Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Gregor  
#1 Posted : 04 May 2014 19:55:24(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 961
Location: Netherlands
Looking for a matching passenger consist for my PRR GG1, Alsterstreek hinted me to the Brazilian manufacturer Frateschi.

As Marklin does not issue suitable PRR coaches, these seem to be a nice alternative. The price is really low (CHF 13,70 = € 11,20 = $ 15,25). At this price, you would not expect premium quality, however I think they make up a nice looking consist. I unfortunately only received two coaches so far (the diner car and the observation car), see below for some pictures. The coaches have interior and run very well on my M-track. They have no close-coupling mechanisms, but run quite closely coupled using the conventional couplers.

UserPostedImage
1. Some paint smear
2. Misaligned paint mask
3. Scratches on window

UserPostedImage
Scratches in paint and red stripe runs too far.

UserPostedImage
Unsharp red line, sheet liner corrugations do not align.

UserPostedImage
'Downhill' printing on one of the coaches (last A lower than first P)

UserPostedImage
Windows are made of plastic foil inside of coach, therefore retracted quite far.

UserPostedImage
Wheels are metal on plastic axles.

UserPostedImage
Although a bit rudimentary and poorly finished under the looking glass, their appearance is similar to older Marklin products. This picture compares the Frateschi PRR to a Marklin SNCF 4076 car (from the seventies).

UserPostedImage
All in all a nice consist, I look forward to receiving the remaining coaches.

Best regards,
Gregor

Edited by user 05 May 2014 00:26:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 7 users liked this useful post by Gregor
Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 04 May 2014 21:58:00(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,071
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Gregor,
Thanks for the comprehensive review.
I agree - they are excellent value for money, and they too run on my C track.

The close coupling without any mechanism, is well done - I imagine because there are no buffers to lock up.

The only problem appears to be availability.
I think maybe they are sold under the Model Power or another brand in USA.

regards
Kimball

PS - I still don't have a GG1 yet.
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline Alsterstreek  
#3 Posted : 04 May 2014 22:32:00(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
So in a nutshell, an excellent price-performance ratio I would say.
Smile
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
Offline waorb  
#4 Posted : 05 May 2014 15:38:09(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Hello!

Online shops sells those cars in Brazil for about EUR 14.

Frateschi have 3 models of Pennsilvannia cars; 1st class, dinner and observation car.

You can see the part numbers here:

http://www.frateschi.com.br/arquivos/catalogo/

(load the page 62)

I also have a collection of Frateschi cars. They run ok on Märklin rails, and even coupling on other Märklin cars very fine.

Cheers,

Walter
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by waorb
Offline Gregor  
#5 Posted : 17 June 2015 00:07:56(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 961
Location: Netherlands
UPDATE: After a year of operation, it was about time the PRR coaches received their interior lights.
I used warm white LED strips on adhesive tape.

I did not want to go into the adventure of adding sliders underneath these coaches, as they are very light, and I did not want the sliders to cause derailments. As the axles are made of plastic, I could not get the connection to ground either, unless I would make a sliding contact to the wheels themselves.

Instead I decided to take both ground and power from the loc. I soldered two wires inside the GG1, and could lead them out relatively straightforward. I glued contact pins underneath the bogies, and joined the coaches by soldering wires in between. I do not decouple cars regularly.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

I added some lead strips in the coaches to give them a bit more weight.

Best regards,
Gregor
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by Gregor
Offline waorb  
#6 Posted : 17 June 2015 01:55:46(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Interesting solution. ThumpUp

Very nice work! Woot

Cheers,

Walter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by waorb
Offline Alsterstreek  
#7 Posted : 17 June 2015 15:59:42(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Excellent !

Would it be possible to see a photo of the inside of one coach?
Offline Gregor  
#8 Posted : 17 June 2015 17:06:44(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 961
Location: Netherlands
Hi AK,

I'll see what I can do. I took yesterdays photo just before the train disappeared into the deepest corner of my shadow station. Also because of the soldered connections, I can not easily take one coach out.

Might be that I have to wait a few cycles before this GG1 emerges again.

Best regards,
Gregor
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Gregor
Offline Gregor  
#9 Posted : 17 June 2015 22:58:50(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 961
Location: Netherlands
Hi Ak,

Caught the train while still on the ramp down to the shadow station.
UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
View on the LED strip attached to the roof

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
Views inside the coach. All the seats face forward.

UserPostedImage
View inside the diner car.

UserPostedImage
View inside the observation car. All seats are with their backs to the wall.

UserPostedImage
I installed a tail light as well. People who understand photography know how to make a red light show red in the picture, I am not one of them.

