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morsing		#1 Posted : 08 April 2016 20:44:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 586 Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire		Hi, I've never managed to find an over-view of route and control capabilities. I assume it can manage to at least try to prevent collisions, even in mixed manual / auto mode? Also, I was wondering if it can cope with a double line branching, i.e. one track would have to cross over the other for the double line to split off. Can it prevent collisions under those circumstances? Can it control speed, such as slowing for a curve or a station, even pass-through? Thanks in advance
		----- Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements! Marklin C-track + CS3+ 12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
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H0		#2 Posted : 09 April 2016 08:22:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,263 Location: DE-NW		Hi! Central Station was in the catalogue from 2004 through 2008. They stopped developing the software while it was incomplete and impotent. Do not expect miracles from the CS. Central Station 2 is more advanced, but it has no knowledge where which train is. When a circuit track or contact track triggers, it will not know which loco did it. You can work around this limitation if you only have a single loco on each circuit. It's different with PC control. The PC software will know the layout, the trains and their positions. It can slow trains down in curves, stop passenger trains in stations and let freight trains pass through. AFAIK a "reloaded" Central Station can do some of those tricks by means of RailCom, requiring locos with RailCom decoders.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Bigdaddynz		#3 Posted : 09 April 2016 08:36:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: H0 Central Station was in the catalogue from 2004 through 2008. Originally Posted by: H0 Central Station 2 is more advanced... Actually, the Central Station is still in the catalog..... Marklin refer to what we call the CS2 / Central Station 2 as the Central Station, so I'm assuming this is what Morsing is referring to. The updated CS2 manual and the Digital newsletter I linked to in the following post talk about route control quite a bit. It all comes down to how you structure your sensors and program the route control. As Tom points out PC software may well do a better job for what you want, but again the more sensors you have the better the software can perform. https://www.marklin-user...ol-28-Jan---Mar-Apr-2016
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morsing		#4 Posted : 09 April 2016 09:10:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 586 Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire		Hi, Yes, I meant the latest and greatest, i.e. CS2/3. Any ideas about my double line branching? Thanks
		----- Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements! Marklin C-track + CS3+ 12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
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H0		#5 Posted : 09 April 2016 09:14:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,263 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Actually, the Central Station is still in the catalog..... Right. Sometimes they use the term "CS2", sometimes they call it "Central Station". So we have Central Station 60212, Central Station 60213, Central Station 60214, and Central Station 60215 - and they are all unaware which train is where. And when a circuit track or contact track triggers they do not know which train it was. They cannot tell a passenger train from a freight train and route them different ways. They cannot easily slow trains down before curves. They can't prevent collisions as they wouldn't know which train to stop. Coming soon we have "Central Station 3". I don't think it will be better with respect to automatic train running.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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morsing		#6 Posted : 09 April 2016 09:53:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 586 Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire		This all sounds very disappointed, I had really expected more form a 500gbp piece of kit? I will have to play around with something like rocrail I suppose.
		----- Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements! Marklin C-track + CS3+ 12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
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xxup		#7 Posted : 09 April 2016 12:12:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,463 Location: Australia		You still need an eCOS or Central station with Rocrail.
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H0		#8 Posted : 09 April 2016 16:00:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,263 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: xxup You still need an eCOS or Central station with Rocrail. Or Tams MC or Intellibox. Or any other controller supported by Rocrail.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Danlake		#9 Posted : 09 April 2016 21:20:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,571		Originally Posted by: morsing This all sounds very disappointed, I had really expected more form a 500gbp piece of kit? I will have to play around with something like rocrail I suppose. Hi Morsing, If you want to go full automation I would suggest to go PC software control. Any old laptop or PC could be used with a control station and there is free software for basic automation on the market. CS2 also relies on the old fashion concept of switching on/off power to track section or brake section. This requires lots of wiring and decoders and makes it even more expensive. Brgds Lasse
		Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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kiwiAlan		#10 Posted : 09 April 2016 23:41:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,102 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		It doesn't have to be expensive programs on a grunter of a PC. I'm told that JMRI will run with a cs2. I know that a fair amount of development has been done to get it to connect to an ECoS. It will do all that somehting like Railroad & Co will do, and more in some areas I believe. Best of all it is free (as in beer) and can run at acceptable speeds on relatively limited hardware despite it using Java. People have it running on a Raspberry Pi model 2, the original Pi is just too slow. However an old PC running WinXP will do fine for all but the most critical of things.
