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Offline Harvey  
#1 Posted : 03 March 2016 02:49:15(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
I know I should have taken pictures of the wiring before I un-assembled my layout. Now that I am re-assembling, I forget some details.

I am using a booster to run all switching tracks, signals and blocks.

For K83, I would use the booster to feed power to the decoder (as shown on page 51 of the Control, Switching , Running manual. This applies to switching tracks and signals. With signals, the red wire from the signal would feed power to the track and the other red wire would connect to the CS.
For blocks, the manual does not show a similar diagram. My thought is that I would power the K84 from the booster (the brown and red plugs) but I would use the CS (I am using the central station for track power) to feed power to one of the 4 green plugs and then run a wire from the center plug to the track.
When I want to power the block, the CS would send a signal via the booster to switch on power. The CS would provide power to the track.

Is this correct.

Regards
Harvey
Offline Harvey  
#2 Posted : 07 March 2016 02:49:48(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Hi all

Am I correct in how to connect the K84 to the booster?

Regards
Harvey
Offline xxup  
#3 Posted : 07 March 2016 04:29:30(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Have a look at page 78 in the same book. It shows how to switch track current using a K84..
Adrian
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Offline Harvey  
#4 Posted : 07 March 2016 23:39:56(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Adrian

Thanks for the reference. Pg78 shows set up when CS powers both the track and the k84. I believe, when using a booster, the booster would be connected to the K84 input (red and brown connections) and the CS would feed connections #1-#4 on the K84 (feeding power to the track) as shown on pg 78.

Sound correct?

Regards
Harvey
Offline xxup  
#5 Posted : 08 March 2016 00:05:32(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Yep and no .. Just think of the booster as another CS without the knobs.. There should be no direct link from the CS to the K84. There is a link between the CS and the booster, which transfers the digital signal needed to control the K84 through the booster.
Adrian
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Offline Harvey  
#6 Posted : 08 March 2016 03:03:04(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Adrian

I believe you are saying what I am trying to say. The CS2 provides current to the track so the red wire from the CS2 would connect to feed 1 (as an example) of the K84. So, when the booster receives the signal from the CS2 to turn feed 1 on, the track current comes from the CS2, through K84 feed 1 and then onto the track. However, the booster powers the K84 (the connections with no numbers). This seems like the logical approach if one is using the CS2 to provide track current but the booster to control signals, turnouts and blocks.

Regards
Harvey

Offline xxup  
#7 Posted : 08 March 2016 03:17:30(UTC)
xxup

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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
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Location: Australia
Ah yes.. I see now.. Not the usual way to manage track power with a booster, but it should work okay..
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Offline Harvey  
#8 Posted : 08 March 2016 21:22:24(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Adrian

I found on line a diagram which shows the connection of the CS2, Booster and K84. The picture explains what I was trying (but not well) to describe.

Link https://www.google.com/s...#imgrc=VYYZCv52x650VM%3A

Regards

Harvey

Offline xxup  
#9 Posted : 08 March 2016 21:43:04(UTC)
xxup

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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Yes.. It works for me..

Here's the diagram for clarity. It was originally posted by Clapcott about six years ago.

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At the end of the day, if the CS circuit has plenty of capacity and expanding the number of locos on the layout is unlikely, then your approach will work without any problems. But if you plan to expand the layout or increase the number of locos (or other power consuming rolling stock) then perhaps you might consider creating a booster zone (a shadow station area for example) that includes the sections of track that can have the power switched by the K84.
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Offline Minok  
#10 Posted : 09 March 2016 22:58:10(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
In its essence, the booster, if I understand correctly, provides power and signal encoding on the power, that mimics what the CS is producing, so the red/brown lines coming out of the booster have the power to drive engines/solenoids/lights/etc AND the control signals modulated on them. The booster signal just needs to be electrically isolated from the MS signal (on the principle that a section of track only can have ONE electrical power and control signal source connected to it.

The differences here is in the usage of those separated but identically control-signal modulated supplies. Harvey is using them booster power/signals to energize the post-signal track sections via the signals/controller, vs the more traditional approach of powering separated track sections to reduce the load on any one power/control signal provider.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Minok  
#11 Posted : 09 March 2016 23:01:54(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post


For K83, I would use the booster to feed power to the decoder (as shown on page 51 of the Control, Switching , Running manual.


What is this Control, Switching , Running manual? Is that part of the CS documentation? Is it a separate book? I'm still building up toward digital control and a layout and am interested in what documentation there is and where to find it so I can get up to speed on the technology before I get to the point of doing the building/integration.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 10 March 2016 00:08:02(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post


For K83, I would use the booster to feed power to the decoder (as shown on page 51 of the Control, Switching , Running manual.


What is this Control, Switching , Running manual? Is that part of the CS documentation? Is it a separate book? I'm still building up toward digital control and a layout and am interested in what documentation there is and where to find it so I can get up to speed on the technology before I get to the point of doing the building/integration.


