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Offline bugsmasher  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2016 03:05:11(UTC)
bugsmasher

United States   
Joined: 07/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Michigan, Canton
Finally, on 18 Nov I received my Marklin CS3 Plus digital controller -- 9 1/2 months after placing the order and about 11 months after Marklin announced the product. Because the serial number of my unit is 1727, I suspect it is one of the earlier CS3s received in the United States. My dealer told me that he has 60 orders but has received only 3 CS3 Plus from Marklin. My hardware version is 03.03, and my software version is 1.0.0 (0). There is a firmware update on the Marklin website, but I haven't downloaded or installed it yet because I want to test the original software and problems have been reported with the update.

Readers of this review should understand my experience and equipment. I have about a dozen HO AC locomotives by Marklin, Piko, and Brawa, no permanent layout, and only a simple oval of start-up Marklin C track. Thus no boosters, signals, or decoder-controlled turnouts. Previously, I operated at most two trains using a Marklin Mobile Station 2. Most often, I operate my equipment on my club's (European Train Enthusiasts - Great Lakes Chapter) modular layout. Through that experience, I have gained basic familiarity with Marklin and digital controllers, including Marklin MS2 and CS2 and Intellibox. And locomotives and decoders of Piko and Brawa in addition to Marklin. But, at least so far this should be considered a fairly basic review.

I probably will never use the full capability of the CS3 Plus. I purchased the controller because I was attracted to the better interface and appearance compared to the MS 2 and because I liked the CS2s used by some members of my club. I do not plan to use the CS3 Plus on our club layout (unless completely electrically isolated from the club single controller and power supply) and never expect to use it with multiple controllers. But the CS 3 Plus will be well adequate for the signals and solenoid devices I hope to include in my yet to be constructed home layout. Discerning modelers will realize that the CS3 Plus represents overkill compared to the CS3 for my needs, but I chose to accept the extra cost ($150 US) to obtain maximum capability. More frugal others might legitimately prefer to purchase only the CS3.

Of course, I began by opening the box. The CS3 Plus arrives in an excellent hard styrofoam cradle but a less durable exterior box. Watch out, because despite some care I tore the box during unpacking. The durability of the exterior box is important to those of us who might transport the controller from place to place to be set up with a modular layout. For that kind of use I would purchase a hard case or box and carry the CS3 or CS3 Plus and styrofoam cradle within it. The styrofoam cradle is 15 1/8" L x 10" H x 6" D. A standard 21" or 22" aircraft suitcase would easily contain both controller and power supply. I use the Marklin 60065 120v 50 va power supply because I operate in the US. The CS3/CS3 Plus comes with two 39 3/8" (1 meter) feeder cables with red-brown wires, 4-pin plug to CS3/CS3 Plus, and spade ends for connection to Marklin C track -- one feeder cable for operation and one for an isolated programming track.

I followed the recommended startup procedure of first connecting the controller to the track layout, power supply to the controller, and finally the power supply plug to a home power receptacle. The CS3 Plus started as expected and first displayed a dialog box allowing a switch of display language from the factory default German to English. (I wonder what would happen if the CS3 Plus were started with no connection to any track, perhaps merely for editing of stored information, but I haven't had the courage to attempt that yet. What happens if that is done with a CS2?)

My CS3 Plus did NOT come with a detailed operation manual in ANY language, only a brief multi-language Setup and Tip guide together with instruction to download a detailed operation manual from www.maerklin.de/en. But the manual available from Marklin at this time is published only in German! I STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you download and read not only that manual but also the translation in English published on this forum BEFORE you start your CS3 or CS3 Plus! Had I not done so, I would have been lost. The Startup Assistants (help programs) that appear after choosing the display language are too brief. The initial choose-language dialog box allows (at bottom) a user to dispense with the Assistants at first startup, but I did not do so, chose instead to dispense with the Startup Assistants only after starting the second time.

Be sure to remove the protective plastic cover from the capacitative touch screen before beginning operation. Otherwise, the screen will not function. I began by using an 8 mm dia rubber-tip stylus but quickly found it did not function as well as a human finger. It will be interesting to see how the screen functions with a hard plastic stylus as used on the earlier CS2. Some users have complained that the icons are too small for their large fingers, but my hands are small enough to use touch by a human finger.

