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Offline Tex  
#1 Posted : 02 September 2016 19:37:39(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Hello out there !

My layout uses M track with a 6021 digital control unit. My signals are 763XX Marklin light signals operated with a single 6040 keyboard. I needed one more signal to complete my system and purchased a 76494 exit signal and find it is programed with dip switches rather than by using my 6021 control unit. Can I still program it to work of my keyboard or must I find a 76394 signal?

Tex Confused
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 02 September 2016 22:19:31(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Yes the 76496 can be used with the 6021/6040 by setting the DIP switches to the address you want.
(DIP position 10 would be off for Motorola mode which is what the 6021 produces)

Be aware that the address table for these new devices is not the same as the older (loco) address tables. use the one from manual that came with the 76496

As a note: these units MAY be programmed electronically
If setting the address it will override the DIP switch address UNTIL the DIP switch is changed (If the unit detects the switches have changed it will use that address)
Soft programing of address is only really needed if you have a DCC layout and wish a very high address (above 511) that the DIP switches do not reach.

You may still use the 6021 for soft programming, in order to adjust the brightness and the fade in/out characteristics of the lights.
Refer http://www.maerklin.de/f...mmierung_M84_Signale.pdf

The difference (between the 763xx and 764xx )in doing so is that the new units do not need a clip installed.
However, unlike the soft programming of locos (where any loco on the track gets changed) there is one additional step required for the signals.
That is, to call up the address of the signal and switch it normally so that it knows you are talking to it. Without this feature any programming on the track will affect all signals.
Of course - make sure there are no locos on the track at the time just in case the CV/Reg that you are changing does mean something to them.
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Tex  
#3 Posted : 02 September 2016 22:44:12(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Yes the 76496 can be used with the 6021/6040 by setting the DIP switches to the address you want.
(DIP position 10 would be off for Motorola mode which is what the 6021 produces)

Be aware that the address table for these new devices is not the same as the older (loco) address tables. use the one from manual that came with the 76496

As a note: these units MAY be programmed electronically
If setting the address it will override the DIP switch address UNTIL the DIP switch is changed (If the unit detects the switches have changed it will use that address)
Soft programing of address is only really needed if you have a DCC layout and wish a very high address (above 511) that the DIP switches do not reach.

You may still use the 6021 for soft programming, in order to adjust the brightness and the fade in/out characteristics of the lights.
Refer http://www.maerklin.de/f...mmierung_M84_Signale.pdf

The difference (between the 763xx and 764xx )in doing so is that the new units do not need a clip installed.
However, unlike the soft programming of locos (where any loco on the track gets changed) there is one additional step required for the signals.
That is, to call up the address of the signal and switch it normally so that it knows you are talking to it. Without this feature any programming on the track will affect all signals.
Of course - make sure there are no locos on the track at the time just in case the CV/Reg that you are changing does mean something to them.


Thank you, the dip switches are in my opinion better than the clips , however, one problem I have is that the address table that came with the 76494 has only for one address but the previous signal of this type ( 76394 ) needed two addresses. Want to set it for keyboard 1 , position 5 and position 6.
Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 03 September 2016 12:17:00(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Apologies, I should have addressed the aspect of the distance mast addresses.
This is , indeed, a thorny issue - prepare to be disappointed

Marklin, in its wisdom, have chosen to make the assignment of additional addresses "simple" in fx(MM) mode and give you no option but to use consecutive addresses.
The base address of the DIP switches and the one following (+1) are for the Home masthead - the +2 (3rd) and +3(4th) address are for the distant masthead

as per the statement on page 11 under the fx(MM) section ...

The address for the distant signal located on the mast, the next address on the 76495, on the 76496 and 76497 the address after the next address, is assigned automatically. This address cannot be changed.


This does make it hard if you have to rearrange your existing signals
i.e. the home address for which the distance signal is associated with may need to be changed
You have to work backwards, and of course can never have a continuous loop that catches its tail.


To rub salt into the wound, there IS the possibility of setting a different address for the distance masthead IF you are operating in DCC mode, which of course the 6021/6040 cannot.

Even the "so called" mFX functionality does not (currently) support this so you are best off (if you have a CS2 or DCC controller) just setting the DCC mode manually and adjusting the address without wasting time with the CS2 mFX configuration stuff up..
Peter
Offline Tex  
#5 Posted : 04 September 2016 06:56:43(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Peter


I am not disappointed, the next in line button , works for me just fine. I have a single track , point to point layout with five locations with passing tracks which is where the signals are located. The top row of eight keyboard buttons are eastbound and the lower eight are westbound. So to use buttons 5 and 6 all I have to do is have the dip switches #1 and #3 up and the remainder down.

I am very pleased with the new marklin 764XX signals , they have taken a good product and made it much better.

The 763XX signals required that the mast be removed from the base plate for programing and the wires to the signal on one end and to the mast on the other were soldered to the computer chip . The soldered connections were subject to breakage during programing and instillation.

The 764XX signals can be programed without removing the mast from the base plate and the mast remains firmly clipped in place. Future, the wires from both the mast and the power source can be plugged into the computer chip eliminating the problem with the soldered connections of the 763XX signals. As a further touch , the computer chip is marked to identify what type signal it is to be connected to.

