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steventrain		#1 Posted : 21 July 2017 16:30:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		I notice most of CS3plus is now reduced price, Did Marklin scrap 10% discount policy? RRP 799EUR - Price now between 660 and 670 EUR (719 last year). Lokshop price 666 EUR.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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H0		#2 Posted : 22 July 2017 08:16:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: steventrain Did Marklin scrap 10% discount policy? Märklin has been reminded by the German anti-trust agency that such price control is illegal. Problem remains that some dealers show lower prices after login.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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clapcott		#3 Posted : 24 July 2017 02:15:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		I live in the hope that it is market forces at work ... Buyers have realized that the CS3Plus either ... - doesn't warrant the distinction of a CS3 - doesn't warrant an upgrade of a CS2 and are voting with their (closed) wallets. It is a bit unusual to have a price drop without first trying to "move product" by way of starter set bundles. Maybe there is a glimmer, that it is run-out time and they are going dust off the CS2 case & buttons for 2018 New Items CS3 Beta 2
		Peter
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MaerklinLife		#4 Posted : 24 July 2017 05:24:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		It is probably just the dealers competing in a market that is being destroyed by discounts that go close to what the dealer actually makes on the product. I don't think that this is any sign that they are not selling well. The RRP is still the same as ever.
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franciscohg		#5 Posted : 24 July 2017 15:53:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,273 Location: Patagonia		Hi, i think they just want to get rid of a kind of useless piece of hardware. Other than Clubs, who wants to spend extra money just for the ability of connect more CS? At least, i dont even think about it. On the other side, the CS minus is definitevely in my wish list.
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Minok		#6 Posted : 24 July 2017 21:19:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: franciscohg Other than Clubs, who wants to spend extra money just for the ability of connect more CS? At least, i dont even think about it. Children at home? 6m 14s mark. ?t=6m14s There is more than just the ability to connect to other Central Stations involved in the Plus difference - one should choose the version matches up with the interconnect requirements one has.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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franciscohg		#7 Posted : 24 July 2017 23:38:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,273 Location: Patagonia		All that wonderful setup can be done with just a CS3, capabilities are the same, the only difference with a CS3 plus is that you can add another ( another command station???? ) CS3 or CS3 plus. Does really anybody needs that amount of central stations? i dont think so, and if you do, perhaps it is wiser to change to PC control. When i get my CS3 i will keep my CS2 but just because i already have it. There will be 4 controls knobs, plus the MS1s, plus the MS2s and all the phones and tablets i want. I still dont think that the 100-150 euro extra are worth for just the extra ability to have 2 CS3 (or more) working together Regards
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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MaerklinLife		#8 Posted : 25 July 2017 06:04:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: franciscohg I still dont think that the 100-150 euro extra are worth for just the extra ability to have 2 CS3 (or more) working together Do you use S88? If yes, you still need the S88 LINK because only the CS3 Plus has connections for S88. The CS3 does not. There are some differences in the CS2 hardware, which may not allow you to connect your CS2 to a CS3. The CS3 Plus does not have that limitation. You can use the output of the CS3 Plus as a booster output. So there are more differences than just the ability to connect with more central stations. Personally, I believe that Märklin sells more CS3 Plus's than CS3's.
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franciscohg		#9 Posted : 25 July 2017 06:38:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,273 Location: Patagonia		I already run L88 with my 60215, no CS3+ for me.
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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H0		#10 Posted : 25 July 2017 08:06:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife There are some differences in the CS2 hardware, which may not allow you to connect your CS2 to a CS3. The CS3 Plus does not have that limitation. You can connect any CS2 to the CS3. The differences in hardware matter only when it comes to using the internal booster of the CS2. The booster of early CS2 is like 60173. The booster of later CS2 is like 60174. And now comes the aspect I do not understand: the booster of the CS3 is like the 60173, the booster of the CS3+ is like the 60174. And you can only have one "60173" connected to the track without issues. The 60173 can be swapped for a 60174 for free. I thought this problem was solved, but then they bring the new CS3 with the same crippled hardware. Märklin have a clear system: make it as confusing as possible.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Goofy		#11 Posted : 25 July 2017 08:55:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		The question is if the prices are fair and correct. Some shop store present sugar prices as standard price and present next side discount price. What ever Märklin present prices but it is fair and correct numbers? How much does it really cost by produce CS3plus?
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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MaerklinLife		#12 Posted : 25 July 2017 15:52:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: H0 You can connect any CS2 to the CS3. The differences in hardware matter only when it comes to using the internal booster of the CS2 Oh? Really? I was under the impression that CS2 hardware version 3.x would not connect to the CS3 (60226).
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H0		#13 Posted : 25 July 2017 15:57:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Oh? Really? Even articles in the German Märklin Magazin say so. So if you just need two more throttles or a keyboard for accessories then any CS2 will do.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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MaerklinLife		#14 Posted : 25 July 2017 16:15:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Oh? Really? Even articles in the German Märklin Magazin say so. So if you just need two more throttles or a keyboard for accessories then any CS2 will do. According to this Märklin Magazin I get another impression. But I might be misreading it. https://www.maerklin.de/...rklin_Digital_MM_1_2.pdf https://www.maerklin.de/...men-specials-und-serien/ (Neue Dimension part 1 and 2) The table at the bottom of page number 31. CS3 and CS2 version 3.x is a no go.
