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Offline SteamNut  
#1 Posted : 30 May 2015 00:19:01(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
Walters is running a special on this glue and I am wondering how good is it when using it on painted surfaces? Thanks - Fred
Offline sedgar2  
#2 Posted : 30 May 2015 02:59:37(UTC)
sedgar2

United States   
Joined: 06/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Virginia, King George
not sure what you mean as far as painted surfaces, the glue is first rate as far as plastic kits are concerned. The needle applicator will leave a bead of adhesive where ever it is pointed. As with most glues this type, there is a chemical reaction which 'melts' the plastic together. You don't want to get it on the outside of any parts as it will show, especially clear parts. Hope this helps, Steve
Offline SteamNut  
#3 Posted : 30 May 2015 12:28:01(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
Some liquid glue does not adhere if the surface has paint on it and only works if it is clean plastic. I paint every thing when they are still on the spruces and that is why it is a concern for me.
Offline kweekalot  
#4 Posted : 30 May 2015 22:33:06(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,306
Location: Holland
Hi Fred,

Why not try it ? Paint two sprues and try to glue them together.
I guess it will work just fine.

Marco
Offline Drongo  
#5 Posted : 31 May 2015 08:27:23(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
As Steve mentioned above, the adhesives "melt" the two plastic surfaces together. In other words, the "adhesive" dissolves the two plastic surfaces and they fuse together forming a joint. Therefore, the adhesive is not really the correct term as adhesive means that a substance that bond two surfaces by connecting to each surface and forming a bond. The thing to remember with solvent glues, is that they are NOT gap filling. This means, if there is a gap between the two surfaces, using more adhesive will not make a join. The two surfaces must contact each other to form the bond.

The solvent that I use when I make plastic model is Di-Chloro Methane (or Methylene Chloride). Some people think that it's dangerous but I started working with it 45 years ago and I'm still around. Another solvent is Methyl Ethel Ketone (or MEK) which works well with PVC based plastics. These solvents are available from chemical or laboratory supply companies. They're viscosity is like water, however, they can be "thicken up" by dissolving some offcuts of clear plastic.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline kweekalot  
#6 Posted : 31 May 2015 11:52:44(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,306
Location: Holland
For 5 years I worked 8 hours a day with MEK, I used MEK for flame polishing plastics like acrylic glass (plexiglas/ perspex ... etc)
The vapors can affect your mood and I had several smaller and bigger accidents with MEK.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kweekalot
Offline pab  
#7 Posted : 31 May 2015 16:06:23(UTC)
pab

Netherlands   
Joined: 03/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,726
I use Faller expert glue for my plastic buildings. Some buildings on my lay-out are older than 50 years now. Always used the Faller glue, which changed over the years (of course). The needle is very good for a careful and precise distribution of the glue. When the glue is clogged, I use a cigarette lighter to unclog. The glue leaves stains on the plastic, you need to be careful where to place the glue. I never use it for placing preiserleins and cars, Noch Hin&weg kleber (61120) is much better for that. You can remove that glue, but it isn't suitable for buildings or other kits.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by pab
Offline SteamNut  
#8 Posted : 31 May 2015 18:01:38(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
Thanks for all your replies. Yesterday I went to Walthers in Milwaukee ((90 miles round trip) and to see my oldest daughter who owns a bicycle shop there. This morning I tried to use it but it has turned into a solid mass in the bottle. There is a date code on the bottle but it is not legible. Will call tomorrow for a refund. The rain has stopped and the sun is out so it is time to cut the grass. Should have put in artificial turf then there would be more time for trains.
Offline 3rail4life  
#9 Posted : 01 June 2015 07:06:00(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Wow, thats really wierdScared, one things I wanted to say about about Faller Expert was how long it keeps in the bottle, I am still using the same couple of bottles I bought twenty years ago in Germany. I wonder if they have to put something in it for the US market to make it less appealing to those who would misuse it?
Offline Andrey  
#10 Posted : 01 June 2015 08:56:43(UTC)
Andrey

Russian Federation   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 641
Location: Moscow
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
Wow, thats really wierdScared, one things I wanted to say about about Faller Expert was how long it keeps in the bottle, I am still using the same couple of bottles I bought twenty years ago in Germany. I wonder if they have to put something in it for the US market to make it less appealing to those who would misuse it?


