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Offline kiwiAlan  
#51 Posted : 15 May 2016 20:24:07(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I am amazed at the number of people that don't even realise the studs are there.

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Offline baggio  
#52 Posted : 15 May 2016 20:25:34(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I am amazed at the number of people that don't even realise the studs are there.



... until they try to assemble K track! Ouch!!! LOL
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Offline I_love_Marklin_37538  
#53 Posted : 15 May 2016 23:03:15(UTC)
I_love_Marklin_37538


Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 951
Location: ,
Also surprising or not, Marklin has a pretty big following in Japan as well, also last time i visited Japan, Marklin 3-rail is also quite popular in Japan
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Offline Legless  
#54 Posted : 16 May 2016 02:45:01(UTC)
Legless

Australia   
Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 809
Location: Leopold, Victoria
To me a puko is a Marklin signature 👍
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#55 Posted : 16 May 2016 10:28:13(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
........
So... I think that M. staying with 3-rail is more a political business choice. During almost a 100 years, they have built up a standard and user-base, wich holds 50% of the home marked. And M. controls this standard!
I repeat; Märklin is basically offereing everything in 2-rail too, under the Trix name. But in FIERCE competition with the rest of the manufactureres. And it is NOT selling in great numbers among the 2-rail users...


Hi Henrik,
Yes, very good point.
I believe the reverse happened in the late 1950s, when Hornby Dublo (UK) decided to offer 2 rail products, and gradually phase out their 3 rail.
It was King of the Hill since 1938, and their customers just did not respond as they should.
2 rail was dominated by cheaper brands anyway.
Hornby Dublo in trouble was taken over in 1964.

I doubt Maerklin will make the same mistake.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Bart  
#56 Posted : 16 May 2016 12:11:27(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
I feel time has come now for a new phase for Märklin: Move the center rail down under the track bedding and use inductive transfer.
Why have we been making our cuppa using inductive water boilers for 10 years, and still rely on contact (or lack thereof) through 1,2, or 3 rails? OhMyGod
*Bart
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Offline RayF  
#57 Posted : 16 May 2016 12:15:55(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
I feel time has come now for a new phase for Märklin: Move the center rail down under the track bedding and use inductive transfer.
Why have we been making our cuppa using inductive water boilers for 10 years, and still rely on contact (or lack thereof) through 1,2, or 3 rails? OhMyGod


Good luck with making that work!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Bart  
#58 Posted : 16 May 2016 12:22:30(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
I feel time has come now for a new phase for Märklin: Move the center rail down under the track bedding and use inductive transfer.
Why have we been making our cuppa using inductive water boilers for 10 years, and still rely on contact (or lack thereof) through 1,2, or 3 rails? OhMyGod


Good luck with making that work!


For a company trying to innovate and move the field forward, as they did with C-track, mfx, c-sine (whether successfully or not), it may be worthwhile putting those German engineers at work.
*Bart
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Offline RayF  
#59 Posted : 16 May 2016 12:28:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
I feel time has come now for a new phase for Märklin: Move the center rail down under the track bedding and use inductive transfer.
Why have we been making our cuppa using inductive water boilers for 10 years, and still rely on contact (or lack thereof) through 1,2, or 3 rails? OhMyGod


Good luck with making that work!


For a company trying to innovate and move the field forward, as they did with C-track, mfx, c-sine (whether successfully or not), it may be worthwhile putting those German engineers at work.


I'm sure it's possible, but its a far cry from boiling a stationary cup of water to transferring power to several moving trains, complete with digital control signals. Do they really want to spend massive amounts of money on R & D for a concept that might be expensive to put into practice anyway? I don't think we are going to see this happen in today's economic climate.

However, I could be wrong. Stranger things have happened in the past. BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Rwill  
#60 Posted : 16 May 2016 12:29:23(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
I feel time has come now for a new phase for Märklin: Move the center rail down under the track bedding and use inductive transfer.
Why have we been making our cuppa using inductive water boilers for 10 years, and still rely on contact (or lack thereof) through 1,2, or 3 rails? OhMyGod


Good luck with making that work!


For a company trying to innovate and move the field forward, as they did with C-track, mfx, c-sine (whether successfully or not), it may be worthwhile putting those German engineers at work.


And "justifying" another 10% price increase - I'd stick with the devil we know and concentrate on developing integrated products.
Offline RayF  
#61 Posted : 16 May 2016 12:34:07(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
A safer and already mature technology exists in the form of battery power. Marklin already use it for their "My world" trains for children. I would foresee the current toy range being extended with more realistic models powered by internal batteries and controlled by RF. Inductive coupling could then be used for charging the on-board batteries in dedicated sidings.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#62 Posted : 16 May 2016 13:19:40(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm sure it's possible, but its a far cry from boiling a stationary cup of water to transferring power to several moving trains, complete with digital control signals. Do they really want to spend massive amounts of money on R & D for a concept that might be expensive to put into practice anyway? I don't think we are going to see this happen in today's economic climate.

