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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#1 Posted : 02 July 2016 13:35:40(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 645
Hello,
there is a project in Germany, to use the Märklin MS2 track box (60113) as CS2-CAN-PC interface: http://lnxpps.de/bpi/

With this solution, You are able to
- control the locos from PC (with cs2.exe, Rocrail, Märklin MobileStation App, Märklin Main Station App, RemoteCS2 App, ...)
- modify mfx decoder settings (mapping, settings, ...) which is not possible with the MS2

What doesn't work:
- update mSD decoder firmware
- update mSD sound projects

The Solution:
The developer of this solution, Gerhard Bertelsmann, provides a small and simple circuit board and all necessary parts, to build the interface board, which fits perfectly onto the interface connectors of the Banana Pi M1 board:

Banana Pi with CAN interface board

On top, there is the interface board, below the Banana Pi. There are only a few parts to be soldered onto this interface card:

# main parts for the board with galvanic separation
U12 ISO1050
R20 120 Ohm SMD 0805
C18,C19 100nF SMD 0805
P1 2x13 Buchsenleiste
P3 1x4 Buchsenleiste
P4 1x6 Buchsenleiste
P19 1x2 Steckerleiste + Jumper
P21 1x3 Steckerleiste

# external Voltage regulator for the transceiver
C3,C4 100nF
U2 7805

# 5V current signal LED
D4 LED SMD 0805
R11 330 bis 470 Ohm SMD 0805

Caution:
The cs2.exe application on the PC must not be set as Auxiliary device!

UserPostedImage

This is my test environment:
On a heavy wooden plate I mounted
- the track box
- a CdB StartPoint 2 (not essential but helpfull)
- the Banana Pi M1
- the CAN interface board on top of the Banana Pi

The Track Box is connected to
- the MS2 (not essential but helpfull)
- the StartPoint 2

The StartPoint 2 has an own power supply (12 V) which can be used to supply the CAN interface board.

The Banana Pi is connected to
- the CAN bus of the StartPoint 2 (alternative You can connect directly to the CAN signal from Track Box)
- per LAN to a WiFi router (Fritz!Box 7050)

The Acer Aspire One is connected by WiFi to the WiFi router. The Märklin cs2.exe is running on this small mobile PC.

UserPostedImage

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Here, on bottom the Banana Pi M1 and on top the CAN interface board:

UserPostedImage

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Three power supplies, 5 V from violett USB cable for the Banana Pi, 12 V for the StartPunkt 2 (and via CAN bus for the CAN interface board) and 18 V for the Track Box:

UserPostedImage

CS2 screen shots:

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Modification to use mobile apps
To enable the Mobile Apps to communicate with the Banana Pi, You have to copy specific files and folders from Your PCs CS2 softwares working folder to the Banana Pi:

Here, You find Your local working folder:

UserPostedImage

Target: /www/config
C:\Program Files\Maerklin\CS2\*.cs2
C:\Program Files\Maerklin\CS2\gleisbilder

Target: /www

C:\Program Files\Maerklin\CS2\icons
C:\Program Files\Maerklin\CS2\fcticons
C:\Program Files\Maerklin\CS2\magicons_

I use WinSCP to execute this copy job. You have to set SCP as transport protocol:

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Once You have finished and restartet the Banana Pi, You can use the Android Apps RemoteCS2 (freeware or Pro Version) and the Märklin MobileStation App (5,99€) or Märklin Main Station App (10,99€ for Tablets) to control the locos:

RemoteCS2

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Märklin MobileStation App

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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#2 Posted : 02 July 2016 13:53:49(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 645
Demo Video:
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 02 July 2016 18:10:03(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3,725
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
Hello,
there is a project in Germany, to use the Märklin MS2 track box (60113) as CS2-CAN-PC interface: http://lnxpps.de/bpi/


There was a thread recently where someone was wanting to do this, as they didn't want the expense of a cs2.

If you can find that thread probably worth putting a link to this one for him.

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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#4 Posted : 09 August 2016 11:03:13(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 645
Hello,
meanwhile I tested another software solution, which works very well with the Banana Pi and the CAN adapter board, the MRSystem from Michael Bernstein: http://www.mbernstein.de/modellbahn/bpi.htm

The Model Railroad System from Michael Bernstein

The MRSystem is provided as image file for a SD card, which must be plugged into the Banana Pi. That's all! It is not necessary to connect a PC with the Märklin CS2.exe to the network. The Banana Pi, a MS2 with Track Box and a LAN/WiFi router is all You need!

