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Offline steventrain  
#1 Posted : 10 February 2016 14:30:21(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Not looking good for Hornby, See BBC website - >HORNBY<
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 10 February 2016 14:57:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Not looking good for Hornby, See BBC website - >HORNBY<


Maybe Simba-Dickie will make a new acquisition ... Scared Scared Scared

Offline xxup  
#3 Posted : 10 February 2016 22:38:06(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
I do hope that Hornby recover. The new generation Airfix enabled me to buy a kit that has been long on my radar. The 1:12 1930 Supercharged 4.5L Bentley. The kit itself is poorly moulded, but the subject is of enormous interest.

See http://www.airfix.com/uk-en/1930-4-5-litre-bentley-1-12.html

Before this one, the most expensive Airfix kit I owned was the Hercules with Land Rover and Bloodhound missile. I missed many lunches and walked home from school for many weeks to save up for that one! Blushing
Adrian
UserPostedImage
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Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 11 February 2016 02:30:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
unless they get themselves out of trouble (improved sales) there will be sharks sitting on the sideline waiting for a bargain.

there can be 2 scenarios: voluntary bankruptcy or the bank applies for bankruptcy in either case, the company has to stop trading until a administrator is appointed and the administrator can decide whether or not the company is worth trading (similar to Märklin).

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline jcrtrains  
#5 Posted : 11 February 2016 20:53:27(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
They have acquired everyone under the sun in model railroading. However, at the end of the day, their entire portfolio looks like the model ralilroading business. Kits, die cast toys and just about everything else they have are a declining market. None of it can compete with Minecraft, Destiny and whatever else is the flavor of the month. If you mix in execution problems with a naturally declining business, you have a significant problem.
Offline Carim  
#6 Posted : 15 February 2016 11:04:48(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
Well the CEO has paid the price, "stepping down" with immediate effect.

Carim
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Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 15 February 2016 15:11:40(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I believe part of the problem is that of exposure. Hornby products, and I include Airfix kits and Humbrol paints in this, are to be found in fewer and fewer toy shops in the UK. When the kids walk around a toy shop and don't see trains or model kits they will not ask their parents for them. It's as simple as that!

I mourn the loss of the Modelzone chain of shops, which disappeared when the economic crisis hit the UK a few years ago. They were to be found in virtually every city and town in UK at the height of their popularity. As far as I can remember they never seemed to lack customers so they would still be there if the economy had stayed buoyant. Modelzone always had an excellent stock of Airfix and Hornby products, as well as others such as Bachmann, Revell, Italeri, etc.

Yes, you can still find Hornby in specialist model shops, but the average age of customers in these shops seems to be closer to sixty than to six! You can't avoid an ever declining clientel in such a business model.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Carim  
#8 Posted : 15 February 2016 17:03:23(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
but the average age of customers in these shops seems to be closer to sixty than to six! You can't avoid an ever declining clientel in such a business model.



.... a ray of hope (no pun intended).......I went to a local exhibition yesterday and there were lots of little children who were loving it (both boys and girls). The organisers provided plenty of stepping stools and the smarter exhibitors would even run a "Thomas-like" engine when they spotted a younger audience.
Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 15 February 2016 21:33:14(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post
Well the CEO has paid the price, "stepping down" with immediate effect.

Carim


Hornby shares soar as boss is derailed >BBC Business<
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Token  
#10 Posted : 17 February 2016 07:41:09(UTC)
Token

Australia   
Joined: 25/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Sydney, NSW
It would be interesting to see the books when they're released. Typically, companies which have engaged in aggressive acquisition are burdened by debt along with the financial covenants imposed on them by the Banks to justify lending against projected, consolidated income. It is usual to see a requirement that the borrower meet minimum interest and debt service coverage - the former can be as high as 3 times total interest cost.

That means simply making a profit is not necessarily enough - if you borrow say 10 mil at a rate of - call it 4%, total interest cost 400k. A covenant at a common 2.5x would see the business having to achieve earnings before interest and tax of 1mil.

Add to that, capital structure - lets say your assets totalled 20mil. The Bank allows you to borrow up to 10mil, based on your ability to service the debt (could be projected income based on consolidation of revenues from your existing business plus the one you want to acquire). The Bank is happy because it has set a maximum gearing ratio of 70% and assuming your only borrowings are the 10m it lent you against 20m in assets and say 2m in trade creditors etc. Your net asset position is 8m. Gearing is at 60% and the 2.0mil projected profit equates to 5.0x interest cover - happy days.

The recently acquired businesses have stretched your internal accounting systems to breaking point and substantial investment in infrastructure is required due to the previous owners not having invested in their business for some time. Total cost of group restructure 1.5mil.