Well, if major innovation was about to happen, then the first to go should be the data transfer via the rails. Move it to WiFi/Radio already!!! :-)

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline RayF  
#63 Posted : 16 May 2016 13:37:29(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm sure it's possible, but its a far cry from boiling a stationary cup of water to transferring power to several moving trains, complete with digital control signals. Do they really want to spend massive amounts of money on R & D for a concept that might be expensive to put into practice anyway? I don't think we are going to see this happen in today's economic climate.

Well, if major innovation was about to happen, then the first to go should be the data transfer via the rails. Move it to WiFi/Radio already!!! :-)



Yes, as I mentioned above Marklin already use wireless technology for their battery operated trains. An improved version of their controllers would do the trick.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline PMPeter  
#64 Posted : 16 May 2016 15:41:00(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I am amazed at the number of people that don't even realise the studs are there.



... until they try to assemble K track! Ouch!!! LOL


You've mentioned this several times in various threads how painful it can be to assemble K track. I'm starting to wonder what you are doing since I have been using K track since 1975 and I have yet to hurt myself. Are they as easy to assemble as C track - no. However, once you realize that the contacts for the pukos need to overlap each other, one from each side, and that there should be no resistance, they click together almost as easily as any 2 rail sectional track. If there is resistance chances are that one of the puko contacts is trying to squeeze in above the isolation piece between the puko contacts and the rail above. If that starts to happen it can be very difficult, possibly painful if you keep pushing, and most likely cause a short when you power up. Knowing this, when you meet resistance you should immediately check the bottom to make sure the contact is not doing this, back out the connection and twist the track slightly to align the contacts, push and click together. There should be no pain involved.

Cheers
Peter
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Offline hxmiesa  
#65 Posted : 16 May 2016 16:01:09(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
You've mentioned this several times in various threads how painful it can be to assemble K track. I'm starting to wonder what you are doing since I have been using K track since 1975 and I have yet to hurt myself. .../... There should be no pain involved.

I assure you that I am equally surprised that you have NOT experienced the famous "K-track pain". lol

New K-track has its sleeves (right word? Track-shoes?) very tightly bent together, and until you have connected and disconnected the track several times, its hard as &$#@...
As most K-track layouts tends to be more permanent (I think), we install more new -virgin- track, than used track, and when trying to fit down an entire station entrance area, huge amounts of pressure and force is necesssary. The geometry of the K-track is really precise, and the track fits very snuggly.
Until I got the hang of it, I destroyed numerous tracks (breaking the outermost tips of the plastic sleepers). (Luckily they serve in covered/invisible areas...)


Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Hackcell  
#66 Posted : 17 May 2016 00:19:22(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
I think there is no need to have a puko on every single track bed, M should install it leaving one empty track bed between each puko. At the end, pickup shoes are long enough to contact at least 3.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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Offline Minok  
#67 Posted : 17 May 2016 00:48:52(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
I feel time has come now for a new phase for Märklin: Move the center rail down under the track bedding and use inductive transfer.
Why have we been making our cuppa using inductive water boilers for 10 years, and still rely on contact (or lack thereof) through 1,2, or 3 rails? OhMyGod


That would increase the cost of the track substantially. Each (or many) of the puko on the track would need to be replaced with an inductive coil transceiver that would be powered strong enough to push the energy and signal up the several mm (5-6?) to the receiving coil in a locomotive. If a simple telex coupler is $15, imagine how much a stretch of track is with 10 coils in it. If we get superconductivity working at room temperature then maybe, some day, but as it stands, it would require a lot more power and cost with current technology to implement.

Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
A safer and already mature technology exists in the form of battery power. Märklin already use it for their "My world" trains for children. I would foresee the current toy range being extended with more realistic models powered by internal batteries and controlled by RF. Inductive coupling could then be used for charging the on-board batteries in dedicated sidings.


This could work. I had slot cars that worked like this in the mid 1970's. They ran on battery and would pull into the 'pits' to recharge the internal battery every few laps. No more endless running then, every train would have to refuel like a steam loco.

Safer isn't 100% - the high density batteries still have dramatic failures on occasion. Imagine your $250 locomotive going up in flames as the LiIon battery runs away, and the whole mess burns a nice hole in your layout.

However, that would be a brand new track technology to get up and running. As the hobby is already struggling in today's world that has youth more interested in other things, I don't see the company getting off of a tried and established system to address a problem a small segment of their user-base has. Having the metal rails, two ready-made electrical conductors already everywhere the locomotive goes, I don't see the hobby moving off of using that as a signal and power delivery system.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Marty  
#68 Posted : 17 May 2016 03:52:04(UTC)
Marty

United States   
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 272
Location: USA
Quote:
Safer isn't 100% - the high density batteries still have dramatic failures on occasion. Imagine your $250 locomotive going up in flames as the LiIon battery runs away, and the whole mess burns a nice hole in your layout.