Hope this clarifies,
Gregor

thanks 7 users liked this useful post by Gregor
Offline Deborail  
#10 Posted : 21 March 2016 18:33:33(UTC)
Deborail

United Arab Emirates   
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 819
Location: RAK
I have the Trix GG-1 item no 22812 and I couldn't find matching coaches and in the end I used the 21263 AMTRAK set also by Trix which is also probably appropriate for this Loco...Some GG1 units were painted with he Amtrak livery towards the end of the service life.
George

Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Deborail
Offline mike c  
#11 Posted : 21 March 2016 20:31:01(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,207
Location: Montreal, QC
Anybody looking for Pennsylvania coaches to run with the GG1 should consider these: http://rapidotrains.com/...e-lightweight-coach/#prr

The Rapido Trains PRR coaches can be equipped with their "easy-peazy" lighting system, which operates independently of rail voltage.

There are a number of GG-1 consists that can be gleaned from the photos at rail pictures.net search under GG-1 (locomotives), like this one:
http://www.railpictures....hp?id=561668&nseq=15

Regards

Mike C
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline Gregor  
#12 Posted : 21 March 2016 23:36:32(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 961
Location: Netherlands
Thanks Mike,

I googled for some more pics (rapido 100318). They sure look nice but alas... my R1 curves....

Gregor
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Gregor
Offline kimballthurlow  
#13 Posted : 22 March 2016 00:57:01(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,071
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi Gregor,
Thanks for the comprehensive review.
I agree - they are excellent value for money, and they too run on my C track.

The close coupling without any mechanism, is well done - I imagine because there are no buffers to lock up.

The only problem appears to be availability.
I think maybe they are sold under the Model Power or another brand in USA.

regards
Kimball

PS - I still don't have a GG1 yet.


Hi,
Well my Frateschis now have a Trix GG1 to pull them.
In fact I purchased two, a red one for the cars, and a green one to pull freight cars.

Here is the train on a Club layout.
UserPostedImage

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
thanks 8 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline waorb  
#14 Posted : 22 March 2016 02:05:05(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post

Well my Frateschis now have a Trix GG1 to pull them.

Good to see Frateschi trains outside Brazil. Woot

Together with my Märklins, I also have some Frateschies.
Not on the same track, but on the same layout. The tracks co-exist on the plywood... Smile

Cheers,

Walter

thanks 4 users liked this useful post by waorb
Offline Alsterstreek  
#15 Posted : 22 March 2016 16:56:02(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Frateschi streamliners rule. Today: Santa Fe.
frateschi4lvrs-sf.png
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
Offline Gregor  
#16 Posted : 13 January 2017 10:14:54(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 961
Location: Netherlands
Hmmmm...

Finally Marklin is issuing the appropriate coaches in 2017 under number 43616.

UserPostedImage

Need to compare carefully with the Frateschi's.

Best regards,
Gregor

Edited by user 28 January 2018 13:16:44(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Gregor
Offline Gregor  
#17 Posted : 28 January 2018 13:46:36(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 961
Location: Netherlands
Hi all,

Decided to have the Frateschi's replaced bij the Marklin coaches 43616. Main reasons for this:
- Easy derailment of the Fratesch's due to their low weight. Esp. during stopping on downward slope in my helix the front coach was lifted due to the weight of the remaining coaches.
- I want as much as possible to have two sliders to pick up current, and this will be difficult to install.

So I ordered a 43616 set which allows me to compare.

The printing is a bit more crisp on the Marklin coaches and also smaller font size. Also Marklin did a better job on the windows (flush with exterior).

UserPostedImage
Marklin in front

UserPostedImage
Marklin

UserPostedImage
Frateschi

Scale length is exactly the same
UserPostedImage
Frateschi top, Marklin bottom

Marklin coaches couple closer
UserPostedImage
Frateschi gap 4-5 mm, Marklin gap 2 mm

Overall impression is quite similar
UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
The clean metal makes the consist light up in the landscape.

So... is worth the money? Depends on your preference.

Pro's for Marklin are:
Better print finish
Interior lighting
Nicer interior in diner coach
Current conducting couplers
Closer coach distance (though Frateschi does look great as well)
Better window finish
Higher weight

Con's for Marklin
No roof details
Price.... (factor 7 higher)

The Marklin coaches definately look better but certainly not 7x better to justify the price. I am happy though that I can raise the speed of the train a bit, can safely run it backwards, and will not have to climb inside my helix any more to rerail the train.

As always,... a matter of preference.
Now hoping for an extension set.

Gregor
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by Gregor
Offline rbw993  
#18 Posted : 29 January 2018 18:32:41(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 834
The Frateschi observation car is more prototypical than the Marklin car. Pennsy observation cars tended to be flattened rather than rounded. The Marklin car is of the type seen on the western railroads.

Regards,
Roger
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by rbw993
Offline Gregor  
#19 Posted : 30 January 2018 14:33:43(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 961
Location: Netherlands
Originally Posted by: rbw993 Go to Quoted Post
...Pennsy observation cars tended to be flattened rather than rounded...

You are probably right, the flat versions seem to be more common, although some exceptions exist.

UserPostedImage

Judging from the number 1126 Marklin just re-used the Superchief / Montreal Limited observation car and then looked for a PRR car that came close.
UserPostedImage
Not the closest match....

