marklin-users.net community | Forum

 
Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error
K 1801 (37059) versus K 1802 (37055)
Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Previous Topic Next Topic
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#1 Posted : 06 November 2005 23:07:43(UTC)
Retweet
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi all,

A friend of mine and I both have the 37059 and the 37055. Recently he told me that he's noticed a difference between those Württemberger K's... There's a major difference in geartrains, to be seen here:

http://www.ais.nl/K/K1801.htm

As you can see:
The old version has 4 axles connected with cog wheels, the new one (37055) has only one axle with a cog wheel.

Since we're both very interested in finding the solution to the question stated on this website I'm asking you all for help. Do you know??
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Back to top

Wish to join the discussion?! Login to your marklin-users.net community | Forum accountor Register a new forum account. Or Connect via Facebook  
Back to top  
Offline Munich 1860  
#2 Posted : 06 November 2005 23:13:57(UTC)
Retweet
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,062
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
I cannot help you, all I can say is that those photographs are great in detail !!!
Thank you,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Back to top
Offline laalves  
#3 Posted : 07 November 2005 00:17:36(UTC)
Retweet
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
I would bet cost cutting....

Luis
Back to top
WWW
Offline shannon  
#4 Posted : 07 November 2005 06:22:18(UTC)
Retweet
shannon


Joined: 27/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 353
Location: Taipei,
i think the new version (37055) is fitted with genuine situation of transmission.

the steam locomotive transmits by the side rods from the steam pressure of cylinders. 37055 depends on the motors gear installed in the boiler for mashing to the 5th gear wheels, the other wheels also powered from the size rods not from the gears attached on the wheels which has the same theory with the real loco.

i have a br44 freight loco with five sprockets running faster than br01 and electric locos. do you think it reasonable ?
Back to top
Offline Gert-Jan  
#5 Posted : 07 November 2005 11:44:16(UTC)
Retweet
Gert-Jan


Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: Netherlands
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by laalves
<br />I would bet cost cutting....

Luis


Must be production cost-cutting for sure. Just like the differences between the 3-axle driven 3000 and the 1-axle driven 30000.

B.T.W. this is THE loc that made me pick-up my M.R.R. hobby again after 10 years of absence when I saw it in the 2000 catalogue.
Mine is the Delta one, but runs absolutly smoothly with it's Faulhaber engine...
Mosty era III DB.
Back to top
WWW
Offline steventrain  
#6 Posted : 07 November 2005 11:44:27(UTC)
Retweet
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,720
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks for seeing the pictures.I can see the blue loco with mark 'MARKLIN MADE IN GERMANY' and Green loco with mark 'MARKLIN' and cant see 'MADE IN GERMANY'.It seem to change in production.Is the Green loco made from China??[}:)]
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Back to top
Offline hmsfix  
#7 Posted : 07 November 2005 12:50:21(UTC)
Retweet
hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Hi Sander,

Wonderful loks the 37055 and 37059, indeed. The diffenence in the gear construction is for optical reasons, I suppose.

The gearwheel transmission as in the 1801 has one principal problem: due to the clearance between the gearwheels the position of the crank pins and the counterweights at adjacent driver wheels are not precisely the same. This looks a little strange, especially on a lok with 4, 5 or 6 driver axles.

Also have this phenomenon with my 5-driver axle BR 44: when the rear driver wheel (with direct connection to the motor) is e.g. at the 12 o'clock position, the front driver wheel is at 10-11 o'clock. This "delay" is due to the many gear wheels on the frame.

On loks With transmision by siderods, as in the 1802, but also in the Mikado, this difference between the driver wheel positions is smaller. But also with siderods, the driver "delay" does not disappear completely.

Hans Martin
Back to top
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#8 Posted : 07 November 2005 13:23:33(UTC)
Retweet
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi all,

Thanks for your helpfull replies. I didn't notice the difference Steven mentiones. (Made in Germany) It could be an issue here. The reply Hans Martin posted is very interesting, I didn't think about that, but you are right! I suppose it's this issue and cost that made Märklin change this.

