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Offline Wikkedy86  
#1 Posted : 24 July 2017 01:03:58(UTC)
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Wikkedy86

Denmark   
Joined: 11/10/2016(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Harlev J
Hi Guys


Quick question..

Are the Marklin and Trix engines 100% the same, beside the center pick-up shoe?
Same internals, externals, axles and wheels?

I tried the search function, but it seems to be out of order or very Very slow!

Edited by user 24 July 2017 08:51:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best Regards
Frank
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#2 Posted : 24 July 2017 05:08:11(UTC)
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MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
The quick answer: Yes. They are the same.

Historically there have been some models that were only marketed by Trix and not Märklin. But looking at today's product line up all Trix models are DC versions of the Märklin models.
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 24 July 2017 08:50:23(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Frank!
Originally Posted by: Wikkedy86 Go to Quoted Post
Are the Marklin and Trix engines 100% the same, beside the center pick-up shoe?
Same internals, externals, axles and wheels?
The quick answer: there is no simple answer.

We have seen models where the Trix variant had a different motor than the Märklin variant.
IIRC Trix locos never had mfx+ (but do have mfx recently).

If you ask about a specific model, there could be a quick answer.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Wikkedy86  
#4 Posted : 24 July 2017 08:50:52(UTC)
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Wikkedy86

Denmark   
Joined: 11/10/2016(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Harlev J
Many Thanks :-)

So one can expect that steam engines are equiped with full metal wheels, and not metal wheels with ugly plastic spokes?

Best Regards
Frank
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 24 July 2017 09:02:59(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Wikkedy86 Go to Quoted Post
So one can expect that steam engines are equiped with full metal wheels, and not metal wheels with ugly plastic spokes?
Trix locos can be expected to have a plastic insulation between axle and wheel on one side.

Trix locos can be expected to have fewer traction tyres.

I have a Trix crocodile with two traction tyres - both on the same side. On turnouts the loco drives on the flanges on one side, so both traction tyres will be lifted off at the same time and pulling power is very low in that moment.

The electric E 19.0 from Trix has nice plastic wheels while the E 19.1 from Märklin/Trix has rather ugly metal wheels.
The locos could be Trix moulds in Märklin boxes or Märklin moulds in Trix boxes.

Which steamer(s) are you after?

Converting Trix locos with a centre-rail pickup is often a simple job and can help to save some money.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Wikkedy86  
#6 Posted : 24 July 2017 09:18:13(UTC)
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Wikkedy86

Denmark   
Joined: 11/10/2016(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Harlev J
In this case its the trix 22905.
It looks so good as a Marklin engine. Really Nice looking iconic wheels.!

Would really love to see that on the trix counterpart :-)
Best Regards
Frank
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 24 July 2017 09:34:33(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Wikkedy86 Go to Quoted Post
In this case its the trix 22905.
In this post you can find hi-res pictures of the 22905:
https://modellbahninfo.org/modelle-20160226-02/
(copy and paste the images to see the full resolution)

Looks as if the insulation rings are on both sides. The Märklin version does not have those insulation rings.
So if you run on three-rail, the Märklin variant will look better.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Wikkedy86  
#8 Posted : 24 July 2017 10:15:01(UTC)
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Wikkedy86

Denmark   
Joined: 11/10/2016(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Harlev J
You mean that little ring that sits between the axle and wheel, right?
Didnt notice that difference at first :)
Just tried to zoom in hard on them.. Doesnt look like plastic at first hand.

On the diesel and electric engines, i dont care that much, but on the steamers i like the wheels and details around them, to look as good as possible.


But i think i will choose to go with Marklin.
The issue im facing is, should i go 2-rail og 3-rail for a new wall-hugging german layout. Large bridges, tunnels and mountains :)
Stream engines paradise!