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Minok		#11 Posted : 14 April 2016 00:39:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		So what is the minimum hardware one needs to interface a PC with computer control software to the track? Does one need a Central Station or is there a cheaper interface box that will do the trick of letting you plug a PC (via ethernet cable or USB cable) into the 'box' that connects to the track box to read/write the digital signals to the track, and read the sensor (S88) feedback? I see a central station as an interesting interface to allow controlling of 2 trains manually, or using the MFX+ interface to do some of that related resource/maintenance work, when one has guest operators, but I'm assuming a full CS isn't necessary for wanting to control most of the layout by computer, with just a Mobil Station 2 controller to be able to manually take over a specific train (and have the PC software then react and plan around what you do with your manually controlled train).
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Bigdaddynz		#12 Posted : 14 April 2016 01:29:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		You can use a CS2 or Ecos, Intellibox (1 & 2), and CS1 for this purpose. You can also use a Marklin 6021 with 6051 interface. Keep in mind that the Intelliboxes and 6021/6051 do not support mfx. One of our Japanese members also posted a thread regarding his development of Desktop Station which uses an Arduino computer to provide automation.
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Bigdaddynz		#13 Posted : 14 April 2016 01:31:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Desktop Station thread is at: https://www.marklin-user...ommand-station--Railuino
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nitramretep		#14 Posted : 14 April 2016 02:13:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 207 Location: lower hudson valley, ny		The CS is a great unit. The best thing is to sit and tinker with it, there are numerous features that can found and, when first observed, the complexity becomes less so and more of a powerful tool for running trains and controlling a myriad of devices. I have had mine for about 4 months and still find it a source of new features and incredible reliability (save occasional bug or reset it may require). I think it is one of the better control units on the market and pretty much a must have for anyone operating a larger layout. I was using the Mobile Station for almost a year before I got the CS and the difference is incredible.
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Minok		#15 Posted : 14 April 2016 02:52:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz You can use a CS2 or Ecos, Intellibox (1 & 2), and CS1 for this purpose. You can also use a Marklin 6021 with 6051 interface. Keep in mind that the Intelliboxes and 6021/6051 do not support mfx. One of our Japanese members also posted a thread regarding his development of Desktop Station which uses an Arduino computer to provide automation. So that does suggest that to computer automate an MFX based digital layout one needs a Central Station to act as the computer interface point, right? Not an issue as by the time the layout is built in a year or two, the CS3/3+ may be the thing I'm looking at, and it will have some time on market to work out the bugs.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Bigdaddynz		#16 Posted : 14 April 2016 03:14:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: Minok So that does suggest that to computer automate an MFX based digital layout one needs a Central Station to act as the computer interface point, right? Aside from licensing issues for mfx, I think the hardware needs to support mfx as well as the software, so that limits you to ESU Ecos/CS1R with M4 and the Marklin CS1/CS2 controllers.
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Minok		#17 Posted : 14 April 2016 05:48:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Originally Posted by: Minok So that does suggest that to computer automate an MFX based digital layout one needs a Central Station to act as the computer interface point, right? Aside from licensing issues for mfx, I think the hardware needs to support mfx as well as the software, so that limits you to ESU Ecos/CS1R with M4 and the Marklin CS1/CS2 controllers. Other than a home built kit/project for the enterprising hobbyist I suppose.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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clapcott		#18 Posted : 14 April 2016 06:14:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		What is a .... Originally Posted by: Minok ... MFX based digital layout ... ?
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H0		#19 Posted : 14 April 2016 08:10:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,263 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Minok So that does suggest that to computer automate an MFX based digital layout one needs a Central Station to act as the computer interface point, right? Tams MC and Viessmann Commander can also control mfx locos, just without automatic registration. This makes the Tams MC a cheap alternative for advanced users. The Viessmann Commander was made to allow sophisticated automation without a PC.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Bigdaddynz		#20 Posted : 14 April 2016 12:43:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: H0 Tams MC and Viessmann Commander can also control mfx locos, just without automatic registration. Yes they can, but they can't do that by using the mfx protocol, they have to use Marklin Motorola (or maybe DCC if the loco supports it) to do that.