Read Loklist from MS2
On each restart of the MRSystem, it reads the lokomotive list from the connected MS2. This lokomotive list (lokomotive.cs2) is the central info file for connected clients (MS2, CS2, Mobile Apps like RemoteCS2, Märklin MobileStation).

Webconfig
The MRSystem can be configured and restarted by an WEB interface, which provides some basic settings: http://mbernstein.de/modellbahn/konfig_web.htm

Bugfixes
The latest version mrsystem V2.3 contains some bugs, which are fixed now, but not yet released in a new version. I can provide the fixed source files and then the system can be recompiled on the running Banana Pi.

While the communication is based on the CAN protocol, it is very easy to switch between the hardware control (MS2, CS2) and mobile controls (RemoteCS2, Märklin MobileStation) or PC control (Märklin CS2.exe).

The complete solution is now very stable and reasonably priced.
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#5 Posted : 09 August 2016 18:29:30(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 645
UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
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Offline Purellum  
#6 Posted : 09 August 2016 20:30:52(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,743
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Very interesting, please keep us updated on this.

I don't have much "playtime" at the moment; but always find things like this exiting.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#7 Posted : 10 August 2016 08:55:33(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 645
What You need and the costs:

To run this solution, You need at least
(1) a Mobile Station 2 (MS2) with Track Box and power supply
(2) a WiFi router
(3) a smart phone or tablet
(4) a Banana Pi
(5) the CAN interface board from Gerhard Bertelsmann: http://lnxpps.de/bpi/
(6) optional a CAN "StartPunkt 2": http://www.can-digital-b...ys3&modul=47#Mod_Top

I assume, that You already have (1) - (3).

Then, the only things, You need to purchase are the Banana Pi and the CAN interface board. Optional You may buy the CAN "StartPunkt 2", which makes it easier to connect the Track Box to the Banana Pi.

Costs:
- (4) Banana Pi M1: 36€
- (5) CAN interface Board from Gerhard Bertelsmann: 14€
- (6) CdB "StartPunkt 2": 19€

Total: 50€ - 69€

For the Banana Pi and the "StartPunkt 2", an additional power supply is required!
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#8 Posted : 09 September 2016 13:20:07(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 645
Hello,
next step was to equip the Banana Pi with brass bar spacers:

UserPostedImage

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Schematic connection layout

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This is how it would look like with a CAN RJ45 port in the Trackbox:

UserPostedImage

I used the small SbbN connection board from Gerd to fit the RJ45 port into my Trackbox:

UserPostedImage

The CAN signal and the 18V voltage can be taken from the MS2-10-Pol-Mini-DIN ports from the lower MS2 board:

UserPostedImage

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The CdB StartPunkt 2 doesn't need a seperate power source, now. Because it is feeded from the Trackbox power from the CAN bus. It is recommended to use a power supply with more then 36W, to have enough power for the tracks.

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PIN Connections of the RJ45 plug and port

For the correct pin connectors, You can have a look into the documents from CAN digital Bahn Projekt:

Das CAN digital Bahn Projekt

Pin connections of the S88N board and the RJ45 port:

UserPostedImage

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Quelle: CAN digital Bahn Projekt
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Offline Minok  
#9 Posted : 23 February 2017 21:32:37(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
What You need and the costs:

To run this solution, You need at least
(1) a Mobile Station 2 (MS2) with Track Box and power supply
(2) a WiFi router
(3) a smart phone or tablet
(4) a Banana Pi
(5) the CAN interface board from Gerhard Bertelsmann: http://lnxpps.de/bpi/
(6) optional a CAN "StartPunkt 2": http://www.can-digital-b...ys3&modul=47#Mod_Top

I assume, that You already have (1) - (3).

Then, the only things, You need to purchase are the Banana Pi and the CAN interface board. Optional You may buy the CAN "StartPunkt 2", which makes it easier to connect the Track Box to the Banana Pi.

Costs:
- (4) Banana Pi M1: 36€
- (5) CAN interface Board from Gerhard Bertelsmann: 14€
- (6) CdB "StartPunkt 2": 19€

Total: 50€ - 69€

For the Banana Pi and the "StartPunkt 2", an additional power supply is required!



I'm going to make the jump into this as saving $700 in purchasing a CS3 (or I assume $500 in purchasing a late model CS2), considering I don't plan on using the layout/control features of a CS beyond it interfacing from WinDigipet/TrainController to the track (or having mobile apps on my phone talking to manual controll trains). I can buy a lot of track with that saved money.

