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Offline applor  
#1 Posted : 15 September 2016 04:20:47(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Hi all,

Looking at buying some acrylic paints to airbrush/weather my K track in the future and have been trying to find the right colour in the right size here in Aus.

From what I've read the ideal colour is floquil roof brown, now known as Testors 4884
Another alternative is Railroad Tie Brown:
https://www.micromark.co...rown-2-ounces,11281.html

Unfortunately I cannot find these colours in Aus so I have been looking at alternatives.

A possible alternative is to just use Burnt Umber and many are happy with the result though I have read also this is a bit too orange/red. Just looks like a darker shade than the roof brown.

I have been looking here at what is available and I could get Burnt Umber or maybe also mix it with burnt sienna

https://www.eckersleys.c...ve-artists-acrylic-paint

Edited by user 15 March 2017 05:37:13(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline dominator  
#2 Posted : 15 September 2016 12:05:04(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,183
Location: Kerikeri
Hi Eric. You would be surprised how many colours of rust there are. When I was driving down to Whangarei one time, the track which is used seldomly, looked bright orange on the top surface.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline GLI  
#3 Posted : 15 September 2016 16:11:20(UTC)
GLI


Joined: 28/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 82
Location: Lithgow NSW Australia
Hi Eric

I have a thing about the colour of railway track. When doing landscaping and scenery work, we are attempting to reproduce the real world in miniature. I see many well detailed model railways that are ruined (to my way of thinking) by the track. In many cases, no attempt has been made to weather the track at all, or the rail has been painted a red rust colour.

My advice is to go out, if you can,and look at the real track, up close, and at a distance. Remember we are attempting to reproduce a railway as seen from a distance. As Derek points out above, track that is seldom used will show the rust quite clearly, particularly if it is in the sunlight. If the track is never used, such as a disused siding, it will also show the rust, usually as a much darker colour.

But if you go and look at a line that is in regular everyday use, it is my observation that the colour is usually a type of mid brown to a greyish brown. The rust colour of the rail is covered with dust from the ballast and brakes, and oil. If the rail has only recently been laid, then it will have a rust colour, but this only lasts for a few weeks.

The other item to consider is the colour of the timber sleepers. They are nearly always reproduced for us modellers in model railway track in a molded brown plastic, but again it is my observation that after sleepers have been in use for some time, they are a gray or silver gray colour. This will only be relevant if you are using K track.

I use Floquil sleeper gray and Floquil rail brown for these items. I still have stocks of these,as Floquil is no longer produced, but I understand that these colours are now made by Testors. I think you can obtain these colours from Casula Hobbies at Liverpool in Sydney. A quick telephone call on (02) 9602 8640 should confirm this. If they do have the paint in stock, I would buy a couple of bottles, depending on how much track you have to paint, as Testors bottles are rather small.

Finally, I would not use burnt umber or burnt sienna as they are too red in colour, unless you are modelling a disused line or siding.

Regards
Geoff
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Offline applor  
#4 Posted : 16 September 2016 02:46:38(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Hi Eric. You would be surprised how many colours of rust there are. When I was driving down to Whangarei one time, the track which is used seldomly, looked bright orange on the top surface.

Dereck


Yes seldom used branch lines and sidings are often quite a bright red rust colour due to them having no traffic. I plan to do the end of my branch line past the block like this.

Originally Posted by: GLI Go to Quoted Post
Hi Eric

I have a thing about the colour of railway track. When doing landscaping and scenery work, we are attempting to reproduce the real world in miniature. I see many well detailed model railways that are ruined (to my way of thinking) by the track. In many cases, no attempt has been made to weather the track at all, or the rail has been painted a red rust colour.

My advice is to go out, if you can,and look at the real track, up close, and at a distance. Remember we are attempting to reproduce a railway as seen from a distance. As Derek points out above, track that is seldom used will show the rust quite clearly, particularly if it is in the sunlight. If the track is never used, such as a disused siding, it will also show the rust, usually as a much darker colour.

But if you go and look at a line that is in regular everyday use, it is my observation that the colour is usually a type of mid brown to a greyish brown. The rust colour of the rail is covered with dust from the ballast and brakes, and oil. If the rail has only recently been laid, then it will have a rust colour, but this only lasts for a few weeks.

The other item to consider is the colour of the timber sleepers. They are nearly always reproduced for us modellers in model railway track in a molded brown plastic, but again it is my observation that after sleepers have been in use for some time, they are a gray or silver gray colour. This will only be relevant if you are using K track.

I use Floquil sleeper gray and Floquil rail brown for these items. I still have stocks of these,as Floquil is no longer produced, but I understand that these colours are now made by Testors. I think you can obtain these colours from Casula Hobbies at Liverpool in Sydney. A quick telephone call on (02) 9602 8640 should confirm this. If they do have the paint in stock, I would buy a couple of bottles, depending on how much track you have to paint, as Testors bottles are rather small.

