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Offline Minok  
#1 Posted : 29 February 2016 07:01:26(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Purchased a 37600 new V60 loco and tested out the telex couplers. This is my first go at telex equipped locomotives so I went in naively expecting things to work. After some reading I understand that the telex couplers don't work well with reflex couplers and that certainly would explain why the older 4441 tank car might be slipping off of the reflex coupler. But short couplers from Märklin are supposed to work. So why is the KK coupler on the new 47705 DHL container car refusing to engage one of the couplers at all?

telex and short coupler failing to engage

So from the experts in telex couplers, what should I be looking for in diagnosing this issue with a new locomotive? Send it back? I'd rather dis the issue.
This isn't the case of the coupler coming off after some time such as the issue with telex that have too much wiggle room inside the housing- this is the couplers not even engaging.

I suppose a coupler gauge is something I should acquire just to rule out the obvious candidates.

Edited by user 08 March 2016 22:00:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 29 February 2016 07:42:05(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,716
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Minok, a slower and more patiently approach is needed by finding out why the coupling is not engaging.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Ross  
#3 Posted : 29 February 2016 08:03:30(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 872
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Thomas,

Just watched your video and the problem is the pin in the Telex coupler is up. Just push it down and the wagon will couple with the loco.
If the pin remains up after using the uncoupler you may have a bad telex coupler.
Try using the telex at the other end of the loco and see it you get the same results.

A good test is to invert the loco and watch that the pins both drop down. Now turn the loco back to its normal running position, the pins should drop down so the telex coupler engages the lock mechanism so you can couple wagons. if the pins remained raised you have a bad telex coupler(s) and should ask for a new telex coupler as they are easy to replace.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Ross
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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 29 February 2016 09:09:54(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I'm not a great fan of the newer type of Telex coupler. Their only advantage as far as I can see is that they fit on a NEM coupler pocket, but otherwise the earlier types of Telex work much more reliably and across different coupler types.

I have a couple of locos where the Telex only works well on one end. I'm not going to go out of my way to try and get it working, as I prefer to use uncoupling ramps anyway,
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Torstein  
#5 Posted : 29 February 2016 17:10:37(UTC)
Torstein

Norway   
Joined: 27/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 338
Location: Norway
Hi

I have several locomotives with the new telex couplers. If the coupling is new or little used, you can get problem with the pin who will not drop down and lock the coupling as mention above.

I use an Air Duster (air pressure on bottle) and blow the coupling clean for dust and "dirt". The space around the pin are so little, only small micro part will prevent it to drop down.

After some locking problems and plowings it get better and better.

I keep them away from "dirty" places, so I don't need to do the process over again.

Well, it is how I do it.

It look like this coupling need some wear to work properly.

So I use them often to keep them in good condition, as my other MRR stuff. BigGrin

Torstein
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Offline BrandonVA  
#6 Posted : 29 February 2016 20:19:05(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
I find sometimes these stick as well. Sometimes if you hold the locomotive upside down and gently shake it this will cause them to unstick. You guy will hate this, but the other thing I find works is to give the coupler a light flick with your finger, not too much, just to jar it a bit and loosen it up.

-Brandon
Offline Minok  
#7 Posted : 29 February 2016 21:34:02(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hi Thomas,

Just watched your video and the problem is the pin in the Telex coupler is up. Just push it down and the wagon will couple with the loco.
If the pin remains up after using the uncoupler you may have a bad telex coupler.
Try using the telex at the other end of the loco and see it you get the same results.

A good test is to invert the loco and watch that the pins both drop down. Now turn the loco back to its normal running position, the pins should drop down so the telex coupler engages the lock mechanism so you can couple wagons. if the pins remained raised you have a bad telex coupler(s) and should ask for a new telex coupler as they are easy to replace.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post


Good point.. so indeed I may be cursed with bad telex couplers right out of the box. As the loco is new, I'll test and if its misbehaving in that way, call on Marklin to make it right by replacing the telex coupler(s). Sad that its an issue still. We know how to fix this issue, if its the same problem with the replacement part telex units - packing the coil to keep it centered and unmoving. I'd hoped a new out of the box Lok would at least work.

Time to get the magnifier out and have a closer look. I appreciate the feedback.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
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Offline Minok  
#8 Posted : 29 February 2016 21:38:19(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Torstein Go to Quoted Post
Hi

I have several locomotives with the new telex couplers. If the coupling is new or little used, you can get problem with the pin who will not drop down and lock the coupling as mention above.

I use an Air Duster (air pressure on bottle) and blow the coupling clean for dust and "dirt". The space around the pin are so little, only small micro part will prevent it to drop down.

