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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#1 Posted : 11 July 2016 17:06:55(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,100
Location: CA, USA
Hi everyone,

As my current Bemo HOm craftsman-style layout nears completion (which should happen by end of the year!), I'm excited to get going on the next Marklin project, where each detail doesn't take 40 hours to do from scratch!

I have a small room dedicated to the job, which measures 9.5 feet by just under 8 feet. The entry door being on the 8 foot side. The plan for the layout is to build something genuinely fun and interesting, with multiple trains running continuously. Less about shunting, more about action for kids and visitors while I enjoy trains on parade and spend my time on scenery. Other requirements:

- A visible station with 2+ train storage.
- A few storage tracks for 5-6 x 27 cm passenger car sets with loco. (shattenbahnhof is fine for this as there isn't much room above-table)
- Some sort of elevation, ideally a bridge or two and some mountain tunnels
- Ideally two independant circuits, but I'm open to one very long one with signalling
- Simple construction from a woodworking point of view, I want to get trains up and running asap
- C track with Digital control. maybe one stray loop for analogue to run vintage locos
- Adding working accesories like cranes is a plus

I found the following plan in a random book I had, which critically fits the space and and offers a long-ish passenger station. (and can work around a small wall obstacle I have as well) However I feel there is both some hiccups and room for improvement as follows:

- It needs conversion to C track, any layout experts want to take a crack? I'd owe you a few beers!
- This is a good thing, but I can go a little bigger if needed to accomodate C track
- I have a hard time diciphering the main line. Looks like two independent oval circuits can be done, but there is the big parade track? It doesn't seem very logical, but the size and features do check a lot of my requirements off, I just can't wrap my head around how this track plan would work in operation?
- an exit down to hidden storage tracks should be easy enough, I can forgo sidings and shunting for this.

Thoughts on the plan and edits? Thanks in advance! For this one I'll start a proper thread with regular updates and images...

IMG_5253.JPGIMG_5256.JPGIMG_5255.JPGIMG_5257.JPGIMG_5254.JPG
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#2 Posted : 11 July 2016 19:14:26(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
The idea with the diagonal station an long bridge is appealing.

Tunnel traumata:
1) Turnouts in tunnel.
2) Two trains could run simultaneously by having one train follow the twisted dogbone route and another one circle in the middle; however, the routes of both trains regularly intersect in: yes, the tunnel.

2016-07-11_18-16-49.png
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#3 Posted : 11 July 2016 19:54:04(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,100
Location: CA, USA
EXACTLY why the plan made no sense to me- why would you intersect the two loops? My thoughts for alterations were as follows:

- Leave the inner "yard" loop in place
- Same effect for the "middle" direct loop (center station track and corresponding loop)
- Then I can take the bridge line and make it a reverse loop with switch where I have the word "chimney" below. When the train passes the station instead of joining the middle loop it goes down to the hidden station where there is another reverse loop alongside storage.

This enables 3 circuits, and if I get the signalling right 4 train operation with comfort. Also eliminates most potential tunnel problems. See attached for visual logic

IMG_5253.JPG

(I found the cars in the rear odd as they aren't on the plan, but I'm just working without that off the paper plan for now)
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 11 July 2016 21:09:17(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,210
Location: Montreal, QC
Have you considered some kind of U shaped layout? That way you could have mountains on one side and a station/yard/city on the other?
It would also give you more access to all points of the layout.

I think there were a few such layouts in the 1980s Layout Book.

Regards

Mike C
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#5 Posted : 11 July 2016 22:34:29(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,100
Location: CA, USA
Hi Mike,

i did briefly consider the "U", but the door arrangement meant Id really only get a short staging yard on one side, so this diagonal slant is a bit better. Layout access I'm not too worried about as I can plan in my reach areas.
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Online xxup  
#6 Posted : 11 July 2016 23:11:56(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,225
Location: Australia
Knock out the Chimney.. Why does anyone need a fireplace in California? Confused
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#7 Posted : 12 July 2016 19:37:10(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,100
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Knock out the Chimney.. Why does anyone need a fireplace in California? Confused


New York! I'd rip it but both landlord and FD might take issue...
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Offline Alsterstreek  
#8 Posted : 03 September 2016 15:39:42(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Any news on this front? Would you have the potential dimensions of the layout surface?

