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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 16 April 2017 02:00:57(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Hello, Everyone:

Just for fun, I wondered if anyone knows if it is difficult to run two separate locos one in front of the other - to pull wagons. I believe this is called a "consist". (Correct me, please, if I am wrong as to the terminology.)

Somehow, I think it's a bit of a nightmare. Am I too pessimistic? BigGrin

Thanks.
Offline xxup  
#2 Posted : 16 April 2017 02:10:05(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,464
Location: Australia
It is easy to do, but it does work best if they are the same loco (i.e. Two Re460s both with C-Sine motors). That said, WinDigipet makes it possible to mix anything as long as the locos have been calibrated to match speed with throttle position.
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline baggio  
#3 Posted : 16 April 2017 02:21:30(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
It is easy to do, but it does work best if they are the same loco (i.e. Two Re460s both with C-Sine motors).That said, WinDigipet makes it possible to mix anything as long as the locos have been calibrated to match speed with throttle position.


And you call that "easy'? Scared BigGrin
Offline foumaro  
#4 Posted : 16 April 2017 05:46:42(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
It is not very wise to run differerent locos this way.They have to accelerate,braking and running with exactly the same way,which is very difficult,maybe impossible.It is possible to burn a decoder or damage a motor.
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Offline baggio  
#5 Posted : 16 April 2017 06:02:39(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Watch this and enjoy:

Luigi's helix and consist
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Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 16 April 2017 17:10:54(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
If running modern locomotives with decoders, it is possible to adjust the acceleration, deceleration and top speed so that two locomotives can be run in tandem. With some decoders, it is also possible to set the digital address as a "consist" or "MU" (Multiple Unit) where the assigned locomotives respond to the same commands.

It can be problematic when combining a model with sound with a model that has no sound, as the sound module affects the acceleration, deceleration differently.

Most Maerklin models can be run in tandem. The classic Maerklin models did not suffer too much if one was working a little harder than the other. The problems occurred when the tandem would enter a signal/dead zone and the lead lok would stop while the second would keep pushing. The most significant problem that I have ever seen with tandem operation and classic Maerklin was that in some instances, instead of activating the reverse pulse of both loks, it would cause either one or both of the loks to drive at high speed, causing a risk of derailment or collision. This is largely averted with the new decoders, but they still recommend that the train be stopped when the reverse command is given.
On rarer occasions, it can occur that the reverse pulse can cause only one of two analog loks in a MU set up to reverse.

Here are some common tandem operations that can be found today:

DB 185 + 185 (Heavy Freight) seen in Germany, Austria and Switzerland
DB 218 + 218 (Freight and Passenger) seen in Germany
ES64F4 (189) ES64U3 (182) (Heavy Freight) seen in Germany, Austria and Switzerland
SBB Re 6/6 + Re 4/4 (Heavy Freight) Switzerland
SBB Re 4/4II + Re 4/4II (Heavy Freight or Passenger) Switzerland
SBB Re 482 + 482 (Heavy Freight) Switzerland (could also be Re 474 or 484)
SBB Re 6/6 + Crossrail Re 436 Switzerland (SBB used Crossrail Loks periodically)
BLS Re 465 + Re 465 (Heavy Freight) Switzerland
BLS 485 + 486 (Heavy Freight/ROLA) Switzerland
BLS 485 + DB 185 (Heavy Freight) Switzerland (BLS and DB Cargo used to work together)
OBB 1016/1116/1216 (Heavy Freight/Passenger) Austria

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 17 April 2017 22:24:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline DaleSchultz  
#7 Posted : 16 April 2017 20:31:13(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
My software sends out speed steps so that the locos travel at pretty much the same speed.
Better decoders allow better speed control.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline KingMarklin  
#8 Posted : 18 April 2017 22:33:28(UTC)
KingMarklin

United States   
Joined: 10/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Star, Idaho, USA
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Watch this and enjoy:

Luigi's helix and consist


Love seeing two or more locomotives working like that. Otherwise another easy solution is to buy the sets of tandem locos whenever available. I know a guy who buys non functioning locomotives and removes the old motors, etc and runs them as a consist. Granted, it might add a little extra weight to your overall load.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#9 Posted : 19 April 2017 01:24:26(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,683
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: KingMarklin Go to Quoted Post

Love seeing two or more locomotives working like that. Otherwise another easy solution is to buy the sets of tandem locos whenever available.

I bought the 2014 crocodile set of one brown Era II and one green Era III so that I would have a well matched pair of locos to run in a consist. Cool Besides, how can you ever have too many crocs?

