Hello Everyone

I start this thread for my comments and experiences of Märklin CS3+ which arrived today .

I just opened the parcel which included CS3+ and new 60061 Switched Model Power Pack.

I really did wait for English Manual which should be in the box but. . . there was only German language manual. I really am disappointed.

Next I'm going to put new device to my layout and power it on.
I inform you what happens later...

Regards

Jukka

Whatever you do, don't update your CS3+ as there are issues with the update - see the 'CS3 Plus 60216' thread - https://www.marklin-user...indunread-CS3-Plus-60216

Also, don't try to import any data to your CS3+ from your CS2, as this may 'brick' your CS3 - see H0's comment in https://www.marklin-user...rting-CS2-datas-into-CS3

Edited by user 26 October 2016 22:05:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jukka, I feel bad for you not having a smooth transition with the CS3. I heard from a US dealer that the CS3 is not bug free, nor was it in great shape for the Toy Show. I find it a little thought less that no English manual (or readable) was provided. I am hopeful you can get back to us with some good news, but in the meantime thanks for the information.

Which way is that? Which version are you currently on? Mine does not seem to get any updates.

Okay I was afraid to click the "emergency update" button. I will try and do that.

Did your screenshot feature work before the update? Because mine does not currently work it gives me an http 404 not found. As if the feature is not in the webserver.

Yes webserver has worked at the first beginning OK

Jukka

Hello everyone
Here is second document of my studies, it is about Track Board Diagram, how to edit and get functional Board.



I hope that this will open a bit of CS3+ way of doing layout picture for CS3.

Happy Training
Regards
Jukka

Hello again all.
Here are a few observations how CS3 + was working when I put it onto a real track environment.
Track include one booster and one L88.





I connect all wires and then put all on. Everything seemed OK BUT . . .
After I have configure L88 as it should be and after looked at in more detail the devices and their configuration data I saw that all is not OK.
Booster did not show any values at all and L88 configuration was empty. ( zeroes in places where should be 4).

I configured L88 again, but evet hough numbers seemed to change actually they did not changed. And Booster did not show values like in the picture above.

THERE IS some kind of BUG in the Märklin Sofware that is for sure. I tried all possible maneuvers to put S88 Bus Lenght but I did not manage

After I cut all the electricity from all devices and put all on again, Booster woke up and after re-configuration of L88 all seems to be OK now.

One more thing: when Booster seemed to be down, it still gave electricity to track and I could run my trains. .

Anyway this is a good start. I have been ready for all kinds of troubles with new device so no problem for me those small defects in the software. There will be updates many time in future.

Now I put my new device into whole layout and configure all turnouts and contacts and test what might be next troubles


I'll get back soon

Meanwhile

Happy Training

Regards

Jukka

Hello
Today I configured my testing layout for CS3+:







CS3+ had no problems at all. It takes some time for your mouse hand to learn how to draw and put items.

I used many many Track Route items ( a small quadrangle Track Layout menu item ) and after the picture was all drawn then I deleted all unnecessary item away.




As you can see above pictures it is possible to draw quite large layout in one screen. This is good feature of CS3 and CS3+.
Next job is to configure all contacts for layout and test them. I think I'll do own track diagram for all possible contacts for testing purpose first.

I will tell you after this task is done.

Happy Training

Regards
Jukka

Hello
Here is some information from real life considering what can be done by connecting old CS2 and new CS3 Plus together.

You can connect CS2 and CS3 to network, but those devices don't see each other, you need Märklin 60123 cable if you want to connect device so that devices could in theory transfer data between them or see each other.
At the moment 60123 can be used, but data-transfer don't work we have to wait for new update.
I have tried transfer in many ways but not succeed. CS3 Plus see CS2 and CS2 automatically goes to auxiliary mode. When CS2 is in auxiliary mode and connected to CS3 Plus all information in CS2( keyboard, layouts, memory and locos) cannot be seen and use. When devices are connected by 60123 and CS2 is in auxiliary mode I have managed to get ( using CS2) locos from CS3 Plus and they worked fine. With present software versions you cannot transfer other data, not keyboard, memory and memory.