TEX

Update , the new 76494 signal was programed and installed but shows only red lights and does not respond to keyboard, what did I do wrong ? Blushing

Edited by user 04 September 2016 21:33:10(UTC)  | Reason: update of problem

Offline Minok  
#6 Posted : 06 September 2016 23:47:39(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post


Marklin, in its wisdom, have chosen to make the assignment of additional addresses "simple" in fx(MM) mode and give you no option but to use consecutive addresses.
The base address of the DIP switches and the one following (+1) are for the Home masthead - the +2 (3rd) and +3(4th) address are for the distant masthead

as per the statement on page 11 under the fx(MM) section ...

The address for the distant signal located on the mast, the next address on the 76495, on the 76496 and 76497 the address after the next address, is assigned automatically. This address cannot be changed.



So is it a good practice (on a new layout) to assign addresses to your signals spaced 4 addresses apart (ie ignore the lowest 2 bits in the digital addresses) - that way you have the necessary spacing between all signals for the possible addition of distant signals being added to your main signals?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 07 September 2016 02:31:33(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post

So is it a good practice (on a new layout) to assign addresses to your signals spaced 4 addresses apart (ie ignore the lowest 2 bits in the digital addresses) - that way you have the necessary spacing between all signals for the possible addition of distant signals being added to your main signals?


For the unit in question (and in MM mode) , the logic is flawed, in as much as the 3rd and 4th address of any of these signals, is for the distance masthead that would be the home address (1st, 2nd) of the downstream signal, and would usually be set to the same address.

For this same reason you cannot practically use the mFX configuration offered via the CS2 (in MM OR DCC).

Right now, the best practice
- If you have a DCC capable controller ...
is to make use of the ability to set the home masthead address separately from the distant masthead address.

- If you do not have a DCC capable controller ...
Either -
- use the address in pairs (e.g. address always starts on an odd boundary)
OR
- use the address in quads, as suggested, BUT use a proxy association between the home masthead and the distant masthead.
This would be done with the route/memory function which issues two commands for one action.
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#8 Posted : 07 September 2016 02:39:36(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Tex Go to Quoted Post
Update , the new 76494 signal was programed and installed but shows only red lights and does not respond to keyboard, what did I do wrong ? Blushing


On the face of it, it would appear the address you set was misunderstood.
(if you had a MS2/CS2 friend, you could read the value out)

This can happen with the small mouse pianos where the contacts do not make properly.

I would suggest succinctly switching each position on>off>on or off>on>off with an appropriately sized device (jewellers screwdriver).
Using a blunt device or trying to make do with a finger nail may appear to move the switches but will not cleanly make contact.


Note:
If the Home masthead is showing HP0 or HP00 it is expected that the distance masthead will show no lights at all.



Peter
Offline Tex  
#9 Posted : 07 September 2016 05:32:12(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Peter

After your initial response to my question I programed my new 76494 signal using the dip switches and then hooked the signal with temporary wiring. The resulting sequence of westbound signals are as shown below:

Button # Signal

1 76391
2 & 3 76394
4 76391
5 & 6 76494 ( new addition )
7 76391 + 76383
8 76391

All work correctly except for the new 76494 which stays on red. I do not know if that is because I programed the signal incorrectly, since I cannot get the information on programing using a 6021 control unit through the marklin website. Is there a step between programing the dip switches and installing the signal ?

Tex
Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 07 September 2016 07:00:37(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Tex Go to Quoted Post
Is there a step between programing the dip switches and installing the signal ?


Not a mandatory one,
There are other optional settings for brightness, and whether the aspects fade in/out or not etc.

Can you take a photo?

(While you do say you have only one 6040 , is it set for unit #1(All 4 DIP switches on the back = off) with addresses 1-16?)


Peter
Offline Tex  
#11 Posted : 08 September 2016 20:53:07(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Peter,

In response to your question, I have only one 6040 and it is set as you asked with addresses 1 to 16 in use. I operate my trains point to point on a single track line with passing sidings. I use sequence operations and the turnouts are aligned and signals set prior to each train movement.

I have hooked up the signal to be directly powered from my 6021/6040 as a test, and the new signal still stays at red and does not respond to the 6040 keyboard. I moved the dip switches on, off and on as you have suggested earlier with no change. Believe I will pick up a 76394 signal to fill the missing slot, even though I believe the 76494 is a better product. What I am hearing from our halfway around the world conversation is that I do not have enough available space on my keyboard for a 76494 signal. Also, it is very important to me that signals be in the same sequence on the keyboard as on my point to point layout.

I thank you for your advice. In my opinion, Maerklin has done a good job in upgrading their light signals, but did a poor job in explaining how they can be used by those of us with older systems. The instructions with the signal says that the procedure for programing with a 6021 Control Unit can be found at < www.maerlin.de.> Tools and Downloads.> Technische informationen . I can not find it there.

best regards

Tex



Offline clapcott  
#12 Posted : 09 September 2016 00:48:07(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I acknowledge , The diversionary discussion about address usage with multiple other signals was unnecessary.

I can see no reason why you should not be able to set up the 76494 as address 5(6) in the east west configuration you desire, and have written.

Short of confirming that your DIP switch 10 is OFF (OFF = 6021, ON=DCC) and that you are not reading the DIP switch block upside down, I can only suggest approaching a local colleague/club/dealer to have the unit checked out.


Peter
Offline Tex  
#13 Posted : 15 September 2016 22:18:47(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Peter

The problem was that my keyboard had an incorrect address ( #4 not #1 ). The 76494 worked correctly after the address was changed Thank you again for your help.

Tex
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Tex
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