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Offline Robert Davies  
#1 Posted : 18 April 2017 01:32:09(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
I make extensive use of the route (memory) function in the CS2 whereby triggering a route can cause a number of points to switch to the required positions. Observation tells me that where you do this all the points are sent a command to switch even if they are already set in the correct position. This is going to cause unnecessary 'wear' on the point operating unit, particularly if you use motor-driven or servo-driven points rather than solenoid operated ones.

Question: Is there a way from preventing the CS2 from addressing point motors where the points are already in the correct position for the route being set?

Thanks in anticipation.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 18 April 2017 01:54:01(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Robert Davies Go to Quoted Post
This is going to cause unnecessary 'wear' on the point operating unit, particularly if you use motor-driven or servo-driven points rather than solenoid operated ones.

What extra wear are you think of?

Solenoids with end cut off will not experience this.
Most (a lot) of the motor or solenoid driven mechanisms are designed for constant power to keep tension on the tongues (this is particularly desirable in the 2 rail aspect of the hobby if this is the means of getting power to the tongue)


Quote:

Question: Is there a way from preventing the CS2 from addressing point motors where the points are already in the correct position for the route being set?

If your turnout mechanism provide a state feedback, detectable via a S88, then you could get elaborate with the use of the CS2 Memory "conditional" aspect - but this would quickly become very long winded - and a bugger to maintain.


Personally I have no issue with a turnout being re-driven

Peter
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Robert Davies  
#3 Posted : 18 April 2017 13:14:27(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Hello Peter

Thanks for your prompt reply.

My point motors are Viessmann 4554 and I can hear their high-pitched whirring noise every time a route is set, even if they are already in the correct position, so it seems wise to avoid them having to run their little motors if it is not necessary.

However, because I use 4554's, I am in the happy position that they do provide feedback, and I have wired it up, and it does go back (indirectly) to the CS2 via s88 modules, so please continue with your helpful advice. I have never been able to get my head around the 'condition' functions of routes - I have tried experimenting with them in another scenario but I never succeeded in making them have any useful effect - so your advice would be much appreciated.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
Offline Danlake  
#4 Posted : 16 June 2017 09:13:44(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Originally Posted by: Robert Davies Go to Quoted Post
I have never been able to get my head around the 'condition' functions of routes - I have tried experimenting with them in another scenario but I never succeeded in making them have any useful effect - so your advice would be much appreciated.


Hi Peter,

In any type of automation (whether be PC controlled software or CS2/CS3) you sometimes need an extra condition to be valid before executing the command. A bit like :do this but only if this condition is valid".

For more complicated software you may have even "and" "or" functions and you can then program very advance scripts (almost unlimited).

As you are already familiar with, the memory function will activate various commands when a sensor is triggered (you e.g. use it to switch turn outs). But command could also be to switch off/on power to section of tracks via K84 decoders, switch signals, and with the new CS2 software upgrade also various locomotive commands (speed commands, sound the whistle etc.).

In CS2 the Ext button for memory route instructs the CS2 to only activate the command if the condition of another trigger is either on or off.

So a simple script could be on a mainline with a siding that merges. One train is on the mainline and one train is on the branch line. A third train has already cleared this area and is in the next block ahead of them. This third train would normally be the trigger (i.e. it passes a contact and when this is active the memory function start) to release the other trains waiting to join the fun. But somehow we need to make a script to avoid that both trains starts up and collides. So one of the script would be: set signal to green on branch line, but only if contact on mainline (where a train sometimes waits) is showing unoccupied.

Similar with a simple station with 2 platforms. A train approaches the station and trigger a contact. Make one script to enter platform 1 but only if platform 2 is occupied. If platform 2 is not occupied it will ignore the script (condition not met), and train will continue unto platform 2.

Hope this helps.