Thanks again for meeting me. I really enjoyed your company.
Offline Alsterstreek  
#9 Posted : 04 September 2016 03:35:59(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
How about this concept?
8x9-5 v2a.png

Two separate lines (1 continuous and 1 x dogbone).
Loooooong bridge.
Each train station track holds one loco plus six 27 cm coaches.
Cityscape separated from landscape (since station area is always stealing the show).
Easements galore to flatter coaches.
Arrangement of lower tracks marked in red could be adapted to have a coiled shadow station extending below the entire landscape section; further passing sidings could be coiled around the hidden two stacked reverse loops.
All turnouts easily to be reached.
Chimney indent accommodated.

Look with hidden track
8x9-5 v2b.png

Track list
gleisliste 8x9-5.png
Offline Alsterstreek  
#10 Posted : 04 September 2016 18:14:16(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
300x215x115 cm
b1.pngb0.png

300x230x100 cm (needed to be mirrored for your purpose)
a2.pnga0.png

300x300x300 cm (lower leg to be shortened to give room for your door)
i1.pngi4.pngi2.pngi0.png

Detailed track plans for sale here:
http://meisesmobacenter....e-H0/Gleisplaene-bis-3m/
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#11 Posted : 05 September 2016 00:01:45(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,100
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
How about this concept?

Two separate lines (1 continuous and 1 x dogbone).
Loooooong bridge.
Each train station track holds one loco plus six 27 cm coaches.
Cityscape separated from landscape (since station area is always stealing the show).
Easements galore to flatter coaches.
Arrangement of lower tracks marked in red could be adapted to have a coiled shadow station extending below the entire landscape section; further passing sidings could be coiled around the hidden two stacked reverse loops.
All turnouts easily to be reached.
Chimney indent accommodated.

Track list
gleisliste 8x9-5.png


So great seeing you in NY!

I LOVE it! how big is this concept? My size is limited to 285cm (288 wall to wall) x ~233cm

The door should not be an issue with this track placement, which is great!
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#12 Posted : 05 September 2016 21:37:31(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
296.2 cm x 246.2 cm ...
:o(
Offline Alsterstreek  
#13 Posted : 05 September 2016 21:43:46(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Now reduced to 282 x 233 cm.
:o)

I played around with the landscape, lifting the lower line out of obscurity and introducing a river valley. Further, I elaborated on the yard under the long bridge next to the station area.Regarding the upper left corner, I do not know how the ascending and descending track separated by the retaining wall will look like? Then the altitude of the "blops" is to be adjusted to minimize the slope of the ramp leaving the station on the right hand side.

8x9-5 v3a.png8x9-5 v3.png280x230stl.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#14 Posted : 05 September 2016 22:09:17(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
This should do the trick: extended descending ramp in red.
8x9-5 v3ab.png280x230v3stl.png

Edited by user 06 September 2016 22:11:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#15 Posted : 06 September 2016 03:21:57(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,100
Location: CA, USA
This could be it! You are a master! I am going to do some studying this week, and start scheming more details but I feel the concept, fit and landscaping ideas are wonderful!

To answer the retaining wall question in the upper left area, I think it will look fine and I know a few tricks to making them with a stone look. And being the eccentric that I am I bet I can weave in a few other features.

More to follow!
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#16 Posted : 06 September 2016 22:40:50(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Since I had second thoughts, I double-checked, and I was positively surprised to learn that, when the curved turnout was the first piece of track on a slope, respectively:
the bridge ramp until the five-track area would measure 250 cm (thus the two stub track need to "sink" slightly);
the left descent would measure 250 cm;
the right descent would measure 300 cm.

Then, on the "subway" level there is space for two R1 circles which allowed for single loops to store a train, respectively, or even helixes.

