in Germany to discuss a repair or product, they ask about my control.
They seem almost dismissive when I mention my CS1, and encourage me to get the latest controller, viz a CS3.
I guess they are only doing their job.
But I am unable to see the need.
I don't have any routing, turnout, or signal control on the CS1, because I use push button switching such as the 72720.

Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline applor  
#4 Posted : 12 November 2017 02:15:57(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
A CS1 reloaded (ESU update) is a great controller. Not pretty but does all the same stuff. I do like how the CS1 and ECOS show the actual speed steps of the decoder, rather than a virtual speedometer.

Unfortunately the CS1 reloaded update is no longer available, though your other option is the ESU ECOS.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 12 November 2017 12:28:21(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi

I have a CS1 (last Marklin upgrade) and CS2 (h/w 5.1) and it seems to me that on the CS1:
- the monochrome screen is rather dull with poor definition
- the registration with MFX locos is less efficient than on CS2 (very slow)
- the power output is smaller compared with CS2 5 amps (later versions)
- no ethernet connection (I think) so I cannot use PC controlled s/w

I am not using the CS1 anymore except on rare occasions.
The CS2 is not perfekt but definitely worth the money

I have no CS3 yet but I believe:
- there is no hurry to purchase one when s/w is still in early stages
- the screen is higher definition than the CS2 but being the same size as the CS3, because of the absence of lateral keys you lose screen surface
- there probably be some hardware improvements as it was the case on CS1 and CS2

Notes
- on CS2: I have 2 of them and both show a stop key contact problem (poor quality surface-mounted key on the mother-board). I had also twice to send it back for repairs
- early versions of CS2 (60213 and some 60214) must be avoided because of reliability issues, non insulation of the power output and S88 failure issues.
- on CS1: never a failure but oxydation issues on battery terminals and interference between the touchscreen and the plastic casing (you can solve it yourself).

Cheers
Jean
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Offline David Dewar  
#6 Posted : 12 November 2017 15:26:05(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
CS1 has a poor screen compared to the CS2. I will stick with my CS2 until I feel the CS3 has been properly tried and tested (by members on here lol) before changing. CS2 has given me years of service and never a problem and hopefully will continue to do so.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 12 November 2017 16:38:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
- the registration with MFX locos is less efficient than on CS2 (very slow)
True.

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
- the power output is smaller compared with CS2 5 amps (later versions)
CS1 without ESU update: 2.8 A, CS1 with ESU update: 4.0 A
Early CS2: 2.4 A.
Recent CS2 with transformer: 3 A.
Recent CS2 with power supply recommended for H0: 3 A.
So the power output of the CS1 is not that bad.

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
- no ethernet connection (I think) so I cannot use PC controlled s/w
There is an Ethernet connection.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 12 November 2017 20:08:10(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi

I have a CS1 (last Marklin upgrade) and CS2 (h/w 5.1) and it seems to me that on the CS1:
- the monochrome screen is rather dull with poor definition
- the registration with MFX locos is less efficient than on CS2 (very slow)
- the power output is smaller compared with CS2 5 amps (later versions)
- no ethernet connection (I think) so I cannot use PC controlled s/w


The CS1 DOES have an ethernet connection, and I understand (from things posted on this forum) the the CS2 PC program that Marklin has will work (to some degree) with it.

I agree about the screen - it was bad when the cs1 was introduced, I couldn't understand how Marklin went with that screen - especially when the ECoS was introduced about six months later with a screen that had much better resolution and contrast.

The power output is definitely limited, and the only boosters you can use with it are 6015 which don't provide mfx feedback.

Other limitations - only 16 functions available, there will never be an update to 32 functions. Along with this is the lack of any mfx+ functionality (many, including myself, see this as no loss).

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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 13 November 2017 08:15:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
The power output is definitely limited, and the only boosters you can use with it are 6015 which don't provide mfx feedback.
Besides the 6015 and 6017, the 6604 and the 66045 you can also get ESU boosters with 4 A and 8 A with mfx feedback.


Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Other limitations - only 16 functions available, there will never be an update to 32 functions. Along with this is the lack of any mfx+ functionality (many, including myself, see this as no loss).
ESU has an upgrade for more than 30 functions. Märklin do not make this upgrade available to all customers.
The contract negotiated between ESU and Märklin may have some loopholes - but I don't like that trusting 60212 buyers have to suffer from a conflict between two companies.
The 60212 shows how bad long term support from Märklin can be (same for SDS).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 13 November 2017 20:30:52(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Is a properly updated CS1 as good as a CS3?


If you are drawing a long bow and consider "properly updated CS1" to include the CS1 Reloaded offered by ESU then the spawned discussion bringing ECoS into the equation may have some relevance, otherwise it is totally irrelevant.

On the original question , unless you define what "good" means then any answer is going to be very subjective.

Personally I would say they are equally deficient (maybe not for the same individual aspect)
But as of Nov2017 I would not buy a CS1(60212)




Peter
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 13 November 2017 20:50:18(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
But as of Nov2017 I would not buy a CS1(60212)
Neither would I.
But I wouldn't swap my CS1 for a CS3 or CS3+.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline baggio  
#12 Posted : 14 November 2017 01:33:07(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Neither would I.
But I wouldn't swap my CS1 for a CS3 or CS3 .


Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 14 November 2017 07:47:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused
I have a CS1 "Reloaded", I'm happy with it - it is fast and fluent and efficiently does what I know, I have no intention to replace it while it works.
I'll probably get an ECoS to replace it if it ever should fail beyond repair.
The QVGA screen of the CS1 is "old school", but I select locos by name or by address, not by image.

Folks say the CS2 has a much faster processor. The CS1R feels faster and is more efficient.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline MaerklinLife  
#14 Posted : 14 November 2017 12:29:58(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Folks say the CS2 has a much faster processor. The CS1R feels faster and is more efficient.

Which is your personal opinion, although presented as a fact.

Personally, I see the CS1 as a relic of days gone by. I would prefer the CS3 any day over the old school CS1/ECoS.
Offline baggio  
#15 Posted : 14 November 2017 13:05:34(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Hi, HO.

Can you explain to me what "reloaded" means exactly?

I am assuming it's more than just updating the software.

Thank you. BigGrin
Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 14 November 2017 13:05:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Which is your personal opinion, although presented as a fact.
To some extent this can be checked with a stopwatch.

Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Can you explain to me what "reloaded" means exactly?
"CS1 reloaded" is a discontinued ESU product that brings the ECoS firmware to the Märklin Central Station 60212.
The CS1 got much faster with version 3.x, and version 4.x brought another speed increase.

The latest version provided by Märklin, 2.0.4, is old, buggy, incomplete, and slow.
Slow hardware with highly optimised code will create a better user experience than fast hardware with very inefficient code.

"Reloaded" was discontinued and it is no longer possible to upgrade CS1s that still have 2.0.4 installed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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