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MrB32  
#1 Posted : 20 October 2017 23:51:09(UTC)
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Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 260
I was playing with some M-track inclines in analog mode lately, and came across the age old traction issues going up the ramps. My inclines are based on the Marklin gleisplanbuch, at 2% with enough space for catenaries at the highest point.

I checked the usual..
- locomotives were all recently maintained, no issue there.
- traction tires: ok, nice and tight.
- clean tracks: ok, but gave another go at cleaning with isopropyl alcohol. Removed spots of rust here and there with the finest sanding paper I have.
- connection between tracks: locomotive lights flickered going over a couple of spots: adjusted the middle contacts, cleaned and adjusted the fishplates

After all this the performance was the same... some locos went up faster than other, but this was normal, but all of then nearly ground to a halt at some point.

I decided to change the radius used from R1 to R2, thinking the tight radius might cause this, treating my 5200 track pieces as above, with the same result.

I searched the forum and the internet for a solution but couldn't find anything I hadn't tried.

In a last resort, I decided to add a feeder track to the ramp,

Problem solved! I was over 2 meter away from the nearest feeder track, so the locomotives not only struggled with the ramp, but also with getting adequate power...

I am pretty sure I could have saved myself a few hours, had I thought about this earlier in the process, however, this is never mentioned, so this might help a few other people.

From now on, one feeder track every 2m or every 10 5106 will be my rule.
Offline Harvey  
#2 Posted : 21 October 2017 04:02:46(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 593
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Glad you solved this problem. Tinkering seems to solve a good number. I do recall reading the advice in many threads regarding feeding current every 6 feet (2 meters). I have followed that suggestion and so have not encountered the problem of insufficient power. But of course others challenges have come up. I just post questions and a member offers a suggestion.

I also us M track and sometimes I'll feed current at intervals less then 6 feet (insignificant cost and effort to do this) when my testing shows a dead spot and I cann't resolve fully by tinkering with the tracks.

Regards
Harvey
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Harvey
Offline dickinsonj  
#3 Posted : 28 October 2017 02:11:40(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: MrB32 Go to Quoted Post

From now on, one feeder track every 2m or every 10 5106 will be my rule.

Exactly what I have found as well. A good power bus with a lot of connections solves so many problems. For me it was all of the expected ones plus unexpectedly fixing the strange sound sync problems my old 2001 Big Boy had.

Everything on your layout needs adequate power and even more importantly good digital communications to work properly. Once the old school wiring is done correctly you will be amazed at how much better everything else works. The benefit is even greater with M track, which has less robust electrical connectors between track pieces.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Deepak  
#4 Posted : 18 January 2019 11:36:28(UTC)
Deepak

India   
Joined: 12/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Bangalore
Hi all,

please help me understand this a bit better.

Till now i have been running trains on small layouts (max of 25 mts of track) with a MS2 - and I always had only one power connection to the tracks - and have always encountered lack of power at places.

My new layout (which is in process of being setup) has 600+ track pieces (roughly 100+ meters) - and CS3+ is on the way. So how do i connect the power from the CS3+ - is it only at one place or should i connect the power by feeder wires at multiple places. Going by the 2 mt rule in this thread - I would need about 50 power connections!! Is it right or am i missing something.
Also what wire thickness should be used - for CS3 i suppose it is gauge 20 or better gauge 18 - do i use the same for feeder wires also?


I want to work on the feeder wires connections while my CS3+ arrives by next week.

A reference pic or diagram would be of great help.

Thanks in advance.

Deepak
Bangalore, India
Offline jvuye  
#5 Posted : 18 January 2019 14:04:23(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Deepak Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

please help me understand this a bit better.

.....
So how do i connect the power from the CS3+ - is it only at one place or should i connect the power by feeder wires at multiple places. Going by the 2 mt rule in this thread - I would need about 50 power connections!!
Is it right or am i missing something.
Also what wire thickness should be used - for CS3 i suppose it is gauge 20 or better gauge 18 - do i use the same for feeder wires also?


I want to work on the feeder wires connections while my CS3+ arrives by next week.

A reference pic or diagram would be of great help.

Thanks in advance.

Deepak
Bangalore, India


Yes Deepak, you have this right!

In fact even denser supplies are always advisable.
But you don't have to run 50 connections from one central supply point!!
Very simply you could run two strands a bare copper wires ( e.g. 2 mm2 or bigger in section ) all along (underneath) the layout, them make local connections every 10 pieces of track
The point to understand here is that each track connection is an added (electrical) resistance between the CS and the loco.
The large section of copper will "bridge" all these added "resistances".

Have fun with your layout, you will never enjoy it better than after wiring it that way!

Cheers

Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 18 January 2019 14:58:29(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Additional to the excellent advice above, I think each section of rail (e.g.: 2 meters) should be insulated from others (center only) so as to ease locating a possible short-circuits.

Cheers

Jean
Offline W3Machinist  
#7 Posted : 25 January 2019 21:57:19(UTC)
W3Machinist

United States   
Joined: 19/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: North Carolina, Locust
Information from an Electrical Engineer and Marklin friend of mine checks all "M" tracks for Ground, continuity, and resistance across ground and power strip.
With age some "M" tracks brake down and reduce power supply to Loco's. Extra power strips are just a patch and bad track puts extra current draw on the power supply.

I hope this is of some help.

WoodyMellow
Offline dickinsonj  
#8 Posted : 26 January 2019 01:00:34(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,682
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
I think each section of rail (e.g.: 2 meters) should be insulated from others (center only) so as to ease locating a possible short-circuits.

Cheers

Jean


I agree - that would be great for diagnostics and could save you a LOT of time in the long run. Cool

Do you have a method for easily toggling power to each section to facilitate testing?

To make this reach its full potential you need a way to do that, correct?
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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