After searching around on the internet, I have discovered that Lithium Ion battery failures are more common than I thought:

A hoverboard (a popular scooter used on the beach boardwalks and collage campuses) spontaneously erupted in flames in a student's apartment. The battery was blamed. Laptop computers and even cell phone batteries have overheated and caught fire in rare instances.

Edited by user 23 May 2016 04:22:38(UTC)  | Reason: LiIon battery failures are more common than I thought.

Marty
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Offline H0  
#69 Posted : 17 May 2016 08:02:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
I think there is no need to have a puko on every single track bed, M should install it leaving one empty track bed between each puko. At the end, pickup shoes are long enough to contact at least 3.
It would be nice to have C track with concrete sleepers - and pukos sticking out of the ballast.

Already in the '50s people used small nails to make nearly invisible pukos hiding between the ballast.

Pukos should not be made too small as they wear off when used. Fewer pukos will show more wear.

I think pukos amongst the dark ballast will improve the look even with the same density of pukos.


Will Märklin make a new set of C track with concrete sleepers? I don't think so. Just dreaming.


A new incompatible system with invisible centre rail will not work for Märklin IMHO.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline H0  
#70 Posted : 17 May 2016 08:14:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
During almost a 100 years, they have built up a standard and user-base, wich holds 50% of the home marked.
Märklin is the world market leader (that sounds great) with about 12 % market share (so there is potential for growth).
The last good news from Märklin: US sales went up by 50 %.

I think they have a market share of about 50 % in Germany.
Märklin sales were €174M in 2002. And about €96M in 2015/2016.

This year they will have TV ads to boost the Xmas sales. Great plan!
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#71 Posted : 18 May 2016 18:41:15(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
I feel time has come now for a new phase for Märklin: Move the center rail down under the track bedding and use inductive transfer.
Why have we been making our cuppa using inductive water boilers for 10 years, and still rely on contact (or lack thereof) through 1,2, or 3 rails? OhMyGod


Good luck with making that work!


I happened to following links from a US patent application (for an MRR item) and found that it referenced a number of Marklin patents one of which was talking of wireless communication to a train that was powered from the tracks.

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Offline carlos.rivas.16752  
#72 Posted : 19 May 2016 00:30:56(UTC)
carlos.rivas.16752

Spain   
Joined: 08/04/2015(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Vigo, Spain
This debate is leading us to very interesting places. Go on, fellas!

I'm so used to pukos that I don't notice them anymore (M track). I've got several pieces of C track around the house and I think pukos are disguised enough...

Regards
Carlos
My blog both in Spanish and English: https://grunewiesen1965.wordpress.com
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Offline I_love_Marklin_37538  
#73 Posted : 19 May 2016 03:34:05(UTC)
I_love_Marklin_37538


Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 951
Location: ,
My experience with 2-rail has nothing been but negative, the problem with 2-rail is the locomotive gets it power via the rail, once its dirty, grimed out or whatever, there will be contact or power issues and when it came to switches and accessories, the polarity must right, then i decided to move on to Marklin because it is reliable, power was supplied via pick up shoe on the track, i found it much reliable than 2-rail, also Marklin has a 2-rail version or brand, its called Trix also there are some US companies like MTH (Mike's Train House) who are making US prototypes designed to run on Marklin 3-Rail

Also I have found Marklin Digital to be very user friendly
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Offline I_love_Marklin_37538  
#74 Posted : 19 May 2016 03:37:10(UTC)
I_love_Marklin_37538


Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 951
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
I feel time has come now for a new phase for Märklin: Move the center rail down under the track bedding and use inductive transfer.
Why have we been making our cuppa using inductive water boilers for 10 years, and still rely on contact (or lack thereof) through 1,2, or 3 rails? OhMyGod


That would increase the cost of the track substantially. Each (or many) of the puko on the track would need to be replaced with an inductive coil transceiver that would be powered strong enough to push the energy and signal up the several mm (5-6?) to the receiving coil in a locomotive. If a simple telex coupler is $15, imagine how much a stretch of track is with 10 coils in it. If we get superconductivity working at room temperature then maybe, some day, but as it stands, it would require a lot more power and cost with current technology to implement.

Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
A safer and already mature technology exists in the form of battery power. Märklin already use it for their "My world" trains for children. I would foresee the current toy range being extended with more realistic models powered by internal batteries and controlled by RF. Inductive coupling could then be used for charging the on-board batteries in dedicated sidings.


This could work. I had slot cars that worked like this in the mid 1970's. They ran on battery and would pull into the 'pits' to recharge the internal battery every few laps. No more endless running then, every train would have to refuel like a steam loco.

Safer isn't 100% - the high density batteries still have dramatic failures on occasion. Imagine your $250 locomotive going up in flames as the LiIon battery runs away, and the whole mess burns a nice hole in your layout.

However, that would be a brand new track technology to get up and running. As the hobby is already struggling in today's world that has youth more interested in other things, I don't see the company getting off of a tried and established system to address a problem a small segment of their user-base has. Having the metal rails, two ready-made electrical conductors already everywhere the locomotive goes, I don't see the hobby moving off of using that as a signal and power delivery system.