They have identical electronics and mechanicals and when I use the consist feature in my CS2 they get the same commands and they run perfectly together. The only issue I have seen is when the operating sounds are on, one loco occasionally starts a little before the other. But this is just a very small percentage of the time and never with the sound off. Most of time they run like the four motor/12 axle/24 drive wheel pulling monster that they are.

Before I bought mine I saw a youTube video of that pair pulling the longest beer train that I have ever seen and I knew that I was in love. BigGrin

Here is the video if you are interested!
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline GlennM  
#10 Posted : 19 April 2017 12:21:17(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,886
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: KingMarklin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Watch this and enjoy:

Luigi's helix and consist


Love seeing two or more locomotives working like that. Otherwise another easy solution is to buy the sets of tandem locos whenever available. I know a guy who buys non functioning locomotives and removes the old motors, etc and runs them as a consist. Granted, it might add a little extra weight to your overall load.


It is also worth noting that Marklin have also made quite a few 'double header' locomotive sets some of which are permanently wired together, others are two separate loco units - 1 powered and 1 dummy.






With sets like the BR151 'Langer Heinrich' coal train the second loco is ready to receive an additional motor (which is what I have done to mine) making the two locos great for a long consist you may wish to run.





BR
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline hvc  
#11 Posted : 19 April 2017 13:47:24(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 411
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Control theory says that the best solution is to have one decoder running two motors - as in the post above.

However, it does work fine where you have two separate locos coupled together, but only where the two locomotives have the same motor, the same decoder and the same settings.

Before I run two locomotives together I test the compatibility. First I place them in an "MU Consist" in the Central Station, and then I place them both on the layout about 10 cm apart (ie not coupled together!). Then I run them around the layout to double check that I have the settings right. If I do, then they stay pretty much the same distance apart as they travel around the layout.

Then I couple them together, hook up 30 or 40 wagons, and away I go!

Of course this all assumes digital. I remember the days of my youth, where I could just throw two locos on the track and turn the knob on the transformer. Oh wait - I still have all the stuff to do that sitting in the cupboard :-)

Herman
- Herman
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Offline KingMarklin  
#12 Posted : 19 April 2017 17:51:55(UTC)
KingMarklin

United States   
Joined: 10/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Star, Idaho, USA
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KingMarklin Go to Quoted Post

Love seeing two or more locomotives working like that. Otherwise another easy solution is to buy the sets of tandem locos whenever available.

I bought the 2014 crocodile set of one brown Era II and one green Era III so that I would have a well matched pair of locos to run in a consist. Cool Besides, how can you ever have too many crocs?

They have identical electronics and mechanicals and when I use the consist feature in my CS2 they get the same commands and they run perfectly together. The only issue I have seen is when the operating sounds are on, one loco occasionally starts a little before the other. But this is just a very small percentage of the time and never with the sound off. Most of time they run like the four motor/12 axle/24 drive wheel pulling monster that they are.

Before I bought mine I saw a youTube video of that pair pulling the longest beer train that I have ever seen and I knew that I was in love. BigGrin

Here is the video if you are interested!


Nice video. I have to say, that's the longest beer train I ever saw!
Offline Rinus  
#13 Posted : 20 April 2017 09:57:45(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
I have got several locomotives running together in double traction. I can highly recommend it

Roco
EU43-EU43
Rh1110-Rh1110 both with sound
Rh1020-Rh1020 both with sound
Rh1044-Rh1044 only one powered, one dummy
BR185-BR185

Marklin
Rh1012-Rh1012

From my experience I can say that:
- its important to have two identical locomotives in terms of engine, transmission and decoder
- if you want sound then equip them both
- if one loco has a capacitator or other source of external enegy supply, then add it to the otherone as well
- use the same traction tires on both
- its easy to couple the loco's on your central station or by pc

I am thinking about addng conducting couplers between the loco's so a sudden loss of power on one loco will be prevented.

Hope this will help.

Rinus

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Offline hxmiesa  
#14 Posted : 24 April 2017 16:59:08(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
I am running a consist of 2 DSB MY´s.
They are analogue.
Although they are the same model, each works slightly different than the other.
I found that the perfect result is having the "fastest" one running in front, pulling the slower one.
I also connected the two pickup sliders with a small cable between the locos. This of course makes it diffuclt to break up the consist, but removes any problems if encountering dead sections on the track.


I would be interested in reading about combinations with a locomotive in each end of the train!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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