Your auditors then advise you that in addition to your own tired stock with outdated technology, the company you just purchased also carries obsolete stock which must be written down - another 1mil.

Finally (you hope), the restructure you have just engaged in has seriously distracted your staff due to relocations, retraining in systems and new operations - add to that, teething problems with the new sales tracking and accounting systems which are inevitably ongoing. Cash earnings are down 2mil.

All things being equal, your 2.0mil profit from last financial year is now a 2.5mil loss. You are in breech of one of your financial covenant for interest and debt service cover and the Bank is interested in a meeting.

Worse, the added acquisition costs and write off in conjunction with drop in cash earnings erodes your capital by 4.5m. What was a comfortable level of gearing now turns into Bank debt 9mil (because you would have to have made some level of principle repayment) and trade creditors 3mil (because the drop in cash-flow has resulted in you having to extend your supplier terms). Total debt 12m against total assets of 20mil less 4.5mil = 15.5mil. Gearing is now 77%.

You have now breached your gearing covenant and the Bank is now questioning the true value of your remaining assets. If the Bank were to sell last year, 20mil of assets looked comfortable enough to recover 10mil of debt. Now at 15.5mil????? But wait, some of those assets were in fact the value of the business as a going concern - based on profitability of 2.0mil per annum profit. What is it worth now?

At its most simplified (and in addition to a declining market), this is what faced the administrators of M in their time and I can only hope that Hornsby can find a well capitalised saviour to rescue them as well.

Regards,

Michael.
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Offline NS1200  
#11 Posted : 17 February 2016 19:02:51(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
The whole economic world as we know it seems to be falling apart at present.
The international shipping world has come to a complete standstill mainly because there is no demand from China.
Well established shipping companies are going down the drain.
Big department stores in Holland are closing doors and sacking thousends of people.
Tonights newspaper says that in the Rotterdam area alone (the motor of the Dutch economy) over 300,000 jobs will disappear over the next 20 years because of automation.
Mind you,Holland (AKA The Netherlands) is just a small country in the world.
The banks are hungry for money and will not excuse companies for not paying loans in time,irrespective the company name.

I sincerely hope that Marklin will survive the current slaughtering,because that is what it is.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline petestra  
#12 Posted : 17 February 2016 20:18:27(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
I'm sorry to hear this about Hornby. I do still feel good about our Märklin as I don't believe Simba-Dickie would have bought them if they thought they were beyond turning around.

As for China, I do not feel sorry for them. If they want to be a world player, they need to play fairly. (and also stop poisoning peoples' beloved pets) Peter Cool

Edited by moderator 08 February 2017 17:36:27(UTC)  | Reason: formatting (line breaks)

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Offline NS1200  
#13 Posted : 17 February 2016 21:16:35(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Peter,there is NO fairness in world wide trading.
I have been in shipping for over 40 years and i have not seen anything like it sofar.
Hundreds of ocean going vessels have been laid up sofar,and more are to follow.
In particular shipping companies which built vessels with borrowed money are on the edge of collapsing because with no income it is impossible to pay their debts to the banks.
You do not have to feel sorry for China,but hey,China does not feel sorry about us!
Demand has fallen away and we are at the short end of the stick.

Some financial people say that the next global financial crisis is less than 2 years away.........

Sleep well,
Paul.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline rmsailor  
#14 Posted : 18 February 2016 14:06:41(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 569
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
There has been considerable talk on other web-sites about the current Hornby policy with its emphasis on direct sales over supplying traditional hobby shops which in an age of limited batch production means the latter, usually the smaller shops, fail to get all or part of their requirements. Hopefully with a change of C.E.O. this will alter. It is worth remembering at least one of the reasons for the failure of the old Lima company was their treatment of their retailers.

Bob M.
Offline Carim  
#15 Posted : 23 June 2016 13:19:30(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
The news for Hornby is not getting any better: had to raise £8m to fund its turnaround plan, £1.7m of that will be used up by restructuring costs, overheads are going to be slashed by a third and the product range reduced by 40%.

Carim
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Offline michelvr  
#16 Posted : 23 June 2016 15:14:00(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Have you seen the prices for Hornby, WOW!

Marklin is now priced the same, but it's: QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY! Okay ninety nine percent of the time! Flapper

Sales have dropped, wow what a surprise, NOT!

Hornby should either pull up their socks or go the way of the dinosaurs!

Their products lately.........10-15 years are cheaply made and when you contact them for service it's NON EXISTENT!