Idea: Marklin should try appealing to the Japanese market
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Offline baggio  
#75 Posted : 19 May 2016 03:42:33(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: I_love_Marklin_37538 Go to Quoted Post
My experience with 2-rail has nothing been but negative


I am sorry you had such bad luck with 2 rail. I found the opposite: I have had more issues with Marklin than with 2 rail gear. Go figure.
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Offline mike c  
#76 Posted : 19 May 2016 07:09:51(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I have no issue with the pukos as I have stated above. They are part and parcel of what makes Maerklin Maerklin. Globally, the 3 rail AC system is known as the Maerklin system.
What I would like to see is more innovation from Maerklin. Why is it that somebody else came up with the Flusterschleifer and licensed it to Roco?
If Maerklin could come up with a quieter slider, it would make a lot of people happier.

While we are on the topic. C Track has pukos (studs) that are reminiscent of the classic M Track design, while the studs on K track are shaped differently. I find that almost all of my locomotives operate quieter on K Track than on the new C Track and some are downright noisy on C Track. I do have to state that other brands are generally much worse.
Why did Maerklin not use the same stud profile as the K Track on the new C Track. I would think that that was one improvement that they should have kept.
M
http://www.jkrs-modellba...pham%20Hatt_4ttl2mqh.jpg

K
http://modellbahntechnik...ahn-Maerklin-K-Gleis.jpg

C
http://www.fotos-hochlad...s/p10902428doskw7c2z.jpg

Oh and regarding battery power, great, now we don't only have to worry about Zinkpest, cheap motors, but also about LI-Ion batteries catching fire when charged and melting or burning components.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#77 Posted : 19 May 2016 07:47:06(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Not saying that they should, but in my book, should Märklin ever want to do away with the pukos, the easiest way would be to just go 2-rail. I can't see this happening (Trix and so on.). I do not see any real value in inventing all sorts of wild technologies just to be different. It makes no sense to me - and people will complain anyway, because their 50 year old BR 01 will not be able to run there.

If Märklin went 2-rail, they would be like everybody else, and they will loose a huge amount of fans. I do not see this happening. As said before, I collect Märklin through Trix and I do not feel that I'm missing out on much. IMHO perhaps it is not Märklin who should do away with the pukos, but the one disliking the pukos that should do away with Märklin. Smile

With regards to wireless and Wi-Fi solutions, why is it that this should be better than the current system? I cannot see what the gain is here.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline RayF  
#78 Posted : 19 May 2016 09:24:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
There are three angles to this debate:

1. Aesthetics - Does 2 rail track look more realistic? 2 rail is definitely the winner here.

2. Reliability and ease of operation - There is little doubt that the 3 rail system offers many advantages for better current collection and ease of track planning.

3. Alternatives - Both points are addressed by using a wireless system with on board batteries. Just imagine never having to clean the track again and not having to worry about track feeds.

Yes, batteries have disadvantages, but come on, we all have about half a dozen battery operated devices in daily service anyway, don't we? Every day I might use a shaver, cordless house phone, mobile cell phone, tablet device, electric toothbrush, cordless vacuum cleaner, cordless drill, cordless electric screwdriver, games console controller... We also use rechargeable batteries in our cars, motor bikes, motor boats; even satellites work off batteries when they are not in sunlight! Exactly how many of these devices catch fire or blow up? With sensible precautions there is very little risk of catastrophe.

I am not, at the moment, looking at changing from my beloved Marklin system, but we have to consider that technological progress may bring us better alternatives.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#79 Posted : 19 May 2016 11:16:43(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
This could work. I had slot cars that worked like this in the mid 1970's. They ran on battery and would pull into the 'pits' to recharge the internal battery every few laps.


This interests me hugely! -Can you give any more deatils? -Maybe a brand-name for reading more about it on the web? TIA!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline hxmiesa  
#80 Posted : 19 May 2016 11:26:19(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
With regards to wireless and Wi-Fi solutions, why is it that this should be better than the current system? I cannot see what the gain is here.

For me its a game-changer; Equip the locos with huge capacitors, and dont worry about bad contact through points and crossings.
Currently, when power goes off, comunication is lost too. Some capacitor-equipped locos already exists, and will continue last received command for some short time. But imagine that full control continues to function, even when passing through dead strips. (Will be funny when you cut power to the layout, and the locos keep on running! lol)
Wifi also has the advantage of ANY batteri-powered object being controlable. Like the carsystems and airport of of MiWuLa. I think lots of good things can come with such a standard!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline hxmiesa  
#81 Posted : 19 May 2016 11:36:47(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Yes, batteries have disadvantages, but come on, we all have about half a dozen battery operated devices in daily service anyway, don't we? Every day I might use a shaver, cordless house phone, mobile cell phone, tablet device, electric toothbrush, cordless vacuum cleaner, cordless drill, cordless electric screwdriver, games console controller... We also use rechargeable batteries in our cars, motor bikes, motor boats; even satellites work off batteries when they are not in sunlight! Exactly how many of these devices catch fire or blow up? With sensible precautions there is very little risk of catastrophe.