I bought Faller Expert bottle in Finland in 2010. Still use that bottle nowadays for Faller buildings, aircraft kits, it proved as reliable and effective glue. Glue keeps perfect adhesive after 5 years being opened - it became rather unexpected to me...
I don't think that manufacturer makes different quality/consist of the glue depending on the market/country they sell it.

Offline Drongo  
#11 Posted : 01 June 2015 12:44:17(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
For 5 years I worked 8 hours a day with MEK, I used MEK for flame polishing plastics like acrylic glass (plexiglas/ perspex ... etc)
The vapors can affect your mood and I had several smaller and bigger accidents with MEK.



Why did you use MEK to flame polish acrylic??? We just used a hot flame from Hydrogen & Oxygen - it gave a really good finish. No bad fumes at all.

Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline PJMärklin  
#12 Posted : 01 June 2015 13:00:07(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,033
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
Wow, thats really wierdScared, one things I wanted to say about about Faller Expert was how long it keeps in the bottle, I am still using the same couple of bottles I bought twenty years ago in Germany. I wonder if they have to put something in it for the US market to make it less appealing to those who would misuse it?


Hi adhesivants,

Likewise, I recently ran out of a bottle of Faller Expert that I bought 15-20 years ago.

It glues plastic, not paint.Wink

Regards,

PJ
Offline ninobenve  
#13 Posted : 02 June 2015 23:58:56(UTC)
ninobenve

Argentina   
Joined: 13/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Liniers 123 (entre Falkner & Strobel)
Originally Posted by: SteamNut Go to Quoted Post
Walters is running a special on this glue and I am wondering how good is it when using it on painted surfaces? Thanks - Fred


Faller Expert glue (and Revell, Airfix, or any other glue for styrene kits) definitely doesn't work on painted surfaces, because it works by melting both plastic surfaces; any paint will act as a barrier between themCursing. If you must definitely glue two painted surfaces, use -sparingly!-Huh super glue (cyanoacrilate). There is a thicker variety of CA that works as a filler for small gaps. Be advised that the joint won't be as strong as if there was no paint.
When you use glue for styrene kits, any excess that stains the bare plastic surfaces can be removed by carefullyRazz using a small brass brush (the kind used for cleaning swede and jewelry).ThumpUp
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ninobenve
Offline SteamNut  
#14 Posted : 03 June 2015 01:37:58(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
Originally Posted by: ninobenve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SteamNut Go to Quoted Post
Walters is running a special on this glue and I am wondering how good is it when using it on painted surfaces? Thanks - Fred


Faller Expert glue (and Revell, Airfix, or any other glue for styrene kits) definitely doesn't work on painted surfaces, because it works by melting both plastic surfaces; any paint will act as a barrier between themCursing. If you must definitely glue two painted surfaces, use -sparingly!-Huh super glue (cyanoacrilate). There is a thicker variety of CA that works as a filler for small gaps. Be advised that the joint won't be as strong as if there was no paint.
When you use glue for styrene kits, any excess that stains the bare plastic surfaces can be removed by carefullyRazz using a small brass brush (the kind used for cleaning swede and jewelry).ThumpUp


Thanks for the information normally I use Testors in the tube and works fine with painted surfaces. If I have some excess it is easy enough to touch up with paint since I have repainted everything. It was just Fallers glue was on sale and I was in the neighborhood to pick some up.
Offline NZMarklinist  
#15 Posted : 03 June 2015 06:06:34(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
Wow, thats really wierdScared, one things I wanted to say about about Faller Expert was how long it keeps in the bottle, I am still using the same couple of bottles I bought twenty years ago in Germany. I wonder if they have to put something in it for the US market to make it less appealing to those who would misuse it?


