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Offline Donb  
#1 Posted : 04 May 2017 18:18:43(UTC)
Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Hi,

I am in the process of studying signals, and am considering for my first signal to try the Viessmann 4011 and 5221 combination.
My question relates to the choice of switch tracks, the Viesmann 6840 reed switch and the Marklin 24994 . If I use the 24994 then I must connect the accessory transformer and track power common leads. I understand why, but is this good practice?
I am leaning towards using the 6840 and keeping the two common lines separate.
I have seen comments through search about keeping the grounds separate to avoid problems?
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 04 May 2017 21:27:21(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
I use a common ground for Track digital current, 16VAC accessory power, 12V DC accessory power, signal modules and signals.
http://cabin-layout.blog...ltage-visualization.html

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline clapcott  
#3 Posted : 05 May 2017 02:47:17(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
... If I use the 24994 then I must connect the accessory transformer and track power common leads. ...


Not strictly true.
Unlike the M-Track equivalent (with metal roadbed) the 24994 has a detachable return wire.
This is connected to the track "0" by default but can be unplugged and isolated.

As to utilising the common ground (rail) anyway then, as already mentioned this may (and is) generally be done without problems.

However, For Sensor controlled (digital) implementations rather than direct (Analogue) wiring to the signal,
this also implies your sensor unit has its ground reference connected to the same circuit.

Should you have multiple booster sections with technology akin to the 60212(CS1), 60173(Booster), 60213(CS2 early hardware) and have adhered to the guidelines not to use a common ground for these items, then you are better off running a separate Sensor (S88) return wire/bus.

As noted above, the 24994 has a discrete wire for the micro-switch return circuit.
Personally I would make use of it, and keep my sensor wires away from the power circuit
Peter
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 05 May 2017 08:22:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Should you have multiple booster sections with technology akin to the 60212(CS1), 60173(Booster), 60213(CS2 early hardware) and have adhered to the guidelines not to use a common ground for these items, then you are better off running a separate Sensor (S88) return wire/bus.
You can have a common ground between 60212 and the boosters. You cannot have common ground for 60213, older 60214, and 60173 if there is more than one device of that kind.
I don't recall ever seeing a document that disallows common ground between 60212 and the boosters. Well, the 60172 never shipped, but ECoSBoost does not have such requirements.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Johnvr  
#5 Posted : 05 May 2017 09:25:38(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I use a common ground for Track digital current, 16VAC accessory power, 12V DC accessory power, signal modules and signals.
http://cabin-layout.blog...ltage-visualization.html



Dale,

I have often wondered about this.

In my mind, the voltages would all be added together to get the gross voltage.
So, when you have a positive 18vAC plus 12vDC you get a surge of 30v for that moment in time.
And when the alternating goes negative 18vAC plus 12vDC you get a net of -6v for that moment in time.
But from what I have seen, this is not the result which one observes with the eye.
(I don't have an oscilloscope to measure the result more accurately)

Previously, I had connected a 12vDC circuit for the Circuit Tracks to a Timing Chip which I made, and connected the ground to the 18vAC Brown Track Ground.
So I was running 18vAC in the track and 12vDC in the chip both through the common ground of the rail.
After a while, I disconnected that because I wasn't sure whether it was such a good idea.
(Clapcott's note of course now makes me realize that I could have adjusted the wire under the circuit track - thanks buddy !!)

Regards,BigGrin
john
Offline PJMärklin  
#6 Posted : 05 May 2017 09:26:15(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,211
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I use a common ground for Track digital current, 16VAC accessory power, 12V DC accessory power, signal modules and signals.


Same here, except the 12v is also AC, and also same common ground(rail) for analogue current via overhead.


Regards,

PJ
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 05 May 2017 09:39:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
In my mind, the voltages would all be added together to get the gross voltage.
Depends on the wiring.
You have a common ground. Nothing adds up when you connect the consumers between a live wire and the common ground.
The adding effect comes when you connect consumers between two live wires if both power supplies have a common ground.
People normally do not use this.

A simple application: connect a consumer between red and yellow of a Märklin transformer if you need voltages in the range 0 through 4 V. But 0 V are in the right position of the dial!
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline DaleSchultz  
#8 Posted : 05 May 2017 14:55:44(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
yes as Tom said, the non-ground wire of the different circuits are NOT connected together. Only the ground is common.

Your house shares a ground between all the power sockets and lights, but the circuits all happen to be the same Voltage.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
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