Sent a parts request ..acknowledged ................week later reply; part not in stock contact; third party ie; Peters Spares, www.petersspares.com............SOL!!

Also worst of all the blinking price!!! Yes I'm upset that I have a collection of Hornby Class 08's and I dare not run them because of lack of basic parts. Way to go Hornby for digging your on grave, don't count me on being a dinosaur collector!

Let me the first to admit, the buck stops here!

The great news was that in 2012 I sold off my collection of Hornby to a collector who was very happy to get my collection and I was happy that I made him happy! Is't that what a business should be doing, make people happy!

Oh well good morning is so much nicer to say isn't it when you contact someone?

Michel
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#17 Posted : 24 June 2016 00:18:31(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi,
On the English modelling forums, there is a lot of talk about Hornby quality.
It seems that some of their current productions are considered highly, as regards mechanical performance and fidelity.
Other products are considered poorly.
I guess it depends on the source of the manufacture (all China but different factories).

I can only see the model railway hobby has fewer customers in the future.
The only factor that keeps it afloat (maybe) is that the current buyers have more disposable money than they had in the past.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline dominator  
#18 Posted : 24 June 2016 05:05:10(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Quote:
Some financial people say that the next global financial crisis is less than 2 years away.........

Sleep well,
Paul.


who said we are out of the last one.


I'm sorry to hear this about Hornby. I do still feel good about our Märklin as I don't believe Simba-Dickie would have bought them

if they thought they were beyond turning around. As for China, I do not feel sorry for them. If they want to be a world player, they need

to play fairly. (and also stop poisoning peoples' beloved pets)

Peter Cool

And poisoning peoples babies with poisoned baby formula.



Have you ever seen chinese bearings?????? make you cringe.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline xxup  
#19 Posted : 24 June 2016 05:24:58(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
Some financial people say that the next global financial crisis is less than 2 years away.........

Sleep well,
Paul.


who said we are out of the last one....


I totally agree.. I have just come from a computer store and the guy said that this is the quietest end of financial year sale since the GFC.. Personally, I think that the GFC triggered the second Global Depression and because there has not been the courage to deal with it properly it has hung around way longer than the one in the 1930s..

And I am not convinced that there is really a stack of disposable income floating around - at least not in Australia.

I am sympathetic to Hornby, but at the end of the day they gave all their money to China instead of circulating it through the UK by paying their employees - who the spend it locally.. But that's economics! I think that the Germans have already woken up to this one..
Adrian
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Offline Western Pacific  
#20 Posted : 24 June 2016 13:03:42(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Regarding a new financial crisis, there is lot of speculation over that after the Brexit voting results became public this morning and many have speculated that it will trigger a new finacial crisis. It has also been reported that Scotland is looking into ways to stay in since a much larger majority voted for the EU there compared to the small, but majority for Brexit in the UK as a whole.

The £ has fallen about 8% this morning as a result and that can't help Hornby when it comes to import from China to the UK.
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Offline rmsailor  
#21 Posted : 24 June 2016 13:28:48(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 569
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Hornby have said that they will be retaining all their brands but I wonder if this will apply to their continental brands, Electrotren, Rivarossi, etc.,which are operated very much at arms length as a separate group. A quick sale might be a quick way of raising capital though they to have had delivery problems.

Bob M.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#22 Posted : 25 June 2016 06:41:42(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
......

The £ has fallen about 8% this morning as a result and that can't help Hornby when it comes to import from China to the UK.


Hi Per,
Overseas buyers who deal direct with Hornby UK or any UK hobby shop, will likely be able to buy cheaper now.
So they may see a rise in export sales.
The Scaledale range probably has a few accessory items of interest to modellers generally.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline RayF  
#23 Posted : 25 June 2016 12:57:22(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
......

The £ has fallen about 8% this morning as a result and that can't help Hornby when it comes to import from China to the UK.


Hi Per,
Overseas buyers who deal direct with Hornby UK or any UK hobby shop, will likely be able to buy cheaper now.
So they may see a rise in export sales.
The Scaledale range probably has a few accessory items of interest to modellers generally.

regards
Kimball


You're right, Kimball. I have lots of Skaledale accessories on my layout. They are nominally 00 scale but the difference is not too apparent.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Western Pacific  
#24 Posted : 25 June 2016 16:18:10(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
......

The £ has fallen about 8% this morning as a result and that can't help Hornby when it comes to import from China to the UK.


Hi Per,
Overseas buyers who deal direct with Hornby UK or any UK hobby shop, will likely be able to buy cheaper now.
So they may see a rise in export sales.
The Scaledale range probably has a few accessory items of interest to modellers generally.

regards
Kimball


What I meant was that unless the CNY also drops, the import will become more expensive and that could trigger raised prices unless Hornby can afford lowering their margins.