I've read on the German thread ( http://www.h0-modellbahn...Zentrale.html#msg3770351 ) that he repurposed the S88N adapter board by installing it into the trackbox (hardware hack ) so that the power from the trackbox can be used to power the "StartPunkt 2" (with the caution of not using other active CdB-CAN products as you are now distributing the 18v from the trackbox on the CAN bus wires and some of those additional components need 12v). So by patching into the trackbox one can pull out its power feed as well, saving one more power supply.

The need for the StartPunkt 2 though isn't clear.. its 'optional' but always mentioned. What is additionally needed if one doesn't want to use a StartPunkt 2?

I know Gerhard's daughter board has lots of additional functionality that can be enabled by installing the other bits... does one of those come into play?

So I'll do another build of this solution and configure two SD cards - one with Gerhard's CS2.exe dependent image (for use with WDP/TC) and one with Michael's image to allow the Banana Pi solution to simply interface with the MS2 app on my iPhone so I can run my Xmas tree train or carpet bahn without needing to pull out a laptop as well.

Oh, final question, have you tested the S88N interface for actual S88 sensing? Did you just plug in Märklin S88 AC (or DC) modules via the RJ45 connection?

OK, ok, ONE more question: The hardware bits I need to acquire are clear... except for the cabling.
What cables do I need? Cat5E I can build with parts at home all day long, but cables that have various DIN style plugs on them and other less common ones, what do I need to acquire here?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
Offline Minok  
#10 Posted : 01 March 2017 20:30:33(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The new circuit boards are out, including a new mini-board designed to be installed INTO the trackbox so that one doesn't have to tie up and futz with the more expensive and valuable DIN cables, instead using a RJ45 Cat5 type plug.

So there are 4 boards in the batch, the Banana Pi daughter board (upper left, the large board), the trackbox board (the one with J5 in the upper right), and
the two lower ones: bottom right= Distributor board: 3 x MiniDIN10 and 2x RJ45; bottom left = S88 adapter board

UserPostedImage
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline bertc3p0  
#11 Posted : 12 March 2017 07:41:53(UTC)
bertc3p0

Germany   
Joined: 03/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: HESSEN, FRANKFURT
Thanks Minok and Moritz for your promotion :-) More Infos here: BananaPi Gleisbox

The link contains information to get the PCB. If you need a single PCB and components, feel free to contact me.

Regards

Gerd
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 12 March 2017 23:27:24(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3,725
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bertc3p0 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Minok and Moritz for your promotion :-) More Infos here: BananaPi Gleisbox

The link contains information to get the PCB. If you need a single PCB and components, feel free to contact me.

Regards

Gerd


But where does one get the mini-DIN connectors? I did a pretty extensive search some years ago and the 10 pin connector seems to be made of unobtanium. The 9 and 8 pin ones seem to be close relations.

Offline bertc3p0  
#13 Posted : 13 March 2017 05:20:44(UTC)
bertc3p0

Germany   
Joined: 03/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: HESSEN, FRANKFURT
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bertc3p0 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Minok and Moritz for your promotion :-) More Infos here: BananaPi Gleisbox

The link contains information to get the PCB. If you need a single PCB and components, feel free to contact me.

But where does one get the mini-DIN connectors? I did a pretty extensive search some years ago and the 10 pin connector seems to be made of unobtanium. The 9 and 8 pin ones seem to be close relations.

You get them here:
https://de.aliexpress.co...114.47010508.4.24.gr5rkj

or from me for 1 Euro each plus shipping. I've ordered a bunch of them directly from a manufacture.

Regards

Gerd
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Offline Minok  
#14 Posted : 13 March 2017 21:45:54(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
For the cable end that plugs INTO the trackbox (if your not doing the RJ45 to the trackbox modification route) then the Märklin E146781 MS2 cable is a good solution, especially if you can secure the pre-molded strain relief to the BananaPi kit in some way.

E146781.PNG
Toys of tin and wood rule!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 15 March 2017 22:11:47(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3,725
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Ah, good, thanks.
Offline pasoanivel  
#16 Posted : 22 March 2018 13:05:16(UTC)
pasoanivel


Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Hello,

thats a really interesting development. I'm an user of the MS2 and track box and I'm following this item during a lot of time. Today, I was cliking on the link: http://lnxpps.de/bpi/ but my surprise is that the screen is appearing in white, witout information.