Excellent list of electrical items.
If we go back to toys (model trains can be considered as such to a great extent...), then batteries is the RULE rather than the exception.
Planes, ships, cars, helicopters, Lego-trains, table-top games of any kind.
Admittedly not all use rechargeable batteries, but rather normal alkalines. Still many ppl opt to put in rechargables, even if the voltage drops.

Supposedly... new exciting battery-technologies are "just around the corner", like graphene with short charge-time and less heat-danger.

Inductive recharge and wifi comunication. Then you dont even have to connect/touch the device!

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#82 Posted : 19 May 2016 11:47:34(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
For me its a game-changer; Equip the locos with huge capacitors, and dont worry about bad contact through points and crossings.
Currently, when power goes off, comunication is lost too. Some capacitor-equipped locos already exists, and will continue last received command for some short time. But imagine that full control continues to function, even when passing through dead strips. (Will be funny when you cut power to the layout, and the locos keep on running! lol)
Wifi also has the advantage of ANY batteri-powered object being controlable. Like the carsystems and airport of of MiWuLa. I think lots of good things can come with such a standard!

My concern is that things will become much more complicated.

A few things comes into mind:
- How would one perform an emergency stop?
- How would one do feed back as to where the trains are?
- What about the smaller locos, how are they supposed to pack all this gear. If things are going to work, they need to work for everything.
- What happens when the Wi-Fi network becomes overloaded with communication. This is already a problem in areas with a lot of Wi-Fi equipment.

I just do not see it bringing anything new to the table. Just another way of doing stuff that we already can.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline Minok  
#83 Posted : 19 May 2016 20:15:42(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

Yes, batteries have disadvantages, but come on, we all have about half a dozen battery operated devices in daily service anyway, don't we? Every day I might use a shaver, cordless house phone, mobile cell phone, tablet device, electric toothbrush, cordless vacuum cleaner, cordless drill, cordless electric screwdriver, games console controller... We also use rechargeable batteries in our cars, motor bikes, motor boats; even satellites work off batteries when they are not in sunlight! Exactly how many of these devices catch fire or blow up? With sensible precautions there is very little risk of catastrophe.


The problem is battery technology is not yet where it needs to be - we don't have the energy density and lifespan for use on HO train layouts that one wants to run for several hours at a time.

Where-ever we use batteries today, we get very short usage periods with substantial recharging:

  • Electric toothbrush (2-5 minutes of brushing and 12 hrs of recharging)
  • Electric starters on cars and motorbikes. (5-10 seconds of cranking, and 20+ minutes of high power recharging)
  • Electric vacuums and drills. (10-30 minutes of usage, but 30+ minutes to recharge once the juice runs out )


But you get limited lifespan - I've had to throw out drills that work perfectly well (mechanically) because the rechargeable battery pack isn't produced anymore after the 5 years have gone by and they no longer charge or hold a charge. So custom battery packs are a general problem - standard cell sizes are the way to go. But NiCad loose charge holding ability over time.. so you have to put new batteries in every 2 years?

Even if you go with modern batteries, the Lithium-Ion technology, that doesn't degrade capacity but does have a limited number of charge cycles.. .there isn't enough room in the locomotives to put a battery that will give you more than a few minutes, at best, of turning motors to pull a train around a layout. I don't think we would accept running trains for 2-5 minutes and then need to park them for 15-20 minutes of recharging. Longer lasting - the car stuff, lead acid. Works well but is big and heavy.. cannot fit it into the trains, and if we get it small enough, it doesn't have the energy capacity.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Minok  
#84 Posted : 19 May 2016 20:47:29(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
This could work. I had slot cars that worked like this in the mid 1970's. They ran on battery and would pull into the 'pits' to recharge the internal battery every few laps.


This interests me hugely! -Can you give any more deatils? -Maybe a brand-name for reading more about it on the web? TIA!


I might well be remembering things wrong. I got a track in around 1973 when I was a small child, so its what little I remember about it. I'm pretty sure it was battery operated cars (so maybe it was Motorific) but maybe not.. maybe it was Aurora AFX, and not battery operated. It may well have been that there was just a pit-lane part of the oval and I'm thinking that this would recharge the car.
It was before TCR came out, so maybe it was an older Ideal brand solution? I'm at a loss. Childhood memories don't hold up well to a solid investigation of facts I find.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline RayF  
#85 Posted : 19 May 2016 22:42:23(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

Yes, batteries have disadvantages, but come on, we all have about half a dozen battery operated devices in daily service anyway, don't we? Every day I might use a shaver, cordless house phone, mobile cell phone, tablet device, electric toothbrush, cordless vacuum cleaner, cordless drill, cordless electric screwdriver, games console controller... We also use rechargeable batteries in our cars, motor bikes, motor boats; even satellites work off batteries when they are not in sunlight! Exactly how many of these devices catch fire or blow up? With sensible precautions there is very little risk of catastrophe.


