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Offline NewMB  
#1 Posted : 02 February 2017 17:52:43(UTC)
NewMB

Germany   
Joined: 26/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 668
Location: Erftstadt
Hi guys,

Need your help please.

On my layout I have several "power areas", in total 5 of them (incl CS2 being one) all done by 60174 Boosters all hooked upto the CS2 via a Terminal.

Some time ago, I started hearing a "buzzing" noise in one particular area, in fact right around where my "yellow" area changes over to the "Blue" area. Sometimes it went away. Lately it has started to come back more often than not. The CS2 has also started to loose contact with the Booster in the Blue area but loks would still run without any problems whatsoever.

The other day while running the beautiful Rae train-set, the train decided to just simply stop around that area that was buzzing. Every attempt to restart was met with a big "no chance". Restarting CS2 etc, nothing helped. Removed the lok back in the cabinet and didn't think anymore of it.

Yesterday, one of my Swedish models Rc3 (37418) decided to do exactly the same. Buzzing was more pronounced this time around.

Disconnected the Booster where the buzzing was and buzzing stops. Reconnect, buzzing gone and the CS2 could find the booster straight away. Unfortunately the 37418 refused to be re-discovered by the CS2 and this lok is an Mfx-Lok.

Do you reckon both loks are kaputt or just simply the Booster that needs replacing (meaning that the booster may be the culprit playing havoc with the loks)?

Grateful for any input.

Thanks.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 02 February 2017 18:12:35(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: NewMB Go to Quoted Post
Hi guys,

Need your help please.

On my layout I have several "power areas", in total 5 of them (incl CS2 being one) all done by 60174 Boosters all hooked upto the CS2 via a Terminal.

Some time ago, I started hearing a "buzzing" noise in one particular area, in fact right around where my "yellow" area changes over to the "Blue" area. Sometimes it went away. Lately it has started to come back more often than not. The CS2 has also started to loose contact with the Booster in the Blue area but loks would still run without any problems whatsoever.

The other day while running the beautiful Rae train-set, the train decided to just simply stop around that area that was buzzing. Every attempt to restart was met with a big "no chance". Restarting CS2 etc, nothing helped. Removed the lok back in the cabinet and didn't think anymore of it.

Yesterday, one of my Swedish models Rc3 (37418) decided to do exactly the same. Buzzing was more pronounced this time around.

Disconnected the Booster where the buzzing was and buzzing stops. Reconnect, buzzing gone and the CS2 could find the booster straight away. Unfortunately the 37418 refused to be re-discovered by the CS2 and this lok is an Mfx-Lok.

Do you reckon both loks are kaputt or just simply the Booster that needs replacing (meaning that the booster may be the culprit playing havoc with the loks)?

Grateful for any input.

Thanks.


What do you mean by 'disconnect the booster'? If this means disconnect from the track then i would look along that track district for a dropped coupling or some other piece of metal that is acting as a high resistance short between the centre studs and a rail that is a low enough resistance connection for the booster to be close to current limit, but not low enough to indicate a short. Another possibility is is the transformer man enough to run the booster at its full power output? If it is not at least 60 watts, and probably more like 100 watts transformer then the noise you hear is probably the power supply going into current limit without the booster shutting down. A switch mode power supply can make a buzz noise in this state. Another way to diagnose this is to connect that track district to another booster instead and see if a different unit buzzes. If so the short circuit somewhere on the track is probably the problem.

If by 'disconnect the booster' you mean unplug from the terminal, then nothing is being proven, the booster is not turning on the track power because the cs2 is not commanding it to do so, so it is not attempting to drive into whatever is shorting. Leave the booster plugged into the terminal and disconnect the track to diagnose the problem.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline NewMB  
#3 Posted : 02 February 2017 19:02:45(UTC)
NewMB

Germany   
Joined: 26/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 668
Location: Erftstadt
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NewMB Go to Quoted Post
Hi guys,

Need your help please.

On my layout I have several "power areas", in total 5 of them (incl CS2 being one) all done by 60174 Boosters all hooked upto the CS2 via a Terminal.

Some time ago, I started hearing a "buzzing" noise in one particular area, in fact right around where my "yellow" area changes over to the "Blue" area. Sometimes it went away. Lately it has started to come back more often than not. The CS2 has also started to loose contact with the Booster in the Blue area but loks would still run without any problems whatsoever.

The other day while running the beautiful Rae train-set, the train decided to just simply stop around that area that was buzzing. Every attempt to restart was met with a big "no chance". Restarting CS2 etc, nothing helped. Removed the lok back in the cabinet and didn't think anymore of it.

Yesterday, one of my Swedish models Rc3 (37418) decided to do exactly the same. Buzzing was more pronounced this time around.

Disconnected the Booster where the buzzing was and buzzing stops. Reconnect, buzzing gone and the CS2 could find the booster straight away. Unfortunately the 37418 refused to be re-discovered by the CS2 and this lok is an Mfx-Lok.

Do you reckon both loks are kaputt or just simply the Booster that needs replacing (meaning that the booster may be the culprit playing havoc with the loks)?

Grateful for any input.

Thanks.