For us within the EU it could become more expensive to buy from Hornby UK or from UK (or perhaps only English or Welsh) hobby shops since we are at least hit by national VAT, even if the shop may have added their local VAT as well. (This is something I have experienced buying model train engines and container wagons from the USA and model cars from Japan). But this will only happen when the UK has actually left the EU and that is a process that will start now and nobody can say today what the end result will be. Would Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar (I read that a large majority voted for staying in Gibraltar and hope my sourde was correct) somehow manage to stay in the EU since the majority there voted for staying? Nobody knows.

Companies like Hornby will have to look at how they set up their future business. Would they for instance make more of a difference between Liliput, Jouef and Electrotren all making continental models and the UK line of models? The continental brands may in many cases sell in several markets whereas I would guess that the interest on the continent for English models is more limited.
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Offline michelvr  
#25 Posted : 25 June 2016 16:23:19(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Aren't we lucky we are Markin fans!!!
LOL LOL Love Love Drool Drool

Michel
Offline sjlauritsen  
#26 Posted : 25 June 2016 21:51:05(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Aren't we lucky we are Markin fans!!!

There is a risk that Märklin fans within the UK will see a price increase.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#27 Posted : 25 June 2016 22:04:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Aren't we lucky we are Markin fans!!!

There is a risk that Märklin fans within the UK will see a price increase.



I'm certainly dreading my next shipment from Lokshop ... Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying

Offline michelvr  
#28 Posted : 25 June 2016 22:28:43(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Aren't we lucky we are Markin fans!!!

There is a risk that Märklin fans within the UK will see a price increase.



I'm certainly dreading my next shipment from Lokshop ... Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying



Sorry about that I wasn't thinking about you poor blokes in The UK, just in general overall!
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Offline danmarklinman  
#29 Posted : 26 June 2016 20:41:14(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Aren't we lucky we are Markin fans!!!

There is a risk that Märklin fans within the UK will see a price increase.



I'm certainly dreading my next shipment from Lokshop ... Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying



Sorry about that I wasn't thinking about you poor blokes in The UK, just in general overall!


I decided to pay for my Marklin early this year, as I thought it might happen, it could take some time for the euro to drop against the pound:-( if it does everConfused Blink
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
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Offline Carim  
#30 Posted : 08 February 2017 09:46:28(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
The Hornby saga continues, in a trading update they said that revenues would be down 20-25% for 2016 and they are continuing reducing product lines and inventories. Well at least sales to independent retailers were up 4% over Christmas.

Carim
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Offline RayF  
#31 Posted : 08 February 2017 10:22:39(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post
The Hornby saga continues, in a trading update they said that revenues would be down 20-25% for 2016 and they are continuing reducing product lines and inventories. Well at least sales to independent retailers were up 4% over Christmas.

Carim


It's hardly surprising. Hornby trains have disappeared from the high street. Modelzone used to have a good range but they have gone, and the toy shops that are left don't stock model trains at all. Toys-r-us no longer have a train section either. (Remember 'trains-r-us?')

Kids ask their parents for the toys they see. If they don't see trains in the shops they don't ask for them. Model railways are now the sole preserve of the specialist model shop, and they are usually found tucked away in a back street or even worse, an industrial estate unit! Even worse, existing railway modellers don't take their kids to these shops either, so the younger generation are growing up without a legacy of playing with train sets.





Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Marius in Africa  
#32 Posted : 08 February 2017 16:36:12(UTC)
Marius in Africa

South Africa   
Joined: 05/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 419
Location: Boksburg, Gauteng
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post
The Hornby saga continues, in a trading update they said that revenues would be down 20-25% for 2016 and they are continuing reducing product lines and inventories. Well at least sales to independent retailers were up 4% over Christmas.

Carim


It's hardly surprising. Hornby trains have disappeared from the high street. Modelzone used to have a good range but they have gone, and the toy shops that are left don't stock model trains at all. Toys-r-us no longer have a train section either. (Remember 'trains-r-us?')

Kids ask their parents for the toys they see. If they don't see trains in the shops they don't ask for them. Model railways are now the sole preserve of the specialist model shop, and they are usually found tucked away in a back street or even worse, an industrial estate unit! Even worse, existing railway modellers don't take their kids to these shops either, so the younger generation are growing up without a legacy of playing with train sets.