Today I tried also current version of Märklin PC-software. It don't work at all with CS3 Plus. .

So we have to wait and hope new updates

Happy Training though

Regards

Jukka

Hello Everyone. And thank you Peter for your post. I understand that you need more specific information here I try to explain more:
First: I mean data transfer like transferring an functional backup from CS2 to CS3 and get all information of, layouts, magnetic articles, memory etc. to CS3 and see them in CS3-way there.

You asked: "The tone of certain discussions seem to expect that there will be a way to transfer configuration data from a secondary(auxilary) device TO the master(CS3) and I am at a loss to understand where this expectation comes from."

Well Look the picture of CS3 manual page 6:



The manual says:"Then you can
import your valuable locomotive, magnetic items, and track data from there in a few steps.
All you need is a USB stick with the backup of your CS2 data. Important: As the first step,
insert the USB stick into either of the two USB ports on the back of the CS3."

I understand this so that you should have possibilities to transfer all necessary data from CS2 so that your environmet will be in CS3 as it is in CS2.

Then about connecting CS2 and CS3 to network:

As you know you can put Ethernet cable to CSx and reboot the device, they connect automatically into your network if you use DHCP in both devices. I have done this and both devices were connected but they don't see each other in any ways. PC in contrast see both devices fine.( device's webserver can be seen in PC and all webserver functions did function OK) actually CS3's webserver do not have many functions yet.)

If you connect CS2 and CS3 together with Cable 60123 and put devices on. ( you should always make connection like this without electricity). After boot CS2 turns itself to auxiliary device mode and CS3 is Master device. When you look in CS2 in this situation, you can not see anything old information there( All locos are invisible and you cannot get them to action. Same situation is considering layouts, magnetic articles and memory.)
You cannot see information which is inside CS2 from CS3.( I didn't find any kind of manner to get data from CS2 to CS3 using cable connection)

BUT . . . I did manage to get locos from CS3 to CS2 using cable ( 60123) connection). I cannot tell you exact step by step how i Did it yet, I try to rearrange the situation later and tell you after new study how you could do it.

When I used 60123 connection CS2 ( in auxiliary mode) was like booster, but you cannot see it just like real booster: Look at the picture



You see it but only so little information about it.
I know that slave cannot update master device but somehow there must be a way to transfer in some cases high amount of data from CS2 to CS3 using fast network instead of using tumble USB.

And finally:

I have examined backup-data from both devices: CS2 and CS3 Plus. Simply backup files are ZIPped files and can be opened with WinZip. I am sure after looking at those files that all graphical pictures like turnouts, signals, etc. are in the CS3's memory, therefore all that kind of graphical items can be used when device is "translating" CS2 data to CS3 data.
Of course I expect that new device which is meant to replace old device, can use all old device's data automatically ( or there should be tools for manually translate).

The new device has a lot of shortcomings, and possibly even incorrect functions, but I believe that within few months Märklin will correct incorrect functions and fulfill expectations.


If anyone of you have idea(s) how to test and what to test with new CS3 Plus, I am willing to do tests for you.


I hope that Peter you got some questions, please ask more, I try to answer.

Regards

Jukka

Hi Francois.

My attempt to download the update from CS2 to CS3 stopped because I didn't find proper USB-stick. I have many of them, but it seems to me that no one worked properly.

Then one of Forum's member warned me to try too hard with CS2 update to CS3. So I have not tried it, but still I wonder that Beta-version of yours. I can get Beta-version software to my CS3 Plus, and it makes a purple background. But even though CS2's backup will not transfer to CS3 Plus. And I really don't know why.

So If you have proper and functional UBS-stick with some kind of led light then try to look that light when you make a backup from CS2. look at the clock how much time it takes to make backup to USB. After that move the stick to CS3 and try to restore backup into it. Look again how much time it takes in CS3.
During my experiences backup from CS2 takes several minutes, and when I try to restore it to Cs3 it takes only one or two seconds and then light is steady and nothing happens even if I wait for many many minutes. Once I waited over an hour and restore didn't succeed.