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H0		#15 Posted : 25 July 2017 16:30:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife According to this Märklin Magazin I get another impression. But I might be misreading it. https://www.maerklin.de/...rklin_Digital_MM_1_2.pdf See page 30 near the bottom: "All diese Einschränkungen kommen nur dann zum Tragen, wenn die jeweiligen Endstufen dieser Geräte für die Versorgung verschiedener Versorgungsabschnitte auf der Anlage eingesetzt werden" These restrictions only apply when the boosters are used for one layout. And this problem can be avoided by using one booster (e.g. CS2) for turnouts only and one booster (e.g. CS3) for track only. Also see the next sentence: "Werden weitere Geräte der CS2 mit Hardwareversion vor 4.x nur als reine Bediengeräte genutzt, ist auch diese Konstellation kein Problem." Old CS2 used as controllers only are no problem. It is the booster output that imposes restrictions - and to some extent you can work around these limitations. Or simply do not use the booster output.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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MaerklinLife		#16 Posted : 25 July 2017 16:45:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		Okay thanks. Confusing... but thanks anyway.
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franciscohg		#17 Posted : 25 July 2017 19:27:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,273 Location: Patagonia		Originally Posted by: Goofy The question is if the prices are fair and correct. Some shop store present sugar prices as standard price and present next side discount price. What ever Märklin present prices but it is fair and correct numbers? How much does it really cost by produce CS3plus? Oh, i think it is better not to even think about it in any piece of hardware you buy these days.... But i can assure you that a couple of extra connectors and extra chips does not cost 150 euro.... Yet another bad marketing strategy of Mother M? Or change of plans in the middle of the way? I dont think so, life span of 60173 was so short and happens so many years ago that i cannot think of early CS3 PCB designs.... Regards
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Minok		#18 Posted : 25 July 2017 21:37:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: franciscohg I already run L88 with my 60215, no CS3+ for me. Right, so you already have all of the equipment of L88 and everything else on your layout, so for you there is no benefit to a CS3+. But that doesn't mean there is no value to anyone else getting one. Others may well see a good deal and simplicity in the setup and components by opting for a CS3+. If you, for example, are building a layout and don't have any older gear at all. Or if you run your home layout and have a module you bring to the club and play in the club layout by also bringing your CS to the meeting.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Minok		#19 Posted : 25 July 2017 21:41:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: Goofy How much does it really cost by produce CS3plus? That depends. There is the incremental cost to manufacture a brand new CS3plus, and that is likely almost if not identical to that of the CS3. But the real costs includes all of the product development as well, and it could well be that some of that price difference we see is the amortization of the development costs for integrating the S88 into the system. There is a break-even point that Märklin must reach with the CS3 and CS3plus sales before they actually start making any money from them... the initial sales are all still part of the net loss on the new product. I have no idea how many need to be sold before they start actually earning an overall profit from the product.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Thewolf		#20 Posted : 25 July 2017 21:49:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Hi guys Personnally I don't need CS3 or CS3+, because I use CS2, S88 and Itrain (software PC) To buy a CS3 more would be a whim Thewolf
		Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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franciscohg		#21 Posted : 25 July 2017 21:53:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,273 Location: Patagonia		Originally Posted by: Minok Originally Posted by: franciscohg I already run L88 with my 60215, no CS3+ for me. Right, so you already have all of the equipment of L88 and everything else on your layout, so for you there is no benefit to a CS3+. But that doesn't mean there is no value to anyone else getting one. Others may well see a good deal and simplicity in the setup and components by opting for a CS3+. If you, for example, are building a layout and don't have any older gear at all. Or if you run your home layout and have a module you bring to the club and play in the club layout by also bringing your CS to the meeting. That is why i wrote in the first place that for Clubs a CS3+ MAY be better. As for simplicity, the CS3 offers the same simplicity of connecting all peripherals trough the CAN Bus, in fact the CS3+ is the unit that assumes that you have old gear by having an old style S88 connector
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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clapcott		#22 Posted : 25 July 2017 22:11:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: franciscohg Originally Posted by: Minok Originally Posted by: franciscohg I already run L88 with my 60215, no CS3+ for me. Right, so you already have all of the equipment of L88 and everything else on your layout, so for you there is no benefit to a CS3+. But that doesn't mean there is no value to anyone else getting one. Others may well see a good deal and simplicity in the setup and components by opting for a CS3+. If you, for example, are building a layout and don't have any older gear at all. Or if you run your home layout and have a module you bring to the club and play in the club layout by also bringing your CS to the meeting. That is why i wrote in the first place that for Clubs a CS3+ MAY be better. As for simplicity, the CS3 offers the same simplicity of connecting all peripherals trough the CAN Bus, in fact the CS3+ is the unit that assumes that you have old gear by having an old style S88 connector Correction: the CS3+(60216) supports 1 bus of the NEW S88 type (60881/60882) ONLY - RJ45 connector underneath So, in fact, this is another reason for choosing the CS3(60226) over the CS3+(60216) - because , to offer ROI on your older S88s (60880,60881) you need to buy a L88 (60883) <and 6636* PS> anyway, so why waste money duplicating. Noting that the L88 has far more versatility and capability Conversely , if you already have a CS2 then you may use its legacy, S88 port - so a CS3(60226) is fine
		Peter
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franciscohg		#23 Posted : 25 July 2017 22:59:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,273 Location: Patagonia		yes, you are right, i forgot it since apart of the L88 i have a couple of LDT modules wich have dual ports.
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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