What had it happened? Aren't there possibility of get the PCB's or the SD image software, Or the schematic of the can interface?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Javier
Offline Minok  
#17 Posted : 22 March 2018 18:50:58(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Er, that is a problem, and I noticed the threads related to the effort have completely disappeared from the Stummis Forum as well. Something foul is afoot.

Looks like administrative nonsense have derailed things: https://www.stummiforum....mp;hilit=banana#p1809043

If one can get past the idiotic and counter-open-forum behavior of the moderators at Stummi, one finds on another thread on a website
( http://modellbauhuette.d...n-gleisbox-als-zentrale/ )

the information "Leider geht Märklin aktuell gegen diese frei verfügbare Lösung mit anwaltlichen Abmahnschreiben vor."

So apparently Märklin is taking legal action against the whole project and causing and and all websites that have this information take the information down. A shame really, if that is true.

The combination of alleged legal threats from Märklin's lawyers, combined with the heavy-handed a-hole* like behavior of the Stummi forum has quashed the whole thing's visibility.

The legal environment in Germany combined with the way the admins at Stummi function result in: "Nothing to see here, stop asking questions about where your neighbor disappeared to, its none of your business". OK, not a good place to be a maker. Maybe the project needs to be hosted off of a US based web server, were such repressive behavior won't fly.

I've already sent an email to Gerhard (the developer of the solution) letting him know that Germany clearly indicated to me I'm not subject to German law living abroad, and that I'd gladly do what I can to help get the project up and on the internet again outside of Germany. Whether Gerhard can/will respond as he is inside of Germany and subject to German law, is yet to be seen.



*: I make that assertion based on the admin's response to users of the forum suggesting that in an open forum it would be better that the admins posted in an open way, why a long standing thread was taken down, rather than quash it out of existence and suppress any discussion around the topic in a public way, with his "Du hast in diesem Forum keine Anrechte auf irgend etwas!" - that is, "You as users are not entitled to anything!" Clearly a tone-deaf site admin.
From https://www.stummiforum....mp;hilit=banana#p1809043

Capture.PNG
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#18 Posted : 22 March 2018 21:16:06(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,062
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Er, that is a problem, and I noticed the threads related to the effort have completely disappeared from the Stummis Forum as well. Something foul is afoot.


Pity that the Stummi admins are acting in a somewhat officious manner. Maybe he is under pressure from legal threats from parties who don't want it known that they are making threats.

However, like lots of things on the internet someone may try to delete stuff, but it is never ever really completely gone.....

In this case it is possible to retrieve cached versions of the website, and I would suggest folks do this before the cached copies disappear.

https://web.archive.org/...34/http://lnxpps.de/bpi/

This is the latest cached copy I can find - 18 September 2017. Other cached copies can be found at https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://lnxpps.de/bpi/
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Offline Minok  
#19 Posted : 22 March 2018 21:36:21(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
I'd gotten a response from Gerhard, the developer. Indeed a law firm on behalf of Märklin, is alleging that the project has violated the license and intellectual property of the CS2.exe software by running some subset of the Märklin code in the software that is being distributed on the BananaPi project. That is nonsense, and the lawyers are addressing it. I assume that the full data will be back up at some point. The only thing that might come out of this is that the project gets pushed out of Germany so that German law doesn't apply anymore.

For what its worth, the code and projects are available on GitHub, so they will live on. I'm putting the links here to provide some backstop on the Stummi clampdown.
https://github.com/GBert/misc/tree/master/BPi-CAN
https://github.com/GBert...road/tree/master/can2udp

The Gestapo like behavior of the Stummi forum admins (nothing to see, stop asking question and move along) be it the consequence of judicial orders or just stupid admin behavior certainly leave a bad taste in ones mouth. In the US, that sort of supression would only come from a national security letter where the government's secret courts have issued an order that also forbids any mention that you received such an order. Thats what this feels like in the way its being carried out at Stummi and beyond (as the website itself has replaced the pages with blank pages). Its easier to do that, but I'd have expected the replacement to not be blank, but at least say "there is a legal situation being investigated - once that is clarified we will be back". Something, anything other than disappearing into the night without a peep.

In the end I'm pretty confident the project will live on. Somewhere else if need be. Some other forum, some other country. Nothing against Märklin making the legal challenge if they feel their Intellectual Property had been violated, as well they should do in that case.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Unholz  
#20 Posted : 23 March 2018 08:14:07(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,075
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post

The Gestapo like behavior of the Stummi forum admins (nothing to see, stop asking question and move along) be it the consequence of judicial orders or just stupid admin behavior certainly leave a bad taste in ones mouth.