The problem is battery technology is not yet where it needs to be - we don't have the energy density and lifespan for use on HO train layouts that one wants to run for several hours at a time.

Where-ever we use batteries today, we get very short usage periods with substantial recharging:

  • Electric toothbrush (2-5 minutes of brushing and 12 hrs of recharging)
  • Electric starters on cars and motorbikes. (5-10 seconds of cranking, and 20+ minutes of high power recharging)
  • Electric vacuums and drills. (10-30 minutes of usage, but 30+ minutes to recharge once the juice runs out )


But you get limited lifespan - I've had to throw out drills that work perfectly well (mechanically) because the rechargeable battery pack isn't produced anymore after the 5 years have gone by and they no longer charge or hold a charge. So custom battery packs are a general problem - standard cell sizes are the way to go. But NiCad loose charge holding ability over time.. so you have to put new batteries in every 2 years?

Even if you go with modern batteries, the Lithium-Ion technology, that doesn't degrade capacity but does have a limited number of charge cycles.. .there isn't enough room in the locomotives to put a battery that will give you more than a few minutes, at best, of turning motors to pull a train around a layout. I don't think we would accept running trains for 2-5 minutes and then need to park them for 15-20 minutes of recharging. Longer lasting - the car stuff, lead acid. Works well but is big and heavy.. cannot fit it into the trains, and if we get it small enough, it doesn't have the energy capacity.


We already have battery operated HO trains in the My World range. Batteries are getting better every year, and motors and electronics more efficient, so I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to have trains that could run for half an hour or more with current technology. On my layout, with four to six trains to run in sequence, that would give me a two to three hour running session, which is more than enough.

What we need is an innovative method of charging that does not entail removing the trains from the layout. Perhaps having the ability to charge the trains from the running rails would provide a solution. You would only need to have good contact in the designated charging area and for a stationary train.

I think you're being a tad pessimistic with your assessment of the usage periods compared to charging times. A couple of examples of better performance:

  • The battery in my electric shaver lasts me for a week at about 10 minutes per day before I need to recharge, and that only takes 15 to 20 minutes.

  • My car has an economy function that stops and starts the engine every time I stop at traffic lights, junctions, pedestrian crossings etc, and the battery still maintains its charge even when running with lights, air-conditioning, music system, satnav etc

  • Electric vehicles now have ranges in the order of hundreds of kilometers before needing to be charged, and that is with heavy motors driving substantial load.


There is a reason that so many devices run on batteries in today's world, and that's because it has become feasible to do so with the advances in battery technology.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#86 Posted : 20 May 2016 09:48:31(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
I agree with RayF on this one. Even though I too have an electric razor, I´d go back again to the "toys"; High-powered radio controlled cars, aeroplanes and helicopters... I have one of those small lightweight IR-controlled helicopters. It flies for around 10 mins on a 20 mins charge, via an USB conector.
The LEGO trains (not seriously model railroading maybe, but a VERY popular train system, selling in numbers Mäerklin could only dream of ;-)
Uses 6 pcs. 1,5v AAA Alkaline batteries, which will normally run continuosly for 8 hours (much longer time if you let it rest once every hour). (Powering a motor and an IR receiver, and sometimes LED lighting)
I use standard NiMH rechargables from the supermarked. They lower the voltage from 9v to 7.2v, but still lasts for around 4 hours. (Admitted; then I have to recharge them for hours...)
Recently, LEGO offers a LiIon integrated pack where you dont have to dismantle everything to recharge. I dont have one (they cost around $70), but the word is that they last around 4-5 hours too, but with much shorter recharge time.

In our H0-world, the train can receive charge every time it stops at a station or shadow-station.

To address some of sjlauritsens thoughts;
Quote:
A few things comes into mind:
- How would one perform an emergency stop?
- How would one do feed back as to where the trains are?
- What about the smaller locos, how are they supposed to pack all this gear. If things are going to work, they need to work for everything.
- What happens when the Wi-Fi network becomes overloaded with communication. This is already a problem in areas with a lot of Wi-Fi equipment.

I think there are many solutions, but I dont pretend to know any of them. Still, "shooting from the hip", one could think of;
-Live bit/ping. Once the ping stops, you are out of range of the control or the control has stopped. So motor stops.
-Where the train goes, it activates a switch. Could be SRK´s, or the standard Märklin system of shortening a contact between the two tracks. (using conductive wheels)
-MiWuLa reference; They pack the stuff into very small vehicles. In H0 I doubt it will be a problem.
-Instead of WiFi it could be RFID, Radio or whatever. If that is a problem, then humanity has a much bigger problems than mere toy-trains ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Bart  
#87 Posted : 22 May 2016 09:26:00(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post

To address some of sjlauritsens thoughts;
Quote:
A few things comes into mind:
- How would one perform an emergency stop?
- How would one do feed back as to where the trains are?
- What about the smaller locos, how are they supposed to pack all this gear. If things are going to work, they need to work for everything.
- What happens when the Wi-Fi network becomes overloaded with communication. This is already a problem in areas with a lot of Wi-Fi equipment.