Automation is lots of fun and only your imagination sets the limits. It can be beneficial to write the scripts on a piece of paper in small tables to work out the logic.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Danlake
Offline Robert Davies  
#5 Posted : 16 June 2017 12:16:09(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Hello Brgds Lasse

Thanks for your contribution to this discussion. I have lots of what you call scripts built into my control logic but they are all implemented using relays because I understand how to do that. What I don't know is how to do exactly what you are suggesting using the CS2. Can you tell me what settings you would use to implement either of the scenarios you put in your post please?

Thanks.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
Offline Danlake  
#6 Posted : 16 June 2017 13:19:52(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Robert,

Let's try the simple setup with a train approaching a station that has 2 platforms. If there is already a train at platform 1 you want the approaching train go to platform 2 and stop at a red signal.

First off make sure the CS2 is updated to higher software than 4.0 (else you wont have the advanced memory functions etc.).

The trigger to kick off everything is in a block before the station (lets call it approach block)

1. First create a memory route by going to edit mode
2. Give the memory route a name
3. Insert the S88 feedback port number of the "approach block"
4. Specify whether the script shall run when a train enter or leaves (i.e. going from a state off to on or from on to off).
5. Drag the turnout for platform 2 into the memory event line (make sure its state are correct - either red or green)
6. Drag signal at platform 2 into the memory event line (make sure its state are correct - either red or green)

Under normal circumstances the above script will take place each time a train enters the approach block. Now we want to put a condition into the script by:

1. Press the button "Ext" - this will open up the advanced menu of memory route
2. Under conditions you add the S88 feedback number for platform 1 with state being occupied

Now try and activate the route to automatic mode (routes can either be manual or automatic).

I have uploaded recent Marklin digital newsletter (from the Marklin Digital Club). There are some really good info on memory configuration etc.

28.2.pdf (1,021kb) downloaded 58 time(s).

28.3.pdf (635kb) downloaded 30 time(s).

Brgds Lasse

Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Danlake
Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 16 June 2017 17:10:36(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

Solenoids with end cut off will not experience this.
Most (a lot) of the motor or solenoid driven mechanisms are designed for constant power to keep tension on the tongues (this is particularly desirable in the 2 rail aspect of the hobby if this is the means of getting power to the tongue)



Not really truth.
If you have pulse variable in the turnout decoder you can program turnout decoder before next motor moves.
Tortoise motor do have power feeder but turns on when the turnout decoder switch on.
The difference is just length of the time.
Magnet motor needs about 250 ms while turnout motor needs between 2,5-3 s.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Robert Davies  
#8 Posted : 19 June 2017 18:21:11(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Robert,

Let's try the simple setup with a train approaching a station that has 2 platforms. If there is already a train at platform 1 you want the approaching train go to platform 2 and stop at a red signal.

First off make sure the CS2 is updated to higher software than 4.0 (else you wont have the advanced memory functions etc.).

The trigger to kick off everything is in a block before the station (lets call it approach block)

1. First create a memory route by going to edit mode
2. Give the memory route a name
3. Insert the S88 feedback port number of the "approach block"
4. Specify whether the script shall run when a train enter or leaves (i.e. going from a state off to on or from on to off).
5. Drag the turnout for platform 2 into the memory event line (make sure its state are correct - either red or green)
6. Drag signal at platform 2 into the memory event line (make sure its state are correct - either red or green)

Under normal circumstances the above script will take place each time a train enters the approach block. Now we want to put a condition into the script by:

1. Press the button "Ext" - this will open up the advanced menu of memory route
2. Under conditions you add the S88 feedback number for platform 1 with state being occupied

Now try and activate the route to automatic mode (routes can either be manual or automatic).

I have uploaded recent Marklin digital newsletter (from the Marklin Digital Club). There are some really good info on memory configuration etc.

28.2.pdf (1,021kb) downloaded 58 time(s).

28.3.pdf (635kb) downloaded 30 time(s).

Brgds Lasse

Many thanks. I will give this approach a try and see if I can use it to solve my problem.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
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