Finally, I would not use burnt umber or burnt sienna as they are too red in colour, unless you are modelling a disused line or siding.

Regards
Geoff


Hi Geoff. Yes I have looked at photos etc. but its hard to determine how a paint colour will come up.

Thankyou very much for your advice about burnt umber, it looks very brown to me (burnt sienna is very red though) but as mentioned it can be hard to tell.

I will chase up with Casula Hobbies regarding the Floquil colours and that is what I need most - a supplier!

modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 16 September 2016 18:20:20(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,553
To make realistic dust and rust on the rail,follow this steps:
1.Humbrol rust enamel color nr 113 and let it dry.
2.Add ballast and follow the way of use mixed water glue and let it dry.
3.Use earth color powder by dust the tracks and the earth powder get stucks on the rail by use dry brush.
4.Use vacuum to suck up rest of the powder from the tracks.
Done!
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Webmaster  
#6 Posted : 16 September 2016 21:20:36(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,143
Humbrol and Tamiya have great rust like colors in acrylic too.

I myself have quit using enamel colors since 15 years or so, prefer to use water as thinner instead of the more poisonous stuff needed for enamel colors...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline applor  
#7 Posted : 22 September 2016 07:16:16(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Thanks goofy but looking to use an airbrush and single colour, rather than having to use multiple colours and hand finish. I am using merkur ballast so I won't be hand ballasting.

I will have to see what the local toys-r-us have in the way of Humbrol paints.



I have also read a lot of people rave about rustoleum camo brown. Perfect colour and very flat finish.

http://www.rustoleum.com...ecialty/camouflage-spray

Comes in a spray can though, which I don't know how well it would go compared to a controlled finish using an airbrush.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline applor  
#8 Posted : 15 March 2017 05:36:22(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I would like to continue this conversation and more in the direction of weathering the track and ballast - something I find is not really discussed much here on marklin users.
I am guessing most here don't weather their track - or if they do, paint the rails only.
I have found this guide which has been great, though no pictures and some details missing:
https://www.marklin-user...el/weathering/track.html
I cant find magic masker here in Australia either, but I have read just some PVC wood glue will also be fine since it can be easily removed after drying.

I am using Merkur roadbed and I feel additional weathering should be done after the rails are painted and the track inserted into the Merkur, to give a more blended appearance with the dirt/rust colour also showing on the ballast.

It's hard to find good details on the process since it is not discussed here and Stummis is all in German, so I find myself reading mostly threads from the American model RR forums as it is standard for them. Such as:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr...88/p/227357/2536101.aspx

I am thinking:
airbrushing the side of the rails outside of the track bed.
installing the track into the merkur and then doing a light spray vertical down the track and ballast (in the same colour) to give the sleepers and ballast some colour
Then doing a grimy black spray down the middle of the track between the rails (dependant on location/traffic)
Maybe then finish with some hand weathering on the sleepers such as dry brushing some grey to add the final touch.
Could also paint individual sleepers different shades to black as per above thread, though rather labour intensive.

Has anyone here weathered their sleepers/ballast as well, or would like to comment on the topic?

edit: also, does K track need cleaning before painting?
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Carim  
#9 Posted : 15 March 2017 14:34:49(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 571
Location: London
Hi,

I weather my track; I mix in a bit of black with the browns that I use to paint the sides of the rails - the aim is to tone everything down. In the attached picture you can see the effect compared to the unpainted rails on the points. Then I use very dilute washes over the sleepers including greys to get rid of the plastic look - this inevitably flows onto the ballast. A few pools of gloss black dripped onto the track where trains (especially diesels) stop mimics oil spills. Finally, a bit of "burnt grass" flock can be glued on the ballast to give a more neglected look, especially on sidings where I even use longer static grass.

Diesels under the wires v2.jpg

Carim

p.s. I can't really comment about K-track as I do Z-scale, I didn't bother cleaning my tracks before painting them but I guess it couldn't hurt.
Offline michelvr  
#10 Posted : 15 March 2017 15:43:07(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,257
Hello Eric,

I used Burnt Umber and I like many are happy with the results. Is it a bit too orange/red? No just the right kind of rust colour! BigGrin

My method of application is with a angled paint brush and after the ballast is also airbrushed with a light coat of Burnt Umber. Ballast used was Noch 0972 Ballast Brown. I did not clean the tracks before painting.

What you are seeing is not finished as I still need help with the devil, as in the details!!

If you would like more pictures just let me know and I will post them.

Michel

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Offline dennisb  
#11 Posted : 15 March 2017 20:35:42(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
On my previous c-track layout I weathered the track with a mix of Noch brown colour and a black patina on top. Worked really well. For my current layout I also want to weather the tracks and and am just like you using k-track with Merkur trackbed. I've done some tests and the same mix will work fine on the K-track and Merkur. So far so good.