I think there are many solutions, but I dont pretend to know any of them. Still, "shooting from the hip", one could think of;
-Live bit/ping. Once the ping stops, you are out of range of the control or the control has stopped. So motor stops.
-Where the train goes, it activates a switch. Could be SRK´s, or the standard Märklin system of shortening a contact between the two tracks. (using conductive wheels)
-MiWuLa reference; They pack the stuff into very small vehicles. In H0 I doubt it will be a problem.
-Instead of WiFi it could be RFID, Radio or whatever. If that is a problem, then humanity has a much bigger problems than mere toy-trains ;-)

- a stop button will send a wireless emergency stop order to all decoder addresses (I also like the ping idea).
- leave feedback as it is – power to left track - axles - right track - s88
- what currently fits into Faller H0 passenger cars will fit into our locos
- WiFi may not be the favorite. Wireless DCC has been around for years, both for Faller CS cars and for "Gartenbahn" scale 1/LGB.

Battery charging:
Here, I'm back with the inductive transfer.
Your shadow station and shunting area may be inductive charger areas for all locos. Alternatively, leave those parts of the layout puko-equipped and charge through the conventional 3-rail route.

To keep our old BR 01 running, I would foresee a transition period for decades, just as we all combine our mfx and MM locos right now.
Phase 1: Keeping our 3-rail layout, old locos will operate conventionally, and new ones will benefit from their battery/wireless operation on dirty tracks and turnouts.
Phase 2: Maerklin will create a great aftermarket selling conversion sets
Phase 3: We will keep C-track for shadow stations and other invisible areas and transition to 2-rail track in visible areas
Phase 4: Some may choose to move from puko charging to inductive charging, enabling to remove noisy pickup shoes.
Phase 5: Newbies will start with Trix track and wireless only.

We just need to register a trademark for the new system BigGrin
We now have MM, mfx, mfu, M4 – how about MUn?
The licence will provide Juhan with funds to keep the forum running for ages.
*Bart
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#88 Posted : 22 May 2016 09:31:55(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
Phase 5: Newbies will start with Trix track and wireless only.

Phase 6: Newbies will think: "Why?", sell off their trains and go 2-rail where everything works more simple and has done for ages. This battery thing is just a step back if you ask me - a huge step back.

I do not see the point in where this debate is going. It seems like some of you are desperate to get rid of the center conductor, but simply cannot get yourself to go 2-rail. So you invent all sorts of crazy systems. I am not saying that it is the case, but it sure seems that way.
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Offline RayF  
#89 Posted : 22 May 2016 10:45:20(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
Phase 5: Newbies will start with Trix track and wireless only.

Phase 6: Newbies will think: "Why?", sell off their trains and go 2-rail where everything works more simple and has done for ages. This battery thing is just a step back if you ask me - a huge step back.

I do not see the point in where this debate is going. It seems like some of you are desperate to get rid of the center conductor, but simply cannot get yourself to go 2-rail. So you invent all sorts of crazy systems. I am not saying that it is the case, but it sure seems that way.


It's a debate. All points of view are respected and all ideas are given consideration.

I'm happy with my 3-rail system. I've tried 2-rail and found it less robust and less convenient when planning layouts. Here we are looking at alternatives so we can get rid of the main disadvantage of the 3-rail system, the "pukos"

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Goofy  
#90 Posted : 22 May 2016 17:05:32(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I have used Märklins K tracks,but now i use two rail.
In fact do i see two rail with the Peco or Tillig Elite sure does have better contact than K tracks.
It´s difference between stainless steel and nickel silver.
Märklins K tracks has the most disadvantages what Peco or Tillig Elite do have.
The puko rust and it´s hard to solder stainless steel.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Mark_1602  
#91 Posted : 22 May 2016 17:13:00(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi,

I don't think that many Märklin users object to the the pukos. DC users and MRR magazines do for obvious reasons, but it's just a fact that the three-rail system has helped Märklin to sell more than it would otherwise have done in the last 50 years or so. In the 1960s, 70s, 80s, and 90s, Märklin sold more starter sets than its competitors, and once that choice had been made, people were unlikely to reverse it later.

That may have changed now because brand loyalty has decreased recently, but to this day the three-rail system is an advantage for Märklin. If the company went two-rail and had to compete in the fussy DC market, it would no longer be the market leader as Märklin does not produce what DC users want. Trix H0 isn't very successful, is it?

Most Märklin users are pretty nostalgic or conservative, and an increasing number reject all the innovations of the last 30 years and go back to analogue, 1960s-style layouts. A few years ago, the biggest German forum dedicated to old model trains used to have less than half a million of single visitors per year, in 2014 that number rose to over 600,000, and last year it reached 1,000,000. As Märklin announces ever more complex high-tech products, they risk losing more customers. It's often said that the hobby is dying out, but why are old Märklin trains getting more popular?