I then proceeded to load (register) several assorted locomotives into the controller starting with 3 Marklin direct-reading mfx loks, a Marklin non-mfx lok, followed by a Piko non-direct reading lok, and finally a Piko direct-reading lok. Several manufacturers, including Piko and Brawa and ESU, have been using direct-reading decoders that register automatically on Marklin controllers just like Marklin mfx decoders. The first lok was Marklin mfx 37098-1, the first of a set of two DB BR 85s. The second lok was Marklin mfx 37098-2. The third lok was Marklin mfx 37707, a VT 135 railcar. All three of these mfx/sound locomotives registered correctly just as the operating manual described. A few seconds after track was powered (stop bar deactivated after placing lok on track) a dialog box appeared indicating the decoder was being read and the lok was added to the locomotive list. All sounds and functions displayed and operated properly. The fourth lok was Marklin 39609, a non-mfx, non-sound BLS Re 465 "Lotschberg AlpTransit" for which decoder information was read from a locomotive card previously saved using a Marklin MS2. It too functioned properly. But there was no icon in the pre-installed Marklin database corresponding to this model and exterior paint scheme. Using the locomotive editing function, I substituted the icon of another Marklin BLS Re 465 (39606) but its paint scheme was different from my model. The fifth lok was Piko 59301-2, a non-mfx, non-sound DB ET 442/443 "Talent 2" EMU railcar set also loaded from locomotive card. It functioned properly. The sixth and last lok was Piko 51519, a DB BR 141 with sound and an ESU direct-reading M4 decoder. (M4 is ESU's acronym for the direct-reading decoder technology Marklin has trademarked as mfx.) This lok registered correctly directly from powered track, just like a Marklin mfx lok (as it had also automatically registered with my previous MS2). For both of the Piko loks I was able to find an icon in the Marklin database that resembled the model. The CS3/CS3 Plus lok editing function added the icons without changing to an incorrect locomotive name. Also, the CS3 Plus registered the non-mfx (Marklin and Piko) locomotives correctly (from locomotive cards) even though their addresses had ben changed from default 03 to other values.

The throttles and function displays operated properly just as the manual described. But I must confess a fondness for the former function keys alongside the display. I found that the throttles obscure other portions of the screen (such as the system and help keys at the top of the screen) when they are displayed. This interference can easily be avoided by "hiding"the throttle display(s) by pressing its (their) red "locomotive" icon(s) at the bottom of the throttle display(s). But arguably the throttle displays should be hidden when other parts of the display (e.g. track layout or editing) are being used.

Finally, I shut down the CS3 Plus, the first time by touching the shutdown icon that appears after touching the System key, and a second time by holding the Stop bar down for about 10 seconds. During shutdown, the CS3 displays a dialog box indicating it is shutting down and a brief black "login" screen (to what?) before complete shutdown. Everything stored or modified during the first loading/operating session rebooted properly after the second startup. After the first startup/shutdown, the CS3 must be started by tapping the Stop bar, after which first a black "Marklin" and then the most recent operating screen displays.

So, this review shows that the CS3 Plus registers and controls Marklin mfx, Marklin Motorola (MM), Piko Motorola (MM), and Piko direct-reading locomotives and decoders properly. More review to come later. There is a great college football game occurring on US TV as I type (and a great European soccer/football Dortmund-Bayern game earlier this afternoon while I was testing). Until later (bis spater)........
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Offline Minok  
#2 Posted : 22 November 2016 00:14:19(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Excellent review. Most useful was that the ESU M4 decoders registered just fine.

For transport, I'd not use the original boxes in any case, but specifically designed boxes from the likes of Pelican (eg 1485 Air Case )
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline bugsmasher  
#3 Posted : 22 November 2016 17:03:41(UTC)
bugsmasher

United States   
Joined: 07/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Michigan, Canton
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Excellent review. Most useful was that the ESU M4 decoders registered just fine.


Unfortunately, I must report that, at least for the ESU Loksound V 4.0 M4 decoder (Piko 56346), while the CS3 Plus automatically registered the decoder (like a Marklin mfx) it did NOT read addressable functions beyond F15. Thus the CS3 Plus appears to read only 16 addressable functions like the former MS2 and CS2. The Piko 56346 decoder contains 11 additional functions (mostly sounds) in F15-F26. Perhaps the CS3 would respond differently for a Marklin decoder or with updated software. In any event, this is a problem Marklin should address.
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 22 November 2016 17:13:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post
In any event, this is a problem Marklin should address.
That would be nice. But I am somewhat pessimistic.
I think the decoder will require a firmware upgrade to make this work.

With RailCom+ the decoder would register automatically with all available functions. It would be nice if Märklin added RailCom+ to the CS3. But once again I am somewhat pessimistic.

Better support for Piko locos would make the CS3+ more attractive for the two-rail market.
Limited support for Piko locos makes Piko locos less attractive for three-rail users and people will spend more money on Märklin locos. I'm afraid Märklin will prefer the latter.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline bugsmasher  
#5 Posted : 22 November 2016 20:13:09(UTC)
bugsmasher

United States   
Joined: 07/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Michigan, Canton
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post
In any event, this is a problem Marklin should address.
That would be nice. But I am somewhat pessimistic.
I think the decoder will require a firmware upgrade to make this work.