Gregor
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Gregor
Offline rbw993  
#20 Posted : 30 January 2018 21:26:44(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 834
At least they didn't issue a Pennsy dome car. They didn't exist (though that didn't bother Lionel!).
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by rbw993
Offline EMD_GP7  
#21 Posted : 30 January 2018 22:01:14(UTC)
EMD_GP7


Joined: 23/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: U.K. Midlands
Originally Posted by: rbw993 Go to Quoted Post
At least they didn't issue a Pennsy dome car. They didn't exist (though that didn't bother Lionel!).


Hi all.
Most if not all Eastern Railroads did not have dome cars because of limited overpass clearance !

If you want to get it really wrong put one of these behind a New Haven F7.

UserPostedImage

New Haven did not have dome cars or F7 units ( only FL9s) !

Regards, Colin.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by EMD_GP7
Offline rbw993  
#22 Posted : 30 January 2018 22:23:53(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 834
Catenary safety was the concern on the PRR and I assume NH as well.

Regards,
Roger
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by rbw993
Offline EMD_GP7  
#23 Posted : 30 January 2018 22:43:44(UTC)
EMD_GP7


Joined: 23/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: U.K. Midlands
Originally Posted by: rbw993 Go to Quoted Post
Catenary safety was the concern on the PRR and I assume NH as well.

Regards,
Roger


Thats true !!

To quote from an American forum

"To accurately model NH and PRR with dome cars, you need to scatter glass and metal debris near your overpasses"

Another quote from the same forum
"
Baltimore & Ohio operated domes in and out of Washington, but they did not allow the dome to be occupied under catenary, ie east of Silver Spring"

Regards, Colin.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by EMD_GP7
Offline kiwiAlan  
#24 Posted : 30 January 2018 23:51:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,280
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: EMD_GP7 Go to Quoted Post

New Haven did not have dome cars or F7 units ( only FL9s) !

Regards, Colin.


But ... But ... what about the Marklin New Haven F7s Scared Scared Scared Scared

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline EMD_GP7  
#25 Posted : 31 January 2018 14:02:05(UTC)
EMD_GP7


Joined: 23/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: U.K. Midlands
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EMD_GP7 Go to Quoted Post

New Haven did not have dome cars or F7 units ( only FL9s) !

Regards, Colin.


But ... But ... what about the Marklin New Haven F7s Scared Scared Scared Scared



In the days when access to information on railroad equipment was limited to specialist books and no internet I suppose model manufacturers could use a current model and produce a version with a livery which did not accurately represent the actual locos used on that Railway/Railroad.
Several manufacturers did this and I have examples of GP9 numbered locos which are actually GP7 ( the difference is subtle but noticeable).
This saved the expense of producing actual models for a small market which would not be noticed by most purchasers.
As I mentioned the New Haven had no F7 or F7B units at all and only FL 9 units which are very different - see photo below.

UserPostedImage

Regards, Colin
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by EMD_GP7
Offline Alsterstreek  
#26 Posted : 03 February 2018 21:01:32(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Thank you for this. I do own both Santa Fe Maerklin and Frateschi streamliner coaches. Like you, I am torn when it comes to comparing the two makes. Some annotations:

Originally Posted by: Gregor Go to Quoted Post
Scale length is exactly the same
When comparing my Santa Fe coaches side by side, it turns out that the Frateschi coaches are a tad longer than the Maerklin ones - see pic (flush on the left but slightly overhanging on the right).
maerklin2018frateschi.png
Modeling another prototype than Frateschi, the Maerklin baggage car is shorter than the Maerklin coaches, while the Frateschi baggage car and coaches have the same length.

Originally Posted by: Gregor Go to Quoted Post
- Easy derailment of the Fratesch's due to their low weight. Esp. during stopping on downward slope in my helix the front coach was lifted due to the weight of the remaining coaches.
I ballasted the first car behind more than the others to overcome this. Like that downhill runs and even multiple double slip turnout crossings in my station throat are no issue (any more).

Then I noted that the overhang in curves is different due track and kingpin locations.

Another plus of the Frateschi: Unlike the sophisticated Maerklin couplers with „Kulissenfuehrung“, the less maintenance intensive and more sturdy truck-mounted couplers of Frateschi allow for coupling in curves.

P.S.: I happily mix both makes (otherwise I would not have enough sleepers for my faux Super Chief).

Edited by user 04 February 2018 01:12:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
Offline europromo  
#27 Posted : 15 September 2021 05:32:00(UTC)
europromo

United States   
Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Massillon, OH
Interesting discussion, I am pretty new to having a Marklin layout after 45 years hiatus, and it is amazing to me how much their product range has exploded. I started with 5 Herpa / Marklin consists I bought about 20 years ago as I imported & sold Herpa in NA. After getting some interesting German, Swiss and Dutch locos and passenger & freight cars, I very quickly did get interested in the American rolling stock (namely the Big Boy), and now have a bunch of NA consists on my layout as well: https://www.youtube.com/...2dS4W7Xjn6Gp--wkg/videos

thanks 4 users liked this useful post by europromo
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2021, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.954 seconds.