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Offline Br502362  
#1 Posted : 25 February 2016 16:26:21(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Hi,

Today I installed capacitors to all my Rheingold coaches 43850, 43860, 43870 and 43880 to avoid flickering lights.
They are equipped with Märklin led light strips.

Here is starting point:

DSC_0001aaa.jpg

And here it is after installation:

DSC_0002aaa.jpg

I used a 470 micro Farad, 25V capacitor and a 1N4005 diode as Märklin uses AC current.

Easy to solder and no flickering anymore Cool

I also made this modification to one of my 4027 tin plate coaches but it didn't work first.
As I run out of 1N4005 diodes and drove to local electronics store to buy more I found out out why it didn't work on 4027.
Problem was conventional bulbs which use more current. I installed led bulbs and now it works like it should.
Next I run out of those led bulbs Laugh Have to order more of them from moba-petersdorf at eBay.de


thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Br502362
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 25 February 2016 17:08:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Br502362 Go to Quoted Post
I used a 470 micro Farad, 25V capacitor and a 1N4005 diode as Märklin uses AC current.
So better don't reverse the direction when in analogue operation - this will charge the capacitor with 35+ V.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Br502362  
#3 Posted : 25 February 2016 17:19:06(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Br502362 Go to Quoted Post
I used a 470 micro Farad, 25V capacitor and a 1N4005 diode as Märklin uses AC current.
So better don't reverse the direction when in analogue operation - this will charge the capacitor with 35+ V.



Hi H0,

35+ V really??? I went just upstairs and measured voltage when reversing and got only 24V from my white tranformers.

Cheers
Åke
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Br502362
Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 25 February 2016 17:24:36(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Br502362 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Br502362 Go to Quoted Post
I used a 470 micro Farad, 25V capacitor and a 1N4005 diode as Märklin uses AC current.
So better don't reverse the direction when in analogue operation - this will charge the capacitor with 35+ V.



Hi H0,

35+ V really??? I went just upstairs and measured voltage when reversing and got only 24V from my white tranformers.

Cheers
Åke


How did you measure the voltage? Is it peak-to-peak or RMS?

The rectified DC value can be much higher than the RMS AC voltage.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Br502362  
#5 Posted : 25 February 2016 17:35:09(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Br502362 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Br502362 Go to Quoted Post
I used a 470 micro Farad, 25V capacitor and a 1N4005 diode as Märklin uses AC current.
So better don't reverse the direction when in analogue operation - this will charge the capacitor with 35+ V.



Hi H0,

35+ V really??? I went just upstairs and measured voltage when reversing and got only 24V from my white tranformers.

Cheers
Åke


How did you measure the voltage? Is it peak-to-peak or RMS?

The rectified DC value can be much higher than the RMS AC voltage.


I just measured it with a simple multimeter Unsure
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Br502362
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 25 February 2016 18:06:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
25 V is the effective reversing voltage. The peak voltage is higher by sqrt(2), factor 1.41. The capacitor will be charged with the peak voltage.

Try this with a 50 V capacitor (or 35 V), a diode and your multimeter.

Or set the track voltage to e.g. 16 V and measure the voltage you get in your capacitor.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Br502362  
#7 Posted : 25 February 2016 18:28:27(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
25 V is the effective reversing voltage. The peak voltage is higher by sqrt(2), factor 1.41. The capacitor will be charged with the peak voltage.

Try this with a 50 V capacitor (or 35 V), a diode and your multimeter.

Or set the track voltage to e.g. 16 V and measure the voltage you get in your capacitor.


I measured it with 16V track voltage and got 21,4V.

Can a little bit too high peak voltage destroy the capacitor as the reversing takes only a fraction of a second?
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Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 25 February 2016 18:34:58(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
Flickering lights is either caused by weak slider contact to the third rail or weak contact to the ground (wheel) contacts. This can be avoided by having return contacts on both bogies and by using a single slider and current conducting couplings. Most often, the use of contacts on both bogies will minimize this issue. If you want to do electronic modification, you can probably design a circuit that provides residual power that will allow the lights to keep burning for a few minutes after shut down, which will also serve to keep the coach lit during interruptions.
On the newest Maerklin lighting kits, one set of contacts is to be used for connections to the axle and slider and the other set is to be used for connection to the current conducting couplers. Installing a diode as shown may interfere with one or the other of those options.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Br502362  
#9 Posted : 25 February 2016 18:54:00(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
If I have understood this right I have chosen wrong capacitors?

Would it be better to change them to 35V capacitors?



Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 25 February 2016 18:54:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Br502362 Go to Quoted Post
Would it be better to upgrade to 35V capacitor?
I can't answer that.
Many devices, including PC power supplies, have failed in the past years because cheap capacitors failed while being operated within the specified parameters.

It's a race condition: you exceed the nominal voltage but hope the voltage drops quickly before the capacitor gets too hot.
Could be dangerous if others, maybe children, play with your trains.

There is no guarantee the reversing voltage will be applied for fractions of a second only.
I think I would not take the risk.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Br502362  
#11 Posted : 25 February 2016 19:59:41(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Tom, Ray and Mike,

Thanks for you great help and advices ThumpUp

Cheers
Åke
Offline anthpao  
#12 Posted : 26 February 2016 01:58:42(UTC)
anthpao

Greece   
Joined: 20/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 125
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Throw away the diode and connect the capacitor to where the Cx (where x is a number) label is on the pcb. 25v should be enough. You will need two capacitors per pcb. You can use smaller tantalum capacitors though.
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Offline Br502362  
#13 Posted : 21 March 2016 08:30:31(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: anthpao Go to Quoted Post
Throw away the diode and connect the capacitor to where the Cx (where x is a number) label is on the pcb. 25v should be enough. You will need two capacitors per pcb. You can use smaller tantalum capacitors though.


Hi,

Ordered today a bunch of 4.7uF 20% 35V tantalum capacitors.
I will solder them to pcb's as you mentioned.

Thanks for your priceless help ThumpUp

Best regards
Åke
Offline stevep  
#14 Posted : 21 March 2016 16:40:19(UTC)
stevep

United States   
Joined: 09/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Illinois, Chicago
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Flickering lights is either caused by weak slider contact to the third rail or weak contact to the ground (wheel) contacts. This can be avoided by having return contacts on both bogies and by using a single slider and current conducting couplings. Most often, the use of contacts on both bogies will minimize this issue. If you want to do electronic modification, you can probably design a circuit that provides residual power that will allow the lights to keep burning for a few minutes after shut down, which will also serve to keep the coach lit during interruptions.
On the newest Maerklin lighting kits, one set of contacts is to be used for connections to the axle and slider and the other set is to be used for connection to the current conducting couplers. Installing a diode as shown may interfere with one or the other of those options.

Regards

Mike C


I had a problem with flickering coach lights on my new Montreal Limited. I noticed that the long tabs extending down from the light bar assembly to current conducting base plate did not seem to contact very well with the base plate. So I put a small piece of foil between to the end of the tab and the top of the base plate. This seems to have improved the problem.
Take Care,
Steve
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