I assume that you mean the controller, not the decoder, will require a firmware upgrade. My review is based on the original CS3+ software.

Marklin 39911 Union Pacific "Challenger" purportedly has 29 addessable functions. It would be nice to hear what someone with both a CS3/CS3+ and 39911 has ACTUALLY experienced.

All is not lost. At least the ESU/Piko decoder was automatically read and its most important functions (motion and most sounds) can be controlled.BigGrin I have an ESU 31271 Class 66on order. I will post experience with that lok/decoder when received.

I will soon create and add my own track plan/layout to my CS3+. I will post results in this review.

Offline Minok  
#6 Posted : 22 November 2016 21:14:18(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
I'm guessing here that the way Märklin's decoders with more than 16 functions register/reveal those additional functions is in some protocol or naming way different than the first 16 functions, likely due to the need for backward compatibility with older technology, and that the ESU M4 decoder doesn't do it this way and thus those additional functions are not seen by the Märklin controller (CS3+ in this case). So an update to make the ESU M4 decoder act like Märklin expects for functions >16 would be the solution, as I see it much less likely that CS3 variants being made compatible with ESU decoders. But maybe the declining model RR industry folks will finally see some benefit of better cooperation across the board (one can hope).
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 22 November 2016 22:38:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post
In any event, this is a problem Marklin should address.
That would be nice. But I am somewhat pessimistic.
I think the decoder will require a firmware upgrade to make this work.


I assume that you mean the controller, not the decoder, will require a firmware upgrade. My review is based on the original CS3+ software.

Marklin 39911 Union Pacific "Challenger" purportedly has 29 addessable functions. It would be nice to hear what someone with both a CS3/CS3+ and 39911 has ACTUALLY experienced.

All is not lost. At least the ESU/Piko decoder was automatically read and its most important functions (motion and most sounds) can be controlled.BigGrin I have an ESU 31271 Class 66on order. I will post experience with that lok/decoder when received.

I will soon create and add my own track plan/layout to my CS3+. I will post results in this review.



The 39911 is not the first loco to ship from Marklin with more than 16 functions. The Insider Schienenbus has already shipped with more than 16 functions, where the challenger has yet to ship. I think there may also be another loco with more than 16 functions but cannot recall it.


Offline clapcott  
#8 Posted : 22 November 2016 23:18:12(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Excellent review. Most useful was that the ESU M4 decoders registered just fine.


Unfortunately, I must report that, at least for the ESU Loksound V 4.0 M4 decoder (Piko 56346), while the CS3 Plus automatically registered the decoder (like a Marklin mfx) it did NOT read addressable functions beyond F15. Thus the CS3 Plus appears to read only 16 addressable functions like the former MS2 and CS2. The Piko 56346 decoder contains 11 additional functions (mostly sounds) in F15-F26. Perhaps the CS3 would respond differently for a Marklin decoder or with updated software. In any event, this is a problem Marklin should address.


For the record , please state ...
- firmware version of decoder
- firmware version of CS3

Also please state (quote from decoder/loco manufacturer) whether the F16+ functions are actually available via mfx i.e. not the alternate of operating in DCC mode

Note: I inquire about the statement of conformity for mfx not M4.
Peter
Offline bugsmasher  
#9 Posted : 23 November 2016 04:51:07(UTC)
bugsmasher

United States   
Joined: 07/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Michigan, Canton
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post


For the record , please state ...
- firmware version of decoder
- firmware version of CS3

Also please state (quote from decoder/loco manufacturer) whether the F16+ functions are actually available via mfx i.e. not the alternate of operating in DCC mode

Note: I inquire about the statement of conformity for mfx not M4.


As stated in the first paragraph of the review, the firmware of the CS3+ was the original 1.0.0 (0). The instructions for the Piko decoder (which was produced and were written BEFORE the CS3+ was released, and which declared no decoder software "version" ) stated that even though the M4 decoder would be registered (like mfx) by a Marklin Central Station, only 16 functions would be available. But because of its timing this statement could only have referred to a CS2.

The question was whether the inability would extend to the CS3. Unfortunately, it did -- at least for the Piko decoder and the original CS3 firmware.

As discussion on another thread (CS3/CS3+ Addressable Functions) in this forum suggests, it can be endlessly debated whether Marklin or instead ESU should address the problem. I can only report the inability/incompatibility in this review.

Hopefully, Marklin and/or ESU is/are watching this forum and will move or cooperate to solve the deficiency. But I don't expect much.