After some locking problems and plowings it get better and better.

I keep them away from "dirty" places, so I don't need to do the process over again.

Well, it is how I do it.

It look like this coupling need some wear to work properly.

So I use them often to keep them in good condition, as my other MRR stuff. BigGrin

Torstein


I'll try that too. I'd expect that the coupler pins were clean, as the Lok was in the factory box for almost its entire existence, I assume (which assumes the retailer didn't have it out on a display for any time, and indeed had it in the plastic shell, in the box as I got it).

Those boxes, have their own problem as I seem to have a knack for damaging couplers as they don't aligns straight all the time, and folding up the end-cap sometimes impacts the coupler ends.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
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My YouTube Channel:
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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#9 Posted : 29 February 2016 22:10:08(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Hello Everybody.

Suppose that you have a locomotive with a Telex coupler that creates various (unsolvable) problems. My question is .... if it possible to change the Telex and simply replace it with a simple Marklin close coupler. Are there any electrical problems, should you choose this "solution"?.

Cheers

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
Offline Minok  
#10 Posted : 01 March 2016 07:23:17(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
So I am learning new things in leaps and bounds. It also shows that reading up alone doesn't always help. So it appears that my new loco has a new (3rd) type of telex couplers. Upon closer observation I saw that the telex couplers didn't behave like the well documented "pin moving up and down" types at all.

This telex coupler has a front pin that when the coupler is "locked" stays vertical and thus captures and holds the wagon coupler. However when in "disengage / decouple" state, that pin will pivot out from the loco plowing the wagon coupler to pull outward and out over the pin. From the sounds of the coupler system it may be the electromagnet holds the pin fixed and when turned off the pin freely pivots loosely.

The same mechanism on electrically release door striker plates to remotely unlock doors except I suspect here the power application holds it locked.

So here is another video but with the telex first unlocked and then locking it.

YouTube Video: telex style 3

So the earlier video showing the coupling just not happening was the result of the telex coupler being in the disengaged setting. I managed to interpret why the Mobile Station 2 symbols mean and ensure I was using the button for the correct end of the loco.

So in my case no need to repair the couplers but just learning how they work - which really was non obvious and maybe complicated be the fact I had read a lot about the way the older style telex worked (which I assumed was still how things worked).

It is still true that all of the cars that come with Relex couplers will need to see them replaced with short couplers (kurzkupplung). As the Relex couplers if they did lock down would not reliably hold.

YouTube Video: new telex with Märklin Relex

YouTube Video: new telex with roco Relex-like

Edited by user 02 March 2016 05:45:17(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed typos and terminology (stupid phone autocorrect & my mistakes)

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
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My YouTube Channel:
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Offline sjbartels  
#11 Posted : 01 March 2016 07:36:44(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
Might be overkill, but I went ahead and replaced every relex coupler on my tank and beer cars with the newer NEM coupler, haven't had any issues going that route with my telex shunter, but then you have to invest in the NEM couplers. But on a bright note, I have found a flourishing market for used great condition relex couplers on eBay, so that offset the cost. Nice bonus is these cars can also combine better with my other cars that came standard with NEM couplers - the relex couplers just seem to sit a little bit higher. Just food for thought
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 01 March 2016 08:36:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Many different names used in this thread - and probably not all with the correct meaning.
"Shirt coupler" is a typo. "Reflux coupler" also.
"Reflex coupler" means "Relex coupler" and this is a Märklin "patent". Roco do not make "Relex coupler", they just have loop and hook couplers.
AFAIK you can also call those "loop and hook couplers" the "NEM couplers" (NEM 360) as they allow mixing all brands.

Most short couplers with NEM pockets are no "NEM couiplers" as they are compatible with their own kind only. The Märklin short coupler has limited compatibility with NEM couplers, but may need manual help to engage or separate. Roco Universal Coupler might engage, but may release in curves.


Those new Telex couplers are made for use with the Märklin short coupler and will also work with the Roco Universal Coupler.
NEM couplers will easily separate as the loop is too high. Bending the loop down will lead to problems when trying to engage the coupler to other NEM couplers.

Avoid mixing old and new couplers in long trains, avoid mixing old and new couplers for remotely controlled shunting operations.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline sjbartels  
#13 Posted : 02 March 2016 04:44:38(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Many different names used in this thread - and probably not all with the correct meaning.
"Shirt coupler" is a typo. "Reflux coupler" also.
"Reflex coupler" means "Relex coupler" and this is a Märklin "patent". Roco do not make "Relex coupler", they just have loop and hook couplers.
AFAIK you can also call those "loop and hook couplers" the "NEM couplers" (NEM 360) as they allow mixing all brands.