Until there is an english translation of the recently published 03081 book by Marklin, scour eBay and other auction sites for a copy of the 0308 book and/or the 0303 booklet. The 0308 book(looks like Marklin still have German ones) is highly sought as there was only ever one print run in English and so can command seemingly exorbitant prices, but the 0303 book is a little more widely available.

There is also a special edition Marklin Magazine issue called 'Digital Practice' or something similar. The front cover is an HO V200 with some G1 figures manhandling a decoder into it. There is also an English edition of this available.
Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 10 March 2016 00:39:44(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post


For K83, I would use the booster to feed power to the decoder (as shown on page 51 of the Control, Switching , Running manual.


What is this Control, Switching , Running manual? Is that part of the CS documentation? Is it a separate book? I'm still building up toward digital control and a layout and am interested in what documentation there is and where to find it so I can get up to speed on the technology before I get to the point of doing the building/integration.


Until there is an english translation of the recently published 03081 book by Marklin, scour eBay and other auction sites for a copy of the 0308 book and/or the 0303 booklet. The 0308 book(looks like Marklin still have German ones) is highly sought as there was only ever one print run in English and so can command seemingly exorbitant prices, but the 0303 book is a little more widely available.

There is also a special edition Marklin Magazine issue called 'Digital Practice' or something similar. The front cover is an HO V200 with some G1 figures manhandling a decoder into it. There is also an English edition of this available.


Thanks. Maybe I'll get to producing an unauthorized English translation if I find the new German one and Märklin doesn't get their act together. Given how Märklin's English translations are a bit odd at times that may not be a bad thing.

Looks like 48212 / 03081 may be the most modern version of the treatment, but its not in directly available in German at the moment either... maybe they are working on a new edition that updates to the newest parts and CS3.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Minok
Offline Harvey  
#14 Posted : 10 March 2016 21:17:45(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
In its essence, the booster, if I understand correctly, provides power and signal encoding on the power, that mimics what the CS is producing, so the red/brown lines coming out of the booster have the power to drive engines/solenoids/lights/etc AND the control signals modulated on them. The booster signal just needs to be electrically isolated from the MS signal (on the principle that a section of track only can have ONE electrical power and control signal source connected to it.

The differences here is in the usage of those separated but identically control-signal modulated supplies. Harvey is using them booster power/signals to energize the post-signal track sections via the signals/controller, vs the more traditional approach of powering separated track sections to reduce the load on any one power/control signal provider.


Minok

I am following the diagram posted by Adrian. Not being the electrical engineer, I may misunderstand the diagram. My intent is to use the booster to activate the K84 (to send the current that activates opening or closing one of the 4 switches). However, the track current will be provided by the CS. My reasoning is as follows
1. I use a loop wire to send current around the layout, to the tracks and the CS powers the track.
2. I use the booster to power any items that draw extra current or surges in current. That would be K83, K84, signals, turnouts.

If I am interpreting the diagram correctly, I am using the booster to activate the K84 to turn track power on the post-signal track or block. The track power comes from the CS.

Am I misunderstanding the diagram?

Regards
Harvey
Offline Minok  
#15 Posted : 10 March 2016 22:15:28(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post

Minok

I am following the diagram posted by Adrian. Not being the electrical engineer, I may misunderstand the diagram. My intent is to use the booster to activate the K84 (to send the current that activates opening or closing one of the 4 switches). However, the track current will be provided by the CS. My reasoning is as follows
1. I use a loop wire to send current around the layout, to the tracks and the CS powers the track.
2. I use the booster to power any items that draw extra current or surges in current. That would be K83, K84, signals, turnouts.

If I am interpreting the diagram correctly, I am using the booster to activate the K84 to turn track power on the post-signal track or block. The track power comes from the CS.

Am I misunderstanding the diagram?

Regards
Harvey


Now I'm really going out on a limb as I don't have a K84, nor know how it internally switches things, but I'll make some assumptions:
1) The booster in the diagram powers the K84 via the red/brown inputs on the K84 - so that decoder and its internal logic draws its power from the booster.
2) The K84 just switches the input to one of two outputs (from the central to either the green or red side ) and the K84 doesn't itself provide any signal contribution to what gets passed through its switches.

In that case, per the diagram, taking the top left switch that is tied to the signal LEDs as an example, the K84...
takes the red input wire (+ power&control from the CS/track power) and feeds it either

a) to the purple output to the signal (red light, which drops to ground, resulting in none of that red power&control getting to the brown?(hard to tell the color) wire that feeds the isolated track central rail.

or

b) to the brown? output on that switch that results in the power&signal going through the green LED as well as to the isolated track (so locomotives/cars there are then powered via the Central Station



  • So I'd say the CS is powering the isolated track section when the decoder is switched to do so AND the CS is powering the signal light green/red
  • The booster is only powering the decoder K84's internal electronics.


For the other switches, the CS is only powering the isolated track sections as there are no signal lights there.

The way the signals are wired up in the diagram, they get power from the same source as the isolated track section.

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Toys of tin and wood rule!
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https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline xxup  
#16 Posted : 10 March 2016 22:28:29(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Correct..
Adrian
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