At the same time, there are more Marklin steamers to choose between, than there are Trix.
Am i right? :)

And your little issue with traction tires on one side, does give Trix a little disadvantage in my eyes. Dont like to be low on traction when going up steap mountains!
Best Regards
Frank
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Offline Brakeman  
#9 Posted : 24 July 2017 20:39:40(UTC)
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Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 298
Location: Southern California
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Wikkedy86 Go to Quoted Post
So one can expect that steam engines are equiped with full metal wheels, and not metal wheels with ugly plastic spokes?
Trix locos can be expected to have a plastic insulation between axle and wheel on one side.

Trix locos can be expected to have fewer traction tyres...


Also Trix American models had RP25 wheels with small flanges, which give trouble on M -track turnouts.

Not sure, but I bet The wheel sets on Trix locos follow NEM standard, not Märklin. This means smaller flanges and different inner distance between the wheels, 14.3mm with NEM and 14.0mm with Märklin.

Regards,
Juha
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Era III DB & US Southwest transition era.
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Offline Minok  
#10 Posted : 24 July 2017 21:11:42(UTC)
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Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Wikkedy86 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Guys


Quick question..

Are the Marklin and Trix engines 100% the same, beside the center pick-up shoe?
Same internals, externals, axles and wheels?

I tried the search function, but it seems to be out of order or very Very slow!


So my gut instinct answer is no.

Because 2-rail DC operation has some substantial differences to 3-conductor AC operation, if the two must maintain compatibility back to proper DC analog and AC analog operation as well as digital functionality. So the decoder/electronics may well be different too.

Then there is the need for DC (Trix) to have the left side and right side wheels electrically insulated.

Its more than just putting a pickup shoe in the middle.

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
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My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline franciscohg  
#11 Posted : 24 July 2017 21:18:43(UTC)
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franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,268
Location: Patagonia
oh, but not much more, just connect the pickup shoe to the red in the decoder and then since wheels are isolated you need to solder both cables from wheels pickup of both sides to get a proper ground.
Converting AC to DC is much more complicated since wheels are not isolated, then you have get DC wheelsets or make the isolation by yourself if those sets are not available for a particular loco.....Just another advantage to run AC ( three rail ) locosBigGrin
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 24 July 2017 21:20:00(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Brakeman Go to Quoted Post
Not sure, but I bet The wheel sets on Trix locos follow NEM standard, not Märklin. This means smaller flanges and different inner distance between the wheels, 14.3mm with NEM and 14.0mm with Märklin.
There are models that share the same wheelsets between Märklin and Trix, e.g. the TRAXX Hobby models.
Wheel spacing may be different, but sometimes it is the same.
Wheel flanges may be different, but sometimes they are the same.


Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
So the decoder/electronics may well be different too.
With Märklin, only the decoder firmware may be different. With Roco and other brands the decoders are the same.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Then there is the need for DC (Trix) to have the left side and right side wheels electrically insulated.
No problem with plastic axles that work for two-rail (Trix) and three-rail (Märklin) models.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 25 July 2017 14:48:39(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Brakeman Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Wikkedy86 Go to Quoted Post
So one can expect that steam engines are equiped with full metal wheels, and not metal wheels with ugly plastic spokes?
Trix locos can be expected to have a plastic insulation between axle and wheel on one side.

Trix locos can be expected to have fewer traction tyres...


Also Trix American models had RP25 wheels with small flanges, which give trouble on M -track turnouts.

Not sure, but I bet The wheel sets on Trix locos follow NEM standard, not Märklin. This means smaller flanges and different inner distance between the wheels, 14.3mm with NEM and 14.0mm with Märklin.

Regards,
Juha


There were some Trix models that were sold with the specific claim they had RP25 wheel sets. They were US prototype wagons.

I don't recall if any US prototype locos were ever sold claiming RP25 wheels.
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Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 25 July 2017 16:02:03(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I don't recall if any US prototype locos were ever sold claiming RP25 wheels.
The Big Boy was available with RP 25 wheels and standard wheels - and maybe also other classes.

IIRC the freight cars and Big Boys with RP 25 wheels also came with Kadee couplers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
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