To Gert-Jan: I can imagine you picked up this hobby after seeing this model, its great! Interesting to see this is kind of a "trend" (3000 vs. 30000)
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Back to top
Offline Munich 1860  
#9 Posted : 07 November 2005 14:02:10(UTC)
Retweet
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,062
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steventrain
<br />Thanks for seeing the pictures.I can see the blue loco with mark 'MARKLIN MADE IN GERMANY' and Green loco with mark 'MARKLIN' and cant see 'MADE IN GERMANY'.It seem to change in production.Is the Green loco made from China??[}:)]
No, made in Göppingen.
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Back to top
Offline steventrain  
#10 Posted : 07 November 2005 14:25:26(UTC)
Retweet
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,720
Location: United Kingdom
OK thanks, Munich 1860.Can you tell me why Marklin have Removed 'MADE IN GERMANY'?
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Back to top
Offline digilox1  
#11 Posted : 07 November 2005 15:56:21(UTC)
Retweet
digilox1


Joined: 28/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 719
Location: ,
In my Trix version all of the driver axles are sprung except for numbers 2 and 5. It`s got the same drive as 1801 in the picture.
I dont think that the idler gears will follow the vertical movements of the drivers, so additional friction and stress is induced into the drivetrain.
Guess, the 1802 is the better runner on less than perfect trackwork.

Regards,
Manfred
Back to top
Offline Tony  
#12 Posted : 07 November 2005 17:06:22(UTC)
Retweet
Tony

South Africa   
Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 726
Location: Cape Town
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steventrain
<br />OK thanks, Munich 1860.Can you tell me why Marklin have Removed 'MADE IN GERMANY'?


I would be very very surprised[:0][:0] if one of M's top quality and most expensive locos is made in China - that clearly cannot be the case[:0].
Regards Tony
Back to top
Offline Munich 1860  
#13 Posted : 07 November 2005 17:25:52(UTC)
Retweet
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,062
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Tony
<br />I would be very very surprised[:0][:0] if one of M's top quality and most expensive locos is made in China - that clearly cannot be the case[:0].
Well, it would be quite an achievement actually ... because THERE IS NO Märklin factory in China ....

All they do is have some of the cheap stuff assembled there and they buy electric and electronic components there.

You know I suppose Märklin's Chinese factory will soon enter Urban Legends websites ....

Regards,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Back to top
Offline steventrain  
#14 Posted : 07 November 2005 18:45:44(UTC)
Retweet
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,720
Location: United Kingdom
OK thanks Hans,I dont see any Marklin factory in china.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Back to top
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#15 Posted : 07 November 2005 22:42:00(UTC)
Retweet
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,003
Location: CA, USA
I agree with the cost cutting idea but I personally prefer the newer set up anyways. I see no major advantage and more potential problems with the older "gearbox" version I tihnk they just overdid it on the original one and realized they didn't need all that. Another thing to look into is the black DB version of this lok as well as the OBB version! Sander: what paint brand and color name are those rails weathered with in the photos, or is it a blend? It looks great.
SBB Era 2-5
Back to top
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#16 Posted : 08 November 2005 11:02:55(UTC)
Retweet
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi all,

I don't know about the DB or OBB version, but, since I know somebody who has the DB version, I'll ask him what it looks like.
To Digilox1: Me and my earlier mentioned friend have both the 1801 and 1802 and both of us are sure the 1801 is the better, smoother runner. I don't want to say the 1802 is a bad runner, but the 1801 is compared to the 1802 a class of it's own.
To John: the photographs are made by a friend of mine on his layout, I think the paint he uses is a blend. I'll ask him and let you know! wink
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Back to top
Offline pcederstrand  
#17 Posted : 08 November 2005 13:54:37(UTC)
Retweet
pcederstrand


Joined: 02/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 68
Location: Stockholm,


This is an old issue!

Actually you will even find some 37059 with and some without the mid gear.

This was changed during the production time by M.

Think it was running charasteristics and you could try to just take the mid one away by your self.

Dont have the time to dig photos or discussions in M Insider archive up today.