Unfortunately, this is the common behavior and "style" of Mr. Stumm and his bunch of admins. In that forum, every even mildly critical question with regard to actions of the management is answered with rebukes such as "if you don't like it here, then leave" or "this is Stumm's private forum, he sets the rules, and members are just a flood of unwelcome entrants". Sadly, every time something like the actions mentioned in this thread happens, a bunch of crawlers begin to devotedly command admiration for the great forum "Fü...r", and the critics are then more or less arrogantly forced to leave.

What a difference to this forum and its wise webmaster! ThumpUp BigGrin

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Offline pasoanivel  
#21 Posted : 23 March 2018 10:51:33(UTC)
pasoanivel


Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Thank you very much for your quick answer and your good information. Love I have in mind to get a BananaPI and make a simple interface. But when I saw the lost of information I was very surprised. I was looking for information of the project in other sites and the same situation. Confused

I've done a backup of the Github links and the last cached copy, including all files linked inside except the "DHCP server image" for SD card, that it's not available in the cached copies. Not all it's lost Laugh

Minok, If you continue with the project live outside of Germany, I could collaborate translating the information to the Spanish language.Wink This is a great project and it would be a pitty that it will be forgotten.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#22 Posted : 23 March 2018 12:28:13(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3,725
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Er, that is a problem, and I noticed the threads related to the effort have completely disappeared from the Stummis Forum as well. Something foul is afoot.


Pity that the Stummi admins are acting in a somewhat officious manner. Maybe he is under pressure from legal threats from parties who don't want it known that they are making threats.

However, like lots of things on the internet someone may try to delete stuff, but it is never ever really completely gone.....

In this case it is possible to retrieve cached versions of the website, and I would suggest folks do this before the cached copies disappear.

https://web.archive.org/...34/http://lnxpps.de/bpi/

This is the latest cached copy I can find - 18 September 2017. Other cached copies can be found at https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://lnxpps.de/bpi/


Some of the pages still seem to exist. The wayback header shows the web address if the original page still exists and you can copy that into another tab to get the original page.

I found I had to do that as wayback hadn't downloaded the zip files with the various versions of software, but doing this allowed me to get at the original page to do so.

I suspect only the 'front page' of the project has been removed (possibly renamed so you can still get to it if you know the web address) but the rest seems to still be there.
Offline Minok  
#23 Posted : 23 March 2018 18:21:23(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Yeah, most of the data is still on the server in question, and was just moved to quickly satisfy the legal demands until things are resolved. The image of the latest THT (through hole technology) board I posted above is just a link to the actual image on the project's own server.

I'm feeling pretty confident that the project be back visible, its just a question of where and when. The only downside could be the loss of the long threads on the control daughter card, and the long thread on the booster card on Stummi, but as much of that data is overcome by events, only a few posts would really be critical. (the intro, what is it post, and a few of the 'when this seems to malfunction, then check this' post for troubleshooting).

Thinking about Märklin's objectives, its hard to know what is going on. If you own IP (Intellectual Property) in most countries you are obligated to make an effort to protect that IP if you see there is possible violation, because if you don't do anything, your legal recourse may disappear and you lose the IP protections, such as it is in the US. So if Märklin feel there's a chance their CS2 code or other IP is embedded in the software of the project, the absolutely need to clarify if it is and if so have that removed so they can continue to have legal protections for that IP. Another possibility is Märklin sees the project cutting into CS3 sales in the future. That doesn't seem likely enough to have the quash the project, but managers make very illogical decisions some times. The project fills a niche of folks that want computer control and don't want to spend a bunch of money on a complex hardware controller that only serves as a data signal pass-through. If Märklin had or would produce such a module at a reasonable price ($200) I think it would sell well. Making their Central Stations modular where the added control, display and buttons would snap onto the top of that cheaper box would be an interesting solution. But that's just guessing, so I'm not jumping to conclusions on why the lawyers got involved.

The legal system is very odd thing in how the are different in differing countries. Copyright and IP (and data protection ) are very strong in Germany so that its good for the person but somewhat dampens innovation, while in the US its a bit looser and has more carve-outs ("fair use" for example) but that makes personal data massively less secure due to lack of regulation. So as I contemplate where to back up my personal computers to a cloud storage, I'm strongly considering using the Amazon cloud servers in Germany to ensure US agencies don't have easy access to them without my knowing, while project and web stuff I want to host in the US where it requires court level proof before anything is required to be taken down.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
Offline Minok  
#24 Posted : 23 March 2018 18:24:05(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: pasoanivel Go to Quoted Post

Minok, If you continue with the project live outside of Germany, I could collaborate translating the information to the Spanish language.Wink This is a great project and it would be a pitty that it will be forgotten.