What do you mean by 'disconnect the booster'? If this means disconnect from the track then i would look along that track district for a dropped coupling or some other piece of metal that is acting as a high resistance short between the centre studs and a rail that is a low enough resistance connection for the booster to be close to current limit, but not low enough to indicate a short. Another possibility is is the transformer man enough to run the booster at its full power output? If it is not at least 60 watts, and probably more like 100 watts transformer then the noise you hear is probably the power supply going into current limit without the booster shutting down. A switch mode power supply can make a buzz noise in this state. Another way to diagnose this is to connect that track district to another booster instead and see if a different unit buzzes. If so the short circuit somewhere on the track is probably the problem.

If by 'disconnect the booster' you mean unplug from the terminal, then nothing is being proven, the booster is not turning on the track power because the cs2 is not commanding it to do so, so it is not attempting to drive into whatever is shorting. Leave the booster plugged into the terminal and disconnect the track to diagnose the problem.



Should I have explained it better....

The buzzing actually comes from this particular area of track when my yellow powersection meets the blue one. Not the booster, nor anywhere else on the track. Just this place.

By disconnecting the Booster I meant from powersupply. Buzzing stops. Reconnected it to power, buzzing gone and CS2 could suddenly find it. Usually CS2 finds the booster no problem on first startup but I have noticed that it "disconnects" from it after a while (buzzing then starts) or when I have pressed "STOP" on the CS2 and then pressed it again to get power back. I never disconnected the Booster from the Terminal/CS2.

An interesting fact is that is that whether buzzing or not, the lamp on the booster was very dim, so very low power request.

I have checked the track for any metal pieces etc laying around. Nothing.

All my boosters are connected to the 60VA Switched Power Supplies # 60061.

What is very entriguing is the fact that I have had two loks stop at the same place, never to work again, even on the test track on the CS2. The loks are both mfx loks and simply refuse to talk to the CS2 and vv.





Offline blid  
#4 Posted : 02 February 2017 19:24:30(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
It took me awhile to discover the field for power source. I think it is still not documented and unfortunately Marklin did set the default to the most powerful, 60101. The field is shown in the information tab with current, voltage and temperature – but only when you are in “process mode”, “configuration”, “blue screen”.

So if you haven’t set the power source you are using, it is probably set to 60101.

Maybe you have done this already but others may not know about this setting.
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by blid
Offline NewMB  
#5 Posted : 02 February 2017 20:35:01(UTC)
NewMB

Germany   
Joined: 26/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 668
Location: Erftstadt
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
It took me awhile to discover the field for power source. I think it is still not documented and unfortunately Marklin did set the default to the most powerful, 60101. The field is shown in the information tab with current, voltage and temperature – but only when you are in “process mode”, “configuration”, “blue screen”.

So if you haven’t set the power source you are using, it is probably set to 60101.

Maybe you have done this already but others may not know about this setting.



Thanks.

Yes, I have done this. Several times as it happens, but my CS2 seems to revert back to 60101 after a while. No idea why.

Made some tests just now.

1. Started everything up. No buzzing at all. Everything works like normal. My blue section (where the problem seems to be) has no turnouts are the power consumption is pretty much 0. Until a lok comes, just like it should be.

2. Provoked the sections by pressing STOP several times (this is how the buzzing has started in the past). No difference. As of now, the sections works great.

Good news, I found a spare 60174 Booster which means, in case I have to exchange it, I save about €199 (as this is how much Märklin say the new 60175 Booster costs).

Bad news re loks.....

I have had a PM with suggestion to connect them on a different controller, ie MS. As I have C-Track and an MS1 laying around, I hooked it all up but to no avail. The MS can not talk to either my Rc 37418 nor the Rae 37547. Perhaps the MS1 was bad/kaputt? Nope. Another mfx lok connected just fine. Tried this very same (3rd) lok on the CS2, connected fine, meaning that both CS2 and MS1 works fine.

Time to send the Rc and Rae to Märklin for re-programming perhaps?


Offline French_Fabrice  
#6 Posted : 02 February 2017 21:17:24(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hi Patrik,

Some shots in the dark...

It may be the booster which is dying, or it may also be the 60061 power pack.

What is strange is this buzzing is coming from the track, and not from the booster or power pack itself Crying

Are you sure the "B" insulation between yellow and blue sections are correct ? Or maybe the track is bent a little ? No humidity/recent glue around that point/grass fiber with high electrostatic potential (I'm thinking about the grassmaster) ?

Good luck
Fabrice
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
Offline NewMB  
#7 Posted : 02 February 2017 22:24:16(UTC)
NewMB

Germany   
Joined: 26/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 668
Location: Erftstadt
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Hi Patrik,

Some shots in the dark...

It may be the booster which is dying, or it may also be the 60061 power pack.

What is strange is this buzzing is coming from the track, and not from the booster or power pack itself Crying

Are you sure the "B" insulation between yellow and blue sections are correct ? Or maybe the track is bent a little ? No humidity/recent glue around that point/grass fiber with high electrostatic potential (I'm thinking about the grassmaster) ?

Good luck
Fabrice



Hi Fabrice!

Thanks for that. Yes, it may be the Booster, however it worked flawless tonight. As it happens I have both a spare Booster and a spare 60061 Power Pack so easy to change and try.

Tomorrow I will have a closer look at both the track and the insulation. Perhaps its not good?

The best would be if the track is buzzing again so that I can start with all these suggestions. Feels funny to say this, but I hope it will!

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