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Offline Night Train  
#1 Posted : 04 September 2005 23:58:14(UTC)
Night Train


Joined: 30/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: ,
<font face="Times New Roman]</font id="Times New Roman]I am speaking for my father here. My father and I have modeled Marklin 3-rail in conventional mode for years. We are now getting new equipment that is either Delta or Digital, and he asked me to write the forum about Delta System vs. Digital System. Are there any websites or books that might explain the differences between Delta System and Digital System, and are the both of them compatible with each-other? Please write to answer this string because my father and I are looking to update our pre-existing layout with either Delta or Digital system. Oh yes, we also have a nice new Roco decapod that is very nice-looking, and want to know if Marklin Delta or Digital will work with that. The Roco engine is compatible with Marklin HO, because it has a slider shoe on the bottom, and runs in conventional mode just fine ... in fact, it runs much better than any of my Marklin engines. I bought it on-sale from a hobby shop website, and have never been disappointed in it! I have quite a bit of equipment that's both Delta and Digital. My beloved ICE-3 train is Delta, and so is my little steam switcher, and the two decapods ... both Marklin and Roco, and the 4-6-2 passenger steamers are Digital. Please contact me or the forum about any information I can access to understand the differences between Marklin Delta and Digital Systems, and whether they are compatible with each-other, and if it is going to take a great deal of work to upgrade my layout to either/or. Thank you very much! Good-bye and God-bless.
Offline MärCo  
#2 Posted : 05 September 2005 00:59:22(UTC)
MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
If you have already a layout, I advise that you let the operation of the switches and signals conventional. Further, you can upgrade in this way:

— Make an inventarisation of the locomotives that has already a decoder.
— You have to rebuild the older locomotives with a decoder. 66032 is really a nice one.
— Search on the internet for a second hand Delta Control. Then you can already start with 4 (and with a Delta Pilot 5) locomotives.
— If all locomotives has a decoder, upgrade your layout to Digital. Delta decoders will also work on Digital.
— Perhaps in a later stadium, you can upgrade the switches and signals also to Digital.

Note that conventional locomotives will not work on either Delta nor Digital. That is in my opinion the greatest problem. You firtst have to rebuild all locomotives with an decoder. What to do with a locomotive with a DC motor I don't know.
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
Offline nico van zon  
#3 Posted : 05 September 2005 01:22:39(UTC)
nico van zon


Joined: 25/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: ,
Delta is just a stripped-down version of digital.
Less addresses and less functions possible.
Offline perz  
#4 Posted : 05 September 2005 01:23:06(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
"Märklin Delta" is just a stripped-down version of the old "Märklin Digital" system. There is now also the new "Märklin Systems" which is only partly introduced so far.

Differences between the Delta and the old Digital system are:

Delta control unit can only control 5 different loco addresses, while Märklin Digital can control all 80 addresses. Control of other loco functions than speed and direction is also limited or absent with Delta control units. Delta control units can also not be expanded with add-ons like keybords (to control e.g. turnouts), memory, computer interface etc.

Delta loco decoders generally do not have regulated speed, which make them more load dependent and less smoothly running than the newer Märklin Digital decoders. Older Märklin Digital decoders are as bad as the Delta decoders in this respect. Delta decoders also generally have fewer function outputs (for e.g. light or telex couplers), or none at all. With many Delta decoders, the intensity of the head lights depend on loco speed, just like in analog mode. Delta decoders often also have fewer selectable addresses than Märklin Digital decoders.

Delta locos can be controlled with "Märklin Digital" and "Märklin Systems" control units.

"Märklin Digital" locos (and also the new "Märklin mfx" locos) can be controlled by Delta Control units, but functions like lights, sounds etc. might not work with Delta controllers.

The new "on-track-programmable" loco decoders (mainly "mfx" decoders but there are other on-track-programmable locos too) can not be programmed from Delta Control units, not what we know of in this forum at least.



It isn't really the right time for investing in a transition to digital control right now. Both Delta and Märklin Digital are on their way out, and the new "Märklin Systems" units are only partly there yet. An alternative could be to go for the Intellibox from Uhlenbrock, but you could also wait and see until the "Märklin Systems" is really out on the market.