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H0		#21 Posted : 14 April 2016 13:07:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,263 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Originally Posted by: H0 Tams MC and Viessmann Commander can also control mfx locos, just without automatic registration. Yes they can, but they can't do that by using the mfx protocol, they have to use Marklin Motorola (or maybe DCC if the loco supports it) to do that. Nope. You get 16 functions with 1 address, up to 16000 addresses, and up to 126 speed steps, so it definitely is not MM protocol. Uhlenbrock announced the mfu module that will bring automatic mfx registration for the Intellibox II. So that will be one step further than Tams and Viessmann.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Bigdaddynz		#22 Posted : 14 April 2016 13:27:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: H0 You get 16 functions with 1 address, up to 16000 addresses, and up to 126 speed steps, so it definitely is not MM protocol. Sounds like DCC then, unless they've gone off and done a bodgy job using part of the mfx protocol without the auto registration bit, which seems rather pointless to me and begs the question on how they register the mfx address without auto registration, given that the mfx address of a loco isn't printed anywhere. Originally Posted by: H0 Uhlenbrock announced the mfu module that will bring automatic mfx registration for the Intellibox II. So that will be one step further than Tams and Viessmann. Yes I guess it will do, but probably in about 3 years time when they finally release it to market.
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H0		#23 Posted : 14 April 2016 14:28:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,263 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Sounds like DCC then, unless they've gone off and done a bodgy job using part of the mfx protocol without the auto registration bit, which seems rather pointless to me and begs the question on how they register the mfx address without auto registration, given that the mfx address of a loco isn't printed anywhere. The mfx address is printed nowhere because the controller assigns it. The CS2 shows the mfx address it assigned to a loco - a new feature since version 3.5 or 3.6 and it led to some confusion. Most controller assign the next consecutive number - Tams MC lets the user decide which address will be used. It's not pointless since most mfx decoders installed by Märklin do not support DCC.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Minok		#24 Posted : 14 April 2016 18:20:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: clapcott What is a .... Originally Posted by: Minok ... MFX based digital layout ... ? I'm guessing I need to research what exactly mfx gets you that you really need. By mfx digital layout I mean a Märklin 3 rail digital layout with all mfx locomotives. The only certainty I have is I want to be able to use all of the functions of the locos: light settings, sounds, decouplers etc. basically all of their functions and the accel and the braking delays and drive characteristics I get when using the Mobile Station 2. If I have to manually program addresses and just use that with PC automatic control, it's no problem.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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morsing		#25 Posted : 14 April 2016 21:10:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 586 Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire		So, to sum up, there's little point in buying a CS2/3, I'm much better off buying a CS1 and spending the savings on TrainController Silver?
		----- Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements! Marklin C-track + CS3+ 12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
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H0		#26 Posted : 14 April 2016 21:37:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,263 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: morsing So, to sum up, there's little point in buying a CS2/3, I'm much better off buying a CS1 and spending the savings on TrainController Silver? I'm very satisfied with my CS1 since I installed version 3.0. With version 2.0 it was impotent and I cannot recommend getting a CS1 with version 2.0 or earlier.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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kiwiAlan		#27 Posted : 16 April 2016 13:00:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,102 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Originally Posted by: H0 You get 16 functions with 1 address, up to 16000 addresses, and up to 126 speed steps, so it definitely is not MM protocol. Sounds like DCC then, unless they've gone off and done a bodgy job using part of the mfx protocol without the auto registration bit, which seems rather pointless to me and begs the question on how they register the mfx address without auto registration, given that the mfx address of a loco isn't printed anywhere. Originally Posted by: H0 Uhlenbrock announced the mfu module that will bring automatic mfx registration for the Intellibox II. So that will be one step further than Tams and Viessmann. Yes I guess it will do, but probably in about 3 years time when they finally release it to market. Tams will send mfx, they just do not advertise it, and it isn't enabled by default. You need to enter a magic code at some point, and the next time you turn it on it comes up in mfx mode. I don't know if it will auto identify a loco, but what you can do is assign the mfx address instead of it being automatically assigned. Oh, the magic code is the TAMS factory post code, so I'm told by a reliable source, and I think you enter it as a loco address, then power cycle the unit.
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