Finally, it should be noted that currently the distance between the station tracks does not allow for passenger platforms between the tracks. So either only the outer tracks 1 and 5 could be equipped with lateral passenger platforms, or else track design needed to be adjusted. As I considered this to be a feasibility study, I made it easy for myself. If desired, I could come up with a suggestion.
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#17 Posted : 07 September 2016 17:31:44(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,100
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Since I had second thoughts, I double-checked, and I was positively surprised to learn that, when the curved turnout was the first piece of track on a slope, respectively:
the bridge ramp until the five-track area would measure 250 cm (thus the two stub track need to "sink" slightly);
the left descent would measure 250 cm;
the right descent would measure 300 cm.

Then, on the "subway" level there is space for two R1 circles which allowed for single loops to store a train, respectively, or even helixes.

Finally, it should be noted that currently the distance between the station tracks does not allow for passenger platforms between the tracks. So either only the outer tracks 1 and 5 could be equipped with lateral passenger platforms, or else track design needed to be adjusted. As I considered this to be a feasibility study, I made it easy for myself. If desired, I could come up with a suggestion.


You can accomplish more layout design in an hour than I can in a month!

Excellent insights, I would actually drop to a shadow station I think instead of the two R1 storage circles. in addition I might add signalling for the main layout to have the option to run 2 shorter trains and make a total of 3 for lots of action!

Perhaps automate between two trains in the station on the dogbone loop and a few below via the shadow station for variety. But thats more electronics that I typically like to use.

Station platforms aren't mandatory- i can creatively give it a rural look.

More notes to follow after I do a test fitting this weekend!

FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#18 Posted : 07 September 2016 21:42:47(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Looking forward to the outcome of the week end testing.
:o)

Here is how the helixes could be placed and connected:
8x9-5 v3abc.png
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#19 Posted : 10 September 2016 17:56:05(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,100
Location: CA, USA
Hi everyone,

So the initial survey began this morning! I laid out most of the layout in the living room since the train room is, well, full of trains. I ran out of curved turnouts and a lot of the small filler pieces but I got a pretty good idea of things. Thoughts as follows:

The Good:

- I LOVE the plan. And the station length is great. Gap between trackage I don't suspect to be a concern either. Top design work by the master as always!
- A lot more wide radius curves than I expected!
- I thought it was missing a reversing loop until I realized the branch line had a pair of them- very clever!

The bad:
- I think the chimney indent will be a problem, only on the radius of the main curve into the station. This is the biggest concern, so I need to do some measuring and thinking there. (it begins 71-72cm in from the wall, extends outwards 20.4cm, and is 65cm wide)

The Questionable:
- It BARELY fits the space, but it should work. I need to test fit in the actual room once I have the rest of the required track pieces.
- The walkway is VERY tight, but I think it can work

Overall an excellent first pass. Next step is attempting to do it in the room, and sorting the chimney indent.
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#20 Posted : 11 September 2016 01:07:52(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Top design work by the master as always!
You make me blush. I am glad that you like it.

Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
...the chimney indent ...begins 71-72cm in from the wall, extends outwards 20.4cm, and is 65cm wide
Indeed a challenge. Even fitting a R1 curve is almost impossible - see snapshot. r1.png
I have to reflect on this to find an alternative.

Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
The walkway is VERY tight, but I think it can work
One could smuggle one or two 24130 (R1) pieces into the curves of the landscaped leg to increase aisle width.
Offline Alsterstreek  
#21 Posted : 11 September 2016 02:13:30(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Chimney considered & aisle width maintained: 283.7 x 233.1 cm
8x9-5 v4a.png280x230v3stl.png
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#22 Posted : 11 September 2016 21:20:35(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,100
Location: CA, USA
Wow! I don't even know how you did that! Flapper I literally can't even see the change. I@m chasing down some missing track and will test this next!
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Online xxup  
#23 Posted : 11 September 2016 23:28:29(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,225
Location: Australia
I hope that chimney does not get too hot or you might find a blob of plastic that used to be C-track.. Smile

Does anyone know the official melting point of C-track?
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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