Regards /Peter
Back to top
WWW
Offline Osterthun  
#18 Posted : 08 November 2005 19:13:07(UTC)
Retweet
Osterthun

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 111
Location: Netherlands
Hi guys,

Thought I might join into this discussion since I am sort of the one starting it.
As an Era 1 collector, I out pointed Sander on the issue of gears at the Märklin Class 59/K.
Thanks for your interesting replies and comment, which I appreciate.

About the missing 'made in Germany' I’m no expert, but I do have a thought.
Do keep in mind that both Trix and Märklin were 'interchanging' models in their wedding days.
Many ‘new’ Trix models ~ original released in the Märklin program ~ got a sticker ‘TRIX on the (original) Märklin stamp at the bottom side (cf. Trix #23913 as an original Märklin beer van Württ. type Ni and the so called Bavarian ‘Trichterwagen’, #24302). I guess that in this issue we might consider the fact, that Märklin is using a stamp now, that fits on the Trix stamp, so to speak. I don’t know exactly which process either Trix or Märklin is using. However, some cars show as if they were stamped twice. The small Märklin stamp fits better then ‘made in Germany’.
I give it for better…
Nevertheless, Märklin locomotives still come from “Werk 3” in Göppingen, whereas rolling stock comes mostly from the Märklin site in Sonnenberg (viz. Trix, Neurenberg).
But Sander has more expertise on this issue.

The paint on my layout considering the tracks ~ as 5HorizonsRR from California asks – is Tamiya XF 64 Red Brown (acrylic paint) for the sleepers, and Revell/Humbrol paint (don’t know the number) for the tracks (1992).
The tracks were painted after fixing though… now that was really tough.

Sander, I hope you don't mind my interfering with your discussion on the subject.
I agree that 1801 still is a better runner, but I have the feeling that this also has to do with the difference between ‘hardware’ installation coming with the 1801, and the parametrical installation of an mfx-decoder. Even with speed reduction/brake reduction in the utmost value of 63 at my 1802 (mfx) the green one is still running (and braking) away in comparison with the non-parametrical blue one.
My two cents…

Regards to all of you,
Frits Osterthun
Back to top
WWW
Offline john black  
#19 Posted : 08 November 2005 19:19:10(UTC)
Retweet
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Thanks for those excellent pics on the "K", Fritz Smile
Well, since M refuses to label their stuff "Made in Germany" I guess there's only one conclusion: It is made elsewhere. But never in Germany, anymore - since they were the first to put that sticker on [}:)]biggrin

John
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
Back to top
Offline Munich 1860  
#20 Posted : 08 November 2005 23:13:46(UTC)
Retweet
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,062
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Osterthun
<br />Nevertheless, Märklin locomotives still come from “Werk 3” in Göppingen, whereas rolling stock comes mostly from the Märklin site in Solingen (viz. Trix, Neurenberg).

Frits Osterthun
You surely mean Sonneberg instead of Solingen ??

Regards,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Back to top
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#21 Posted : 08 November 2005 23:41:20(UTC)
Retweet
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi Frits,

Sure I don't mind your interference, I think it works out even better this way.
The point you've made about the other parameters is true, it's surely possible to change the behaviour of the model in some way, which makes comparing both more difficult.
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Back to top
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#22 Posted : 09 November 2005 00:23:26(UTC)
Retweet
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,003
Location: CA, USA
Thanks for the info guys! I agree it is a real hassle to paint once the tracks have been installed!
SBB Era 2-5
Back to top
Offline Osterthun  
#23 Posted : 09 November 2005 13:58:36(UTC)
Retweet
Osterthun

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 111
Location: Netherlands
Hans, sorry for my typo.
You're absolutely right: Sonnenberg it is.

John, besides difficult, it was also fun to paint (that's why it's called a hobby, I presume); but one of the major problems was to get the 'table' right under the points both coloured and foreseen with gravel and dirt. If I had a choice, I most definitively would do it otherwise.
Back to top
WWW
Offline john black  
#24 Posted : 09 November 2005 14:13:23(UTC)
Retweet
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Great job, Fritz Smile
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
Back to top
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2025, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.904 seconds.