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Offline pschloes  
#1 Posted : 17 March 2016 00:11:15(UTC)
pschloes

United States   
Joined: 01/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 14
First attempt at creating a shadow (fiddle) yard using C track, CS2, and S88. My question is how long should the contact track be? Should it be the entire length of the branch so the CS2 will always know when the branch is occupied (regardless of train length) and therefore prevent rear-ending by another train? Or can it simply be longer than the longest distance between wheels of the car (and if so, how will the CS2 always know when the track is occupied)? I plan on creating my own C track isolated rail as the sensor & therefore I think I can make the section as long as I need.
Thanks
Offline Danlake  
#2 Posted : 17 March 2016 06:54:00(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,546
Hi there,

Correct you can easy make your own contact tracks by isolating the outer rail using e.g. a small track piece, a long piece or by combining pieces together.

For automation with CS2 only (I.e. Not using PC software), I would make an entry and exit contact track. The CS2 is event based logic, meaning it will just carry out any action (as you program it) when a contact is on or off. The CS2 doesn't actually know what train is on which track in your shadow yard. So you need to make strong programming ensuring that no train can enter a track where there is already a train.

See also https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?a=16685&b=1

Brgds Lasse

Ps: also lots of stuff in recent Marklin digital newsletters about automation. I can send you PDFs files if you drop me an email.
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Danlake
Offline pschloes  
#3 Posted : 17 March 2016 15:50:43(UTC)
pschloes

United States   
Joined: 01/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 14
Thanks Lasse, that's very helpful.
One more question regarding the first (entry) contact track: I assume this entry contact will trigger a change for the corresponding turnout to prevent another train from entering, but how does one keep the turnout from switching too soon (i.e. when the locomotive passes over it) and causing derailment of the train?
Pete
Offline Danlake  
#4 Posted : 17 March 2016 19:53:54(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,546
Hi Pete,

Entry contact would normally start the other train waiting in the shadow yard and switch off power to the train just entering the yard.

Once the departing train has completely left the exit contact it would then set the turnouts for the entry to the shadow yard (at this stage the train should have cleared the turnout) so the next train arriving will enter a free siding and so forth.

CS2 automation is following pretty basic logic:

When a contact sensor is on or off it will initiate a command. A command could be to switch a turnout, switch off power to a section by a K84, initiate a loco function, initiate a route, set a new speed for a loco etc.

I send you some PDFs files - have a look through and feel free to ask.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Danlake
Offline Wasp  
#5 Posted : 18 May 2018 10:40:26(UTC)
Wasp

United Kingdom   
Joined: 05/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Chorley
Many thanks all for info excellent
Regards
Chris
Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 18 May 2018 13:01:21(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,717

See http://cabin-layout.blogspot.com/2006/11/computer-control.html

I wholly disagree that an arriving train should release another one. That is how things were done in the analog days as there was little else one could do.

Now hidden sidings are to store trains. What happens next is open ended. Plus there is absolutely no reason a train in another track has to wait for the second train to arrive. It can go when it has open track.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Danlake  
#7 Posted : 19 May 2018 21:47:41(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,546
Hi Dale,

Agree with you but above post is about CS2 automation which is pretty basic compared to computer control.

Recent software updates has made CS2/CS3 more sophisticated in terms of automation logic, but the fundamental design limitations remains; CS cannot keep track of what locomotive has triggered a contact.

So unless you put in delays or additional contacts the Marklin design concept for shadowyard automation (I believe and what I read from Marklin Magazine and digital club newsletter) is that an incoming loco will start the next one.

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#8 Posted : 19 May 2018 21:55:40(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,717
ah yes the CS2, thanks, correct, rather severe limitations it has.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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