My intent was to help the project owner set up a non .de site in what limited ways I could, not necessarily to be a developer; those bare metal days are behind me I think.

What you should do is contact the project owner ( Gerhard Bertelsmann <info@gerhard-bertelsmann.de> )and offer to do some translations, maybe he's interested in that service.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
Offline H0  
#25 Posted : 23 March 2018 19:33:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,199
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
The Gestapo like behavior of the Stummi forum admins (nothing to see, stop asking question and move along) be it the consequence of judicial orders or just stupid admin behavior certainly leave a bad taste in ones mouth.
The operators of the Stummi forum try everything to stay out of legal trouble and they delete/hide posts early.

The legal situation is simple: if the German operator of a forum hosted in Germany is informed about illegal content of the forum then he has to remove the content quickly to avoid liability.
With respect to freedom of speech I think they sometimes delete posts that are clearly covered by the right.
But I can understand they don't take any risk when it is about copyright infringement and similar matters.

With respect to communicating such deletions the moderators often act in a way that really leaves a bad taste. In some cases there may have been a history - users that already were on a blacklist may get harder responses than others.
But mentioning the Gestapo also leaves a bad taste.

With an open source project it should be easy to verify if there are infringements in the source code. You cannot expect this from every forum operator, so I still think it is OK to hide the thread to be on the safe side.

OTOH the CS2 is a closed source project that uses some GPL code. One could ask if they publish all the source code they must publish to comply with the GPL.

Our highly esteemed Webmaster also received letters from Mother M.'s legal department for having "marklin" in the URL. He didn't give in.
I know from own experience that the heart is beating fast when you read such a letter.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Minok  
#26 Posted : 23 March 2018 19:52:57(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Tom,

I fully agree, that taking down the treads while the legal question is being resolved is the right thing to do; Ive got no issues at all there.
The problem is in how the admins did it and how they responded to user queries wondering "where did the threads go". That is where Stummi and co just stepped into it majorly.
Believe me, as a German I didn't use the reference to the Gestapo lightly, but the reaction from not just the owner but fellow admins exactly matches that behavior: "the thread is gone and you have no expectation of getting any information about why it disappeared and stop asking us, move along" (my interpretation of what they provided as feedback. A hiding of the thread with a redirect to any posts on the tread showing a page that said simply "the thread is suspended while a legal question between the OP and Märklin are resolved" would have prevented the entire bru-ha-ha from blowing up. Its not the reaction to the lawyer's requests, but how they responded to the request and then responded to the users inquiries that is the issue.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline pasoanivel  
#27 Posted : 23 March 2018 22:09:03(UTC)
pasoanivel


Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: pasoanivel Go to Quoted Post

Minok, If you continue with the project live outside of Germany, I could collaborate translating the information to the Spanish language.Wink This is a great project and it would be a pitty that it will be forgotten.


My intent was to help the project owner set up a non .de site in what limited ways I could, not necessarily to be a developer; those bare metal days are behind me I think.

What you should do is contact the project owner ( Gerhard Bertelsmann <info@gerhard-bertelsmann.de> )and offer to do some translations, maybe he's interested in that service.


Ok, I had understood your idea. Probably, I expressed it wrongly generating a misunderstanding. My English is not as good as I would like. My idea was translate to spanish the site that you was to set up for the project owner.

And yes, I'm going to send him an email and if he is interested in it, I'll do.
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Offline pasoanivel  
#28 Posted : 12 April 2018 21:39:50(UTC)
pasoanivel


Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Hi all, the sites are available again.

- http://lnxpps.de/bpi/ in German
- http://lnxpps.de/bpie/ in English

Finally, I spoke with Gerhard and I'll translate the site to Spanish.

Regards,
Javier Nieto
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#29 Posted : 25 April 2018 14:22:27(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I fully agree, that taking down the treads while the legal question is being resolved is the right thing to do; Ive got no issues at all there.
The problem is in how the admins did it and how they responded to user queries wondering "where did the threads go". That is where Stummi and co just stepped into it majorly.


That is the basic problem, that there are no moderators on Stummiforum but only smart-alleck admins. The admins answer very often in an unfriendly way, a normal user would have been kicked off the forum if he would write in the same rude way.