And Marklin decided to produce a gold plated model and sell it at exorbitant profits; will this ultra-low volume ULTRA high price, niche item help them to survive? I will wait for another five or ten years and let time be the judge on this strategy, when the older generation of supporters are gone.
Marius in Africa

HO, ECoS 2, Märklin C-track, any country, any design, any era & any brand which i like.
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Offline danmarklinman  
#33 Posted : 09 February 2017 09:26:58(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Hornby shot themselves in the foot, by first making a massive profit from Thomas and friends and them waisting it. by buying Lima, and Jouef tooling. And then having to re-tool them?? Instead of re-tooling British models?? What were they 🤔 Thinking???
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
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Offline nitramretep  
#34 Posted : 09 February 2017 10:37:31(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
They were not thinking, obviously!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#35 Posted : 09 February 2017 12:48:12(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Another part of shooting themselves in the foot was the loss they made on the models they did for the 2012 Olympics. They tried to emulate Marklin by making a dose of special models but they didn't sell very well at all, and I understand they ended up with a lot of unsold stock.

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Offline danmarklinman  
#36 Posted : 09 February 2017 13:08:49(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Another part of shooting themselves in the foot was the loss they made on the models they did for the 2012 Olympics. They tried to emulate Marklin by making a dose of special models but they didn't sell very well at all, and I understand they ended up with a lot of unsold stock.



Yes I remember, Most of it was rubbish, they must of made a bit with the Harry Potter franchise as well. What did they spend that on??
My local model shop owner said. That Hornby just did not listen to them and others, and eventually lost out to Bachman 00. Plus Graham Farish Bachman. All of it being very nice models. But getting more expensive?
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
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Offline astewar1  
#37 Posted : 12 February 2017 19:45:46(UTC)
astewar1

United States   
Joined: 10/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 20
I guess they think they have brand entitlement. Maybe the CEO should join some of these enthusiast forums.
Offline Bryan  
#38 Posted : 13 February 2017 02:02:43(UTC)
Bryan

Australia   
Joined: 08/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 209
Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia
The problem with modern Hornby is the quality when compared with the European brands. Marklin for instance price wise is not that more than Hornby and miles ahead in quality. Marklin is beautifully made, comes apart with nuts and bolts and spare parts are available. Hornby is quite obviously Chinese made and starts deteriately once it comes out of the box. There are many Hornby models you cannot even take apart without breaking lugs etc. as for spare parts, that went years ago.
It must be remembered that Hornby originally was a brand called Tri-ang, aimed at kids and was always a throw away product from the outset. 50 years ago Tri-ang had the chance to continue the quality of the aquired Hornby Dublo range which they did not. Now that the current market place is dominated by middle aged people who can desern quality and not the children of the past, there in is a problem. The Tri-ang business model may not be working so well anymore, loosing site of the current market. The prominent point with Marklin buyers was the the trains were made in Germany, to German quality. Marklin took big notice of this, brought production back from China. Modern Hornby are locked into China only production, with rising prices, a Chinese build tag, their future does not look good at all.

Bryan
Offline kiwiAlan  
#39 Posted : 13 February 2017 14:24:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bryan Go to Quoted Post

It must be remembered that Hornby originally was a brand called Tri-ang, aimed at kids and was always a throw away product from the outset.

Bryan


Umm, no it wasn't. Triang was always a pretty rubbish brand, but Hornby was originally manufactured by the Meccano company, and totally unrelated to Triang. Triang eventually bought up the Hornby name and remainder of what was left of Meccano after the Meccano company went broke.

Originally Posted by: Bryan Go to Quoted Post

50 years ago Tri-ang had the chance to continue the quality of the aquired Hornby Dublo range which they did not.


... which alludes to what I said above, but is at odds with what you first said.
Offline Bryan  
#40 Posted : 13 February 2017 14:52:26(UTC)
Bryan

Australia   
Joined: 08/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 209
Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia
Sorry, it should have read ' It must be remembered that modern Hornby originally was a brand called Tri-ang". If I may correct you also, Meccano did not go broke, their shares in February 1964 were still listed on the UK stock exchange, they never became insolvent. Lines Brothers bought all the Meccaco shares for 781,000 pounds, in a complete takeover bid, far from going broke.
Bryan
Offline kiwiAlan  
#41 Posted : 13 February 2017 15:04:54(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bryan Go to Quoted Post
Sorry, it should have read ' It must be remembered that modern Hornby originally was a brand called Tri-ang". If I may correct you also, Meccano did not go broke, their shares in February 1964 were still listed on the UK stock exchange, they never became insolvent. Lines Brothers bought all the Meccaco shares for 781,000 pounds, in a complete takeover bid, far from going broke.
Bryan


OK, I'm prepared to stand corrected on that. i thought they had gone broke.

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