In my opinion, Märklin would be digging its grave if it got rid of the Pukos.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline Bart  
#92 Posted : 22 May 2016 17:31:55(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

It's a debate. All points of view are respected and all ideas are given consideration.

I'm happy with my 3-rail system. I've tried 2-rail and found it less robust and less convenient when planning layouts. Here we are looking at alternatives so we can get rid of the main disadvantage of the 3-rail system, the "pukos"


Thanks for the thoughtful comment, Ray!
I have loved my pukos for over 50 years (went from M to K to C track).
The debate is just intended to encourage M* to keep on innovating, as I have always loved M* for.

We did not <need> Telex, but my first loco in 1964 was a 3065.
We did not <need> Delta, as, in 1967, I independently operated my SBB 3050/4016 through the catenary, my BR 01 through the track, and the V60 in an isolated shunting area, using 3 trafos.
We did not <need> s88, as in the late 1960, we built our own contact tract by isolating a single M rail from its bedding, using that greasy brown isolation paper, operating a bank of relays or diode bridges to set a route.
We did not <need> Digital, as in the early 1970s, my analog layout was fully automated using self-built electronic timers, independent speed control, feeding different voltages to track sections, depending on train type, curves, inclination, and red signals ahead; even providing an automatic 24V reversal pulse to the cab control train upon arrival in the terminus station.
We did not <need> mfx, but I love my MS and oval test track to quickly test my new purchases' functions.
We don't <need> to control Faller CS by its "Satnav" system (which is too expensive and will probably never make it), but the concept is brilliant, and M*'s engineers may want to think about wireless feedback and positioning options.

I don't mind the looks of the pukos - in contrast, the pukos will continue to show that I am a proud Märklinist.
I'm just annoyed by the poor contact on dirty tracks and turnouts (I have converted some trains to double pickup shoe) and the limited train (ID) recognition, and I would love to see M* work on the concept that hard wire is not the only way to transmit power or signal today.


*Bart
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Offline Armando  
#93 Posted : 22 May 2016 19:14:08(UTC)
Armando

United States   
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,350
Location: Houston, Texas
Hello,

After spending sometime going through the idle talk and mental masturbation about this pointless topic, only one thing comes to my mind: "Weil das System so klar ist". Thank you, Märklin.
Best regards,
Armando García

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Offline Marty  
#94 Posted : 24 May 2016 01:55:28(UTC)
Marty

United States   
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 272
Location: USA
I sometimes think the pickup shoe can still be further refined. The Roco whisper slider is a step in the right direction, but my idea would be to have a pickup shoe made of very thin, flexible metal and supported by an array of compression springs along its entire length. This would enable the pickup shoe to flex in an arc as it passes over turnouts, and maintaining contact with every single pucko no matter what height the pucko is above the crossties.
Think of how a caterpillar crawls over a twig on the otherwise flat concrete of the sidewalk.

Marty
Offline applor  
#95 Posted : 24 May 2016 03:16:44(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I think the pukos are particularly ugly on turnouts but not enough for me to not use Marklin and there is nothing that can be done regardless.

You either stick with Marklin and accept it, or you move to 2 rail.

If I was starting from scratch, it would have been a harder decision.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline mattj70  
#96 Posted : 24 May 2016 05:45:47(UTC)
mattj70

United States   
Joined: 19/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 460
Location: Hudson FL
Marklin is 3 rail, it is the oldest toy train maker, the older track designs may have been crude? The C-Track has a great appearance just as it comes. If people want 2 rail there is plenty of other brands at a lower cost of entry as well. I don't see myself changing ever. Marklin to me is the only way to go!
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Offline river6109  
#97 Posted : 24 May 2016 08:29:39(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
you could use Trix tracks, this is if you only use electric locos and use the overhead system as your 3rd rail

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline foumaro  
#98 Posted : 24 May 2016 09:23:41(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
This is a topic that i cannot understand the meaning of the discussion.Can anybody help?Blink
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Offline RayF  
#99 Posted : 24 May 2016 09:44:11(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
This is a topic that i cannot understand the meaning of the discussion.Can anybody help?Blink


Hi Panayotis,

This is just a discussion on the advantages or disadvantages of using Marklin 3 rail track with the stud contacts. Some people have proposed alternative systems, such as wireless control or inductive power transfer. Others think Marklin should go over to 2 rail.

Do you think Marklin should stop making 3 rail trains and move to another system?

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline foumaro  
#100 Posted : 24 May 2016 10:05:57(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
This is a topic that i cannot understand the meaning of the discussion.Can anybody help?Blink


Hi Panayotis,

This is just a discussion on the advantages or disadvantages of using Marklin 3 rail track with the stud contacts. Some people have proposed alternative systems, such as wireless control or inductive power transfer. Others think Marklin should go over to 2 rail.

Do you think Marklin should stop making 3 rail trains and move to another system?



Thank you very much Ray.I love marklin 3rail system and i want to stay the way it is.It is perfect and reliable.ThumpUp Love
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