There is a big disbalance between the high competence of several users there and the incompetence of the adminsBigGrin
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Offline bertc3p0  
#30 Posted : 30 April 2018 20:02:18(UTC)
bertc3p0

Germany   
Joined: 03/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: HESSEN, FRANKFURT
Hi,

the lawyers (Märklins and mine) mailed each other and we are now back to normal business IMHO. As a result I will not use any part of the CS2 Software on the BPi (btw: which wasn't true anyway) and not answering any questions about CS2.exe Software itself.

Nevertheless the BananaPi/Board + can2lan is working fine together with:
    Rocrail
    iTrain
    Win-Digipet
    RemoteCS2

and any other software which use the CS2 Gateway functionality.

Regards

Gerd
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Offline Webmaster  
#31 Posted : 30 April 2018 20:58:05(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,771
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
There is a big disbalance between the high competence of several users there and the incompetence of the admins BigGrin


I hope you find this forum better moderated regarding respect for real world knowledge among members... Smile

@Gerd - I hope this did not cost you too much, whenever lawyers are involved you are at risk ending up in the poorhouse... Sad
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Minok  
#32 Posted : 30 April 2018 21:03:51(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: bertc3p0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

the lawyers (Märklins and mine) mailed each other and we are now back to normal business IMHO. As a result I will not use any part of the CS2 Software on the BPi (btw: which wasn't true anyway) and not answering any questions about CS2.exe Software itself.


That is great news indeed. So if I understand it, the conclusion of this is that you have promised to not do any thing that you were already not doing? So nothing about the project or its programming has changed at all correct?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#33 Posted : 01 May 2018 12:21:53(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
There is a big disbalance between the high competence of several users there and the incompetence of the admins BigGrin


I hope you find this forum better moderated regarding respect for real world knowledge among members... Smile


Yes of course, it is! BigGrin

Regards,
Moritz

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Offline bertc3p0  
#34 Posted : 04 May 2018 17:02:34(UTC)
bertc3p0

Germany   
Joined: 03/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: HESSEN, FRANKFURT
Hi,
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post

@Gerd - I hope this did not cost you too much, whenever lawyers are involved you are at risk ending up in the poorhouse... Sad

that's true - but luckily Märklin arguments are weak and they don't wanted to escalate and getting a bad image.
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bertc3p0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

the lawyers (Märklins and mine) mailed each other and we are now back to normal business IMHO. As a result I will not use any part of the CS2 Software on the BPi (btw: which wasn't true anyway) and not answering any questions about CS2.exe Software itself.

That is great news indeed. So if I understand it, the conclusion of this is that you have promised to not do any thing that you were already not doing? So nothing about the project or its programming has changed at all correct?

The only mistake I have made was to provide a script which copies icons and text files from their software onto the BananaPi. That's not necessary for running a programm I don't use and talk about anymore.
It was kind of bizarre which arguments they have stated. The only good thing was that they weren't interested to hurt me seriously all the time. My lawyer said that this was unusual.

Quintessence:
Please respect Märklins license when you are using their equipment or software.

Regards

Gerd
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Offline TEEWolf  
#35 Posted : 05 May 2018 03:10:59(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,080
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: bertc3p0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
the lawyers (Märklins and mine) mailed each other and we are now back to normal business IMHO. As a result I will not use any part of the CS2 Software on the BPi (btw: which wasn't true anyway) and not answering any questions about CS2.exe Software itself.

That is great news indeed. So if I understand it, the conclusion of this is that you have promised to not do any thing that you were already not doing? So nothing about the project or its programming has changed at all correct?
The only mistake I have made was to provide a script which copies icons and text files from their software onto the BananaPi. That's not necessary for running a programm I don't use and talk about anymore.
It was kind of bizarre which arguments they have stated. The only good thing was that they weren't interested to hurt me seriously all the time. My lawyer said that this was unusual.

Quintessence:
Please respect Märklins license when you are using their equipment or software.

Regards

Gerd


Ah, now I understand why Märklin deleted the CS2.exe software from its homepage. But what can we do now, when we want connect our CS with a computer and a external screen?
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Crazy Harry  
#36 Posted : 05 May 2018 04:17:58(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 224
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Ah, now I understand why Märklin deleted the CS2.exe software from its homepage. But what can we do now, when we want connect our CS with a computer and a external screen?


Wasn't CS2.exe replaced with a newer version CS2-4-2-1-setup.exe? Or am I missing the point you are trying to make?

Quote from maerklin.de under CS2 updates: "Die Software CS2-4-2-1-setup.exe für das Windows-Betriebssystem und die Software CS2.dmg für das Mac-Betriebssystem finden Sie hier im Download-Bereich (bitte Lizenzbedingungen akzeptieren)."