In the mean time you could get a Delta Control or a Märklin Systems Mobile Station just to get acquainted with digital control. Both Delta Control and Mobile station can be found really cheap. But both are insufficient in the long run.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by perz
Offline pat  
#5 Posted : 05 September 2005 04:14:28(UTC)
pat


Joined: 06/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 913
Location: The Central Coast
It's all explained fairly well here but I bought the marklin insider special edition called marklin digital/how does marklin digital work? for about $10.00 it explians it in good depth
worse things happen at sea
Offline McLae  
#6 Posted : 05 September 2005 06:11:03(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
More information on Delta:
Delta decoders have an internal 'dip switch' to set the address. There are 4 switches VS 8 for old Marklin decoders. This limits the address you can use for these Loks.
The Delta controller has a 4-position selector to select one of 4 predetermined addresses. If you have more than 4 Loks, you will need to change Lok addresses to avoid conflicts. (not fun)

However, the newer Delta controllers (66045) can be used as boosters to 6021 or IB (Intellibox). I have several I plan to use this way, so Delta is not totally uselesswink.

Delta can be an easy entry to the digital world, as long as you know the limitations at the start. Realize that you will soon want more.biggrinbiggrin

As for wiring, you can insert the Delta (Or IB) between the trafo and the layout. Use the Yellow and Brown to power the controller. (I use an old Blue analog trafo to power my IB test rig.)

Welcome to the 'Digital Black Hole". biggrin[}:)]
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline john black  
#7 Posted : 05 September 2005 12:19:41(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Jerry: Delta locos will never run as smoothly as Digital locos do ... Smile
Re controllers: CU6021 is top reliable plus excellent handling qualities [:p] !!! MS and CS still have to prove ...

John
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline foumaro  
#8 Posted : 05 September 2005 16:13:14(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,426
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
All the truth with few words.biggrinbiggrinbiggrin
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black
<br />Jerry: Delta locos will never run as smoothly as Digital locos do ... Smile
Re controllers: CU6021 is top reliable plus excellent handling qualities [:p] !!! MS and CS still have to prove ...

John

Offline john black  
#9 Posted : 05 September 2005 16:17:20(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Thank you, Panayotis. You're too kind ... [:I]
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline MärCo  
#10 Posted : 06 September 2005 00:14:56(UTC)
MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
The old Delta decoder with 4 switches can:
— Provide 4 addresses in combination with a Delta Controller.
For the 5th address you need to set a digital decoder to the address 80.
— Provide 16 addresses in combination with a Digital controller like 6021 and so on.

To boldy state that a Delta decoder with 4 switches can only set to 4 addresses is not true.
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
Offline Night Train  
#11 Posted : 06 September 2005 09:37:44(UTC)
Night Train


Joined: 30/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: ,
I wish to thank everyone on the forum for such a nice set of replies! The people on the Marklin Users Forum are some of the smartest I've ever seen! You guys know your stuff! Thank you once again and God-bless. Sincerely: Night Train SmilebiggrinSmile
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#12 Posted : 06 September 2005 10:03:38(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo
<br />The old Delta decoder with 4 switches can:
— Provide 4 addresses in combination with a Delta Controller.
For the 5th address you need to set a digital decoder to the address 80.
— Provide 16 addresses in combination with a Digital controller like 6021 and so on.

To boldy state that a Delta decoder with 4 switches can only set to 4 addresses is not true.


I think it's 15; the 16th setting is for analog. Not much difference though.
/Lars
Offline Rocca  
#13 Posted : 06 September 2005 19:23:33(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 627
Hi Night,

I suggest you to read this Märklin book (item n. 0308) Einstieg in Märklin Digital. It speaks about only the Delta and the Digital System, but it doesn't tell anything about the new System. There is, anyway, a useful web-training on the Märklin hompage.
I have read also the Märklin magazine special issue.

Best regards!!

Stefano
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 10 September 2005 02:45:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
I began digital operation with a Delta Control 4f.
You can turn lights on and off, but frustration begins if you buy a fx loco (in my case a BR152 with long distance headlights and whistle). Frustration grows if you have more than 5 locos and have to duplicate addresses.
With a PC and some freeware (using the Delta Control as a booster), you can address 255 locos with all their functions. This worked OK, but having to boot the PC to run a train was annoying.
So I finally bought an Intellibox.
In short: Delta Control cannot control functions f1 thru f4, is limited to 4 (5 with Delta Pilot, 15 with internal modifications) locos; Delta Decoders normally support 15 digital addresses (don't buy too many Delta locos!) and have no load regulation and neither minimum nor maximum speed can be adjusted.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline steventrain  
#15 Posted : 10 September 2005 10:53:43(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,661
Location: United Kingdom
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black
<br />Jerry: Delta locos will never run as smoothly as Digital locos do ... Smile
Re controllers: CU6021 is top reliable plus excellent handling qualities [:p] !!!
John



Yes I agreed with john.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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