My biggest problem is on the previous layout I had some issues with contact between the pukos and the pickup shoe. Cleaning the tracks themselves was very easy but cleaning the puckos I find more difficult. Do you have any recommendations on how to clean airbrushed pukos? What do you use yourselves?

D.
Offline michelvr  
#12 Posted : 15 March 2017 20:55:53(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,257
Hello Dennis,

I use the Peco rail cleaner.

Puko cleaner extraordinaire!

Just run it down the track a few times and it removes dried on paint like magic!

Michel

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Offline dennisb  
#13 Posted : 15 March 2017 21:16:34(UTC)
dennisb

Sweden   
Joined: 21/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 217
Location: Kronoberg
Thank you!
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Offline applor  
#14 Posted : 16 March 2017 03:30:35(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I also use a similar rail cleaner for the centre studs, they work well.

Carim what track is that? Or is it N gauge? Weathering looks good
Your weathering looks good Michel, though I must say the ballast profile looks rather high on some tracks.

I had also considered using burnt umber, though some considered it a bit too red.
I ended up finding the railroad tie brown from testors (previously floquil) so I will be using that for the rails and overspray.

In regards to my question, I actually found the answer soon after I posted - and that is the best way is to do all painting/weathering after the ballast is done.
This is good, since it makes laying track a lot easier.

Last night I also picked up some dark grey and brown paints for the baseboard.

I feel like I am almost ready to tackle the visible areas of my layout.

I still have lingering questions about the transition from ballasted areas to those which would normally have no profile, such as inspection pits.
This is because my small branch line station has a service shed with a small coaling area and inspection pit.
The inspection pit kit comes with a concreted flat area, so using merkur with it will require changes.
I can either build up a couple of brick layers to raise the height of the inspection pit so it is level with the track, or not use merkur in the station area and just do some ballast without a profile.
I think I know the correct answer will be to have no profile and ballast flat, so I wonder if I should make the whole station area flat or just the siding that goes to the inspection pit.
I already bought the merkur I needed for the station area though too.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline applor  
#15 Posted : 16 March 2017 05:04:38(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Found some good discussions on the topic of transitions.

It seems I will need to transition from roadbed to flat for my sidings and lok depot, though I will use raised ballast for the platform areas in branch and mainline stations which I had decided on since that is still correct (depending on station)

http://www.modeltrainfor...m/showthread.php?t=10947
http://cs.trains.com/mrr...11/p/239201/2669215.aspx
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Carim  
#16 Posted : 16 March 2017 10:22:52(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 571
Location: London
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post


Carim what track is that?


It is Marklin and some Peco Z-scale track. The principles about weathering track hold regardless of what scale you are using.

Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
I had also considered using burnt umber, though some considered it a bit too red.


I used burnt umber but I toned it down with some black.

The best thing is to go down and visit your local real railway and just look at how the prototype weathers and get more of an idea about what colours to use. Alternatively, do this via YouTube to see European tracks.

Carim
Offline applor  
#17 Posted : 16 March 2017 22:47:14(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I plan to have a test run on some scrap flex and merkur ballast this weekend to see how it comes out.

I am undecided about spending the time to weather individual sleepers or not for the branch line.
Very time consuming but the effect can be brilliant:

http://model-railroad-ho...rgos/IMG_3056%283%29.jpg
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline applor  
#18 Posted : 18 March 2017 09:45:07(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Did a trial run today to test weathering sleepers and also the rail rust colour.

Unfortunately being the first time I've used an airbrush, it wasn't the greatest. I over sprayed at one stage and covered most of my sleeper weathering on one side:(

Here it is anyways (note on the first pic that the rail moved a bit, hence the exposed parts)

rails1.JPGrails2.JPG
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline Goofy  
#19 Posted : 18 March 2017 11:04:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,553
It looks nice!
To air brush details on the tracks is more easier and if you use Merkur road bed.
I did tested ballast and other rail roader do like better to use air brush gun to seal the dirt color on the tracks.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline applor  
#20 Posted : 19 March 2017 09:47:57(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,529
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Thanks Goofy.

I did another trial run today on a parallel R4/5 merkur bed which won't really be visible on the layout.

This time I tried the model master railroad tie brown 4885 which I found far more subtle and you definitely notice how much redder the Tamiya red brown is.

I also did some black for the centre line. It was a cheap art bottle of black acrylic which was thick and needed thinning.

Unfortunately I had some flow issues as it had to be thinned and then when it did flow it came out too thick, so you can see the black is far too much.

rails4.JPGrails3.JPG

My other alternative is a Tamiya acrylic called Linoleum Deck Brown which might be a shade between the two.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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