I've had a nearly full bottle in the fridge (2 different ones) for about 6-8 years I'll be trying it out in coming weeks and report !

this post done with https; url ThumpUp
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline kweekalot  
#16 Posted : 03 June 2015 08:28:11(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,306
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post

Why did you use MEK to flame polish acrylic??? We just used a hot flame from Hydrogen & Oxygen - it gave a really good finish. No bad fumes at all.


Because it gives the best results, MEK acts as a cooling fluid and bring the flame on the perfect polish temperature (1700 °C).
As far as I know all professional flame polishers for PMMA use MEK

Marco


UserPostedImage

Offline Drongo  
#17 Posted : 03 June 2015 12:25:55(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post

Why did you use MEK to flame polish acrylic??? We just used a hot flame from Hydrogen & Oxygen - it gave a really good finish. No bad fumes at all.


Because it gives the best results, MEK acts as a cooling fluid and bring the flame on the perfect polish temperature (1700 °C).
As far as I know all professional flame polishers for PMMA use MEK

Marco


UserPostedImage



Hi Marco,

I haven't heard of this type of flame polisher. As I mentioned before we just used Oxygen & Hydrogen the same way. I know this is off topic, but I'll be brief - when you flame polish acrylic you really stress the material and so you can't glue the pieces without crazing, so we used a diamond polishing wheel which gave a much better finish and you could glue the edges.

Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline kweekalot  
#18 Posted : 03 June 2015 14:06:56(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,306
Location: Holland
Hi Greg,

I can't tell for Australia but in Europe 'Shannon' is the market leader in flame polishers (and Diamond polishers) and all their models use MEK. Push the button to visit the Shannon website.
UserPostedImage
The factory I worked also had several diamond polishers and I used them a lot too.
The nicest polish is diamond and then flame polish, but you are right that you can't glue the material anymore when flame polished.
I think it's great to meet someone here who is also in the plexiglass bussiness.
I quit the job because I could not stand the bad smell of all the glues and solvents, specially the acrifix glues from Rohm.

Marco


Offline Drongo  
#19 Posted : 04 June 2015 09:25:12(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,121
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Marco,

I worked with acrylics for over 40 years, in fact I was brought up on it. My father was a pioneer in this country and I took over from him in 1970. I developed many processes here and our company was the leading fabricator in Sydney - all my competitors copied my ideas. I'm now retired and the manufacturing industry is Australia is just about dead, with all companies downsizing to stay alive. My old business in its heyday had 15 employees and now only has 4. My last development was producing the bubble-free glue join - not the way Roehm say, but a fast and economical method. Now everyone is doing it as "spies" were planted in my factory and the process was copied.
I also developed the TCT saw blade that produced a chip free edge - now everyone has it.
I agree about the Acrifix fumes - they are rather strong.

Likewise, I'm glad to meet someone from the authorised of the world who was an acrylic fabricator.

Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline nitramretep  
#20 Posted : 08 January 2016 16:54:47(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
The Expert glue is great. I used it to build 4 or 5 structures and had great results. I try to avoid gluing through painted surfaces as I think (IMHO)the paint interferes with the bonding. I have noticed that solvent painted surfaces are easier to bond with glue, acrylic paint is not so suitable to bonding. I try to tape or screen areas from paint that are to be glued.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by nitramretep
Offline Chipopo  
#21 Posted : 10 January 2016 08:35:32(UTC)
Chipopo

Israel   
Joined: 19/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 101
I use the FALLER SUPER EXPERT, and very satisfied
It is super quick and strong, so even my little helper
(my 10 Y/O son) that is gelling into the hobyy builds with it ThumpUp
5323_b.jpg
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Chipopo
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