I will try again tomorrow so let's see what might be the outcomes.

Regards

Jukka

Sounds like a software bug to me. Hang on, Märklin will no doubt fix that eventually.

It can be tough to be a buyer of just introduced tech products. Even Apple ships millions of devices with problems that they have to clean up later. I know that from personal experience.

I think this kind of thing is to be expected, although I do understand that you paid serious money for a device that does not operate properly and you have every right to be annoyed.

Welcome to the Brave New Digital World!

I have just updated my CS3 plus to version 1.1.0(3) and this is not a Beta version.

But there is still things not working yet.

I have tried to connect my PC running cs2.exe, and there is connection. You can activate the STOP but you cannot select any of the trains defined in CS3. But from my Android device I can select loks from the CS3 lok list, and it seems like you can activate the functions and speed. The same for my CS2 acting as a slave.

Best regards
Per

Hello Everyone

I have spent my free time recently by playing with my new 3D printer, PRUSA 3i, but yesterday I started again to study my CS3 Plus.
I found that several updates where available and of course I did all updates first. Evertything went OK, no problem.
Then I started to add manually all my locos to CS3 Plus. It took quite a while and now all locos are there I also added Märklin "Messwagen" 49960.

At the moment CS3 Plus is in this situation:



The device ( CS3 Plus) is working fine, all locos runs fine and turnouts and contacts works fine, but . . .

"Messwagen" don't work.



I tried to make configuration manually address 75 and MM-protocol. Wagon was on the program-track. it responds only so that it show the speed of wagon. If I push whatever function F1 to F4, behavior don't change, it shows only speed.
Then I used my old CS2 and it's program-Track and wagon worked as it should when I pushed those Fx buttons.

The I looked into CS3 Plus's MM-database ( it cand be used when locos protocol is MM. There is Messwagen and when I downloaded it configuration seemed to be ok. But it wouldn't work better.

I know that this wagon is meant to be used with old DELTA units but because it worked with CS2 I assumed that it will work also with CS3 Plus.

ANY IDEAS whant can I do to get this wagon into proper condition?

Someone might ask Why I purchased 3D printer. Well I am going to make spare parts for my Märklin world. I have done so all ready, nothing big but anyway now I know how to configure this printer, what exactly cannot be done and how to use it in proper way.
I have to say that it is good thing really worth buying ( about 300 euros). It was DIY-kit and it took about one day to make it.

This thread is not for #d stuff so nothing more about it. Send me e-mail if you want to hear more.


OK now I continue to work with CS3 Plus

Happy Training Everyone

Regards

Jukka

Thank you Tom

You are right in the 49960's manual they say that conventional operation with DELTA and digital operation with 6020 or control unit 6021.

So let's wait if Märklin will update CS3 Plus for this kind of old special decoders.

Jukka

I wouldn't expect problems with that one.
49960, 4998, and 4999 are cars that require the special mode - pre-fx function decoders.
Locos with fx decoders shouldn't have issues.

Hello again

Today I tested: What exactly happen, when you put CS3 Plus and CS2 together with cable 60123. It took few hours to solve what you can do and which possible features do not work yet.

First: Put 60123 cable to both devices with power off, it is important to secure that your devices don't broke down.

Second: turn CS3 Plus on first and wait that device works normally.

To this point I have done quite work to manually configure all my locos and magnetic devices and one MFX signal to CS3 Plus. I have not succeed to transfer configuration information from CS2 to CS3 Plus using USB-device so I did all manually.

Third: put the power on for CS2 and wait . . . if CS2 ( I assume that in most cases it will be) is master, CS3 Plus can see the situation:



And CS2 also notice the situation:



As you see those devices don't know what kind of master is at another end of cable. Interesting was that my CS2 wants to initiate TFP version to DOWN !!!
If someone of you please tell me what that TFP means( perhaps it is some kind of protocol)

At the first time I did push green check-mark and the result was odd for me:



I didn't know at that time what was happening, I waited for an hour and same information was on the CS2's screen. I didn't went away so I cut the power and put it on again.