Time to move on the review other characteristics of thr CS3 Plus.....
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 23 November 2016 08:17:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post
I assume that you mean the controller, not the decoder, will require a firmware upgrade.
I assume that the decoder will need a firmware upgrade.
ESU made V4 M4 decoders with 29 functions and RailCom+ long before Märklin decided to extend mfx beyond 16 functions.

Let's face it: Märklin prefer company standards over industry standard to keep the competition out. Maybe we will never see more than 16 mfx functions with non-Märklin decoders.

I prefer industry standards. I disabled mfx in my Central Station 60212 "Reloaded", so I can use 29 function with ESU V4 M4 decoders using DCC.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline clapcott  
#11 Posted : 23 November 2016 10:49:23(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post
Hopefully, Marklin and/or ESU is/are watching this forum and will move or cooperate to solve the deficiency.


Marklin already have a solution - its called a mSD/3 (or mLD/3) and has been available since last year

Marklin and ESU consipred on mFX back before 2003 when the 60212 Central Station and 60651/2 Mobile Station were announced.

The mFX documentation already states support for 32 functions
UserPostedImage

If ESU or PIKO (or Marklin with its 60213/4/5) hardware/firmware does not choose to implement the full capability of mFX, it does not mean it is the fault of other hardware that does.

I suggest you either update your Piko lok with the mSD/3 or chase Piko/ESU to provide a device that does support the current mFX more fully.

Peter
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 23 November 2016 20:40:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
The mFX documentation already states support for 32 functions
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the CAN documentation. This works on the CS2 with up to 29 functions using DCC. So the CAN protocol used by the CS2 supports 32 functions.

The mfx track protocol is a different story. AFAIK there is a limit of 16 functions in the inofficial reverse-engineered mfx documentation. I'm unaware of any official mfx documentation.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline clapcott  
#13 Posted : 24 November 2016 00:02:56(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
The mFX documentation already states support for 32 functions
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the CAN documentation. This works on the CS2 with up to 29 functions using DCC. So the CAN protocol used by the CS2 supports 32 functions.


Yes , quite correct , it is the CAN protocol documentation from the CS2 and not the specific mFX documentation.

I was using it to show that the infrastructure thinking had been there for years, even if there has not been a hardware solution that implemented it fully.


Peter
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 24 November 2016 08:18:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
I was using it to show that the infrastructure thinking had been there for years, even if there has not been a hardware solution that implemented it fully.
DCC decoders with more than 16 functions are around for a long time - and the CAN bus is used for all protocols (DCC, MM, mfx). The CS2 supports 29 functions since DCC was introduced with the 60214.

mfx is a few years older than the CS2 CAN bus and I presume the specification limits it to 16 functions.
Will Märklin provide ESU with information how they implemented 32 functions? Or will ESU have to do reverse engineering? Are there patent problems?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 24 November 2016 11:38:36(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

Note: I inquire about the statement of conformity for mfx not M4.


Well, M4 is ESU's name for mfx, presumably because they cannot use mfx because that is a Marklin trademark. I assume m4 stands for 'motorola 4' on the basis that fx decoders are regarded as 'motorola 3' ...

Yes i know that mfx is not a motorola format, but is completely new, but they had to come up with a name somehow ...

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Offline Danlake  
#16 Posted : 12 April 2017 19:08:01(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi all,

I have had the Marklin CS3 for about a month now and below is my initial review/observations of the new controller.

I decided to upgrade as my previous CS2 controller had started getting faults on the throttles, and wanted some faster hardware for my computer controlled layout.

Positive

It has a sleek, non intrusive design and looks really good in black.

It boots up extremely fast.

It has increased flexibility in terms of automation of routes and schedules.

The layout switchboard can be highly customised.

Marklin finally got rid of the simulated breaking and acceleration function.

Very fast mFx registration.

Good library of loco icons and now in high quality.

Negative

The touch screen is pretty useless and you have to use a mouse.

The 2 throttles are not very tall and difficult to get a proper handle on it.

It's frustrating using the speed bar. Even with a mouse it's a hit and miss if you manage to click on setting zero to stop a train. Half the time you will click on the direction arrows instead which will force the train to stop abruptly. Or you will click on the outside area which will close the train window...

When editing locomotives it's not clear when changes are being saved.

Have experienced several issues when editing CV's for non Mfx locomotives (most likely a software bug).

Final comments

It's clear Marklin wanted to make a innovative controller with a smart touch screen. The hardware looks good and it has lots of potential, but the touch screen is no where near what would be expected. Also clear that the software is still in beta test mode and a bit perplexed how their own engineers would not have picked up on the various software issues while testing the unit?

If the software gets sorted, and you can accept working with a mouse it would be a recommended product else you are probably better off staying with CS2 or other controllers.

Brgds Lasse

Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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