Regards,

Harold.

Offline MaerklinLife  
#37 Posted : 05 May 2018 07:28:27(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 360
Yeah that is the one. It has not been removed, just updated.
Offline Minok  
#38 Posted : 05 May 2018 23:13:34(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Will the stummi thread be deactivated at some point?
http://www.stummiforum.d...pic.php?f=7&t=133541
Toys of tin and wood rule!
Offline TEEWolf  
#39 Posted : 06 May 2018 02:20:58(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,080
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Ah, now I understand why Märklin deleted the CS2.exe software from its homepage. But what can we do now, when we want connect our CS with a computer and a external screen?


Wasn't CS2.exe replaced with a newer version CS2-4-2-1-setup.exe? Or am I missing the point you are trying to make?

Quote from maerklin.de under CS2 updates: "Die Software CS2-4-2-1-setup.exe für das Windows-Betriebssystem und die Software CS2.dmg für das Mac-Betriebssystem finden Sie hier im Download-Bereich (bitte Lizenzbedingungen akzeptieren)."

Regards,

Harold.



Indeed I expected getting an update of the CS2 software, but instead of the updated software a message occured with the remark "no available page", indeed very strange. Now the prior download link "CS2-4-2-1-setup.exe" is cancelled and a download link in the section "Download CS 2 Update" was set up. However it looks like that the updated software (which I originally was looking for) seems to be available now.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
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Offline Minok  
#40 Posted : 06 May 2018 04:40:27(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
If this is what i remember reading a about it was that there were instructions on how to copy the icons folder content of the installed cs2.exe into a similar folder on the Linux device so that the web interface would look right or some such thing.

Nothing was bundled into the BananaPi software , just instructions on where on ones own systems one could find icons for own use.

I understand the legal requirements to defend your up if it is being abused by another product or distribution. But to aggressively go after personal reuse in your own computers is a very odd and often German thing it seems.

We had some instance in the US of this when the television industry attempted to prevent people who owned VCRs from recording and playing back the TV broadcasts they had received. The courts here settled that by clarifying that such personal use was covered by US "for use" sections of the copyright act. German law is substantially different as I keep finding out on Stummi's when I try to clarify a post with a simple photo from the internet. I recall the problems I had in the late 1990's trying to track down the Top40 music signees from the 1970's and 80's in Germany. They are not to be found.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
Offline pasoanivel  
#41 Posted : 15 August 2018 14:08:44(UTC)
pasoanivel


Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Hi,

I've finished the spanish translation and Gerhard has published in his site.

The link to the Spanish site is: http://lnxpps.de/bpi_esp/

Best regards,
Javier
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Offline Minok  
#42 Posted : 15 August 2018 22:02:32(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,637
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
In other news, the sister project to that, a booster to use with this track-box unit, has had some improvement - Gerhard has solved a long-standing bug pertaining to the pass-through correctly of the MFX signalling.

https://stummiforum.de/v...1&view=unread#unread
Toys of tin and wood rule!
Offline jstraka  
#43 Posted : 06 December 2018 10:27:36(UTC)
jstraka

United States   
Joined: 04/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany
This may be a long shot but... This seems like a really great solution for in between a Mobile Station and a Central Station but I am lacking in the skills to create such a device. Is it possible or would anyone be willing to help create such a solution? I am certainly more than willing to compensate for time and materials.

Thanks
Offline kiwiAlan  
#44 Posted : 06 December 2018 18:53:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3,725
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: jstraka Go to Quoted Post
This may be a long shot but... This seems like a really great solution for in between a Mobile Station and a Central Station but I am lacking in the skills to create such a device. Is it possible or would anyone be willing to help create such a solution? I am certainly more than willing to compensate for time and materials.

Thanks


You can plug a mobile station straight into a central station, what is your object in attempting to use this adaptor?

Offline jstraka  
#45 Posted : 06 December 2018 18:57:58(UTC)
jstraka

United States   
Joined: 04/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jstraka Go to Quoted Post
This may be a long shot but... This seems like a really great solution for in between a Mobile Station and a Central Station but I am lacking in the skills to create such a device. Is it possible or would anyone be willing to help create such a solution? I am certainly more than willing to compensate for time and materials.

Thanks


You can plug a mobile station straight into a central station, what is your object in attempting to use this adaptor?



Sorry, I meant in lieu of purchasing a CS, not physically in between.
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