Then I tried to find out in what condition my CS2 was I realized that it went to slave mode but there was no information from CS3 Plus.
Now I am sure that there are deficiency in Märklin software and I started to find out what can be done (for transferring information) at this stage.

At the moment you can transfer from CS3 Plus to CS2 KEYBOARD-information and Locomotives but not TrackBoard. I don't know about MEMORY-information yet, but I will test it also.

I surely understand that because layouts are so different in each devices t it is difficult to make same kind of layout-picture to CS2 as it is in CS3 Plus.


I managed to transfer information as follows:

CS3 Plus is powered on as master CS2 is powered on as a slave and NOW VERY IMPORTANT: make sure that all check-marks are off:



This is important because automatically transfer is not going to begin.

Then check "Sync with Master" and (keybd. or contr.) one at the time and wait that CS2 informs you that transferring is done. Here is one example:



It took time to manage but now we all know at least one way to do this at the moment.
I am sure that all this is going to change in near future when we can get more updates from Märklin


Thats all for now

Happy Training Everyone

Regards

Jukka

Thank You again Tom.

So if CS2 is trying to do so, there is ( at least in my opinion) big problem at Märklin Software and Update office . Because they promise that CS2 and CS3 Plus will work together, why on earth they are not updated both device to the same level ( when we discuss about Track Signal processing).

It shows that somewhere in their organization Left hands don't know what Right hands are doing.
I was expecting problems but not this kind of problem.

I am a bit angry now. There is one other thing that should be changed as soon as possible.
They should put some kind of indicator to tell to user that something is going on inside the device. Moving something until all is done.

And for both version of Central Station.

Perhaps they do so in future

Jukka

The decoder in the mess wagen do have MM1 protocol.
Make sure CS3 stand MM1 and correct adress on the mouse dip switch.

Hello everyone, this is my first message on this forum even though I have been a member for many years.
I have Cs3 30226. Cs2.exe works well, but MSD decoders can not add sounds and Decoder-Programmer for mLD3 and mSD3 and Decodertool mDT cant find Cs3 unit.

"I would ignore that message and just click the green tick when asked if I want to make the cs2 a slave."

But don't forget to report issue to Märklin service

Good Morning
I am sure that Märklin people read all comments which are found from this Forum considering new CS3.
I have sent few e-mails to Märklin and they don't respond at all or in some service person have responded after few weeks I have sent.

So it really is frustrating to send information and wait fore respond.

So I have decided to write to Forum people here seems to read and comment, it is VERY NICE.

Regards

Jukka

Correct and indeed for some people this is a real problem. To myself it was too. I also have this problem with the Apple tablet. But while you cannot connect the tablet to a USB mouse (I did it via bluetooth, but this is not as good as via USB), here at the CS 3. YES you can do it! And it is very easy to do!

I just plugged the sender into the USB slot from my wireless mouse. Switched the mouse on. It was pairing itself and from the very first moment it is working perfectly. No need touching the screen. And it keeps the screen clear from my fat fingerprints too.

Do not buy a new touch pen. Buy a new mouse. I had the very best experiences for such external devices (mouse, keyboard, etc.) from Logitech - only excellent products from these Swiss guys.

Meanwhile I added an USB hub into both USB slots (my hub has two USB connectors for a better power supply). This hub has 7 USB slots, one is used for the mouse. So I do have another 6 slots for keyboard (well even in the CS 3, sometimes a keyboard occurs on screen, if you need it for typing) bigger screen or whatever. I use an USB hub with switches. Makes life easier, because you do not have all the time to remove and plug in again the not used devices.

Yep.
CS2.exe can be downloaded from Märklin's site for use on a PC.

The MDT can be used to write the decoder configuration to the decoder. The mfx magic needs some initialisation first.