Most short couplers with NEM pockets are no "NEM couiplers" as they are compatible with their own kind only. The Märklin short coupler has limited compatibility with NEM couplers, but may need manual help to engage or separate. Roco Universal Coupler might engage, but may release in curves.


Those new Telex couplers are made for use with the Märklin short coupler and will also work with the Roco Universal Coupler.
NEM couplers will easily separate as the loop is too high. Bending the loop down will lead to problems when trying to engage the coupler to other NEM couplers.

Avoid mixing old and new couplers in long trains, avoid mixing old and new couplers for remotely controlled shunting operations.


Exactly! The NEM couplers worked great with my newer Telex switcher that didn't work with my relex couplers. Swapping out the relex couplers worked for me as a reesult and as I said in my previous post, sold the relex couplers and that offset the cost of the change. I honestly prefer the NEM couplers anyway
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
Offline Minok  
#14 Posted : 02 March 2016 05:43:59(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Many different names used in this thread - and probably not all with the correct meaning.
"Shirt coupler" is a typo. "Reflux coupler" also.
"Reflex coupler" means "Relex coupler" and this is a Märklin "patent". Roco do not make "Relex coupler", they just have loop and hook couplers.
.



I fixed the post as (I should stop using my phone to post on the forum as its not very mobile friendly and iOS auto-correct is a pain more often than not on technical jargon).
In my defense, others/professionals also called it 'reflex': http://www.gaugemaster.c...details.asp?code=MN72060 Blink


Now I just have to master not mangling the couplers whenever I put locos or cars back into the boxes and push in the end-caps Mad
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 02 March 2016 07:46:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
Exactly! The NEM couplers worked great with my newer Telex switcher that didn't work with my relex couplers. Swapping out the relex couplers worked for me as a reesult and as I said in my previous post, sold the relex couplers and that offset the cost of the change. I honestly prefer the NEM couplers anyway
The Relex couplers are NEM couplers AFAIK. The short couplers are no NEM couplers AFAIK.
I assume you removed the Relex couplers (NEM couplers) and went for Märklin short couplers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Minok  
#16 Posted : 02 March 2016 17:52:15(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post

Exactly! The NEM couplers worked great with my newer Telex switcher that didn't work with my relex couplers. Swapping out the relex couplers worked for me as a reesult and as I said in my previous post, sold the relex couplers and that offset the cost of the change. I honestly prefer the NEM couplers anyway


Can you tell me what Märklin part number your NEM couplers are, which you put in place of the relex couplers?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline sjbartels  
#17 Posted : 02 March 2016 18:35:23(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
Exactly! The NEM couplers worked great with my newer Telex switcher that didn't work with my relex couplers. Swapping out the relex couplers worked for me as a reesult and as I said in my previous post, sold the relex couplers and that offset the cost of the change. I honestly prefer the NEM couplers anyway
The Relex couplers are NEM couplers AFAIK. The short couplers are no NEM couplers AFAIK.
I assume you removed the Relex couplers (NEM couplers) and went for Märklin short couplers.


Yes, what you're describing is exactly what I did. Sorry for the terminology mix up, I'm guilty of in my mind of always thinking of the two as relex and NEM
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
Offline sjbartels  
#18 Posted : 02 March 2016 18:36:30(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post

Exactly! The NEM couplers worked great with my newer Telex switcher that didn't work with my relex couplers. Swapping out the relex couplers worked for me as a reesult and as I said in my previous post, sold the relex couplers and that offset the cost of the change. I honestly prefer the NEM couplers anyway


Can you tell me what Märklin part number your NEM couplers are, which you put in place of the relex couplers?


If you're switching the style coupler that is fitted on eBay were the 44xx type cars, then the coupler I went with is packaged as 7205
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
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Offline Minok  
#19 Posted : 02 March 2016 20:18:57(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post

Exactly! The NEM couplers worked great with my newer Telex switcher that didn't work with my relex couplers. Swapping out the relex couplers worked for me as a reesult and as I said in my previous post, sold the relex couplers and that offset the cost of the change. I honestly prefer the NEM couplers anyway


Can you tell me what Märklin part number your NEM couplers are, which you put in place of the relex couplers?


If you're switching the style coupler that is fitted on eBay were the 44xx type cars, then the coupler I went with is packaged as 7205



Groovy. Those short couplers (Kurzkupplung aka KK) are the direction I was intending to go - from relex to kk.
Of course for the cars that do have NEM sockets, but for some reason don't have KK I'll go with 7203.
Though once I swap out my various KK on the passenger cars with current conducting versions, I'll have plenty of non-conducting KKs to use.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
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