Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 997 Location: Netherlands
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Looking for a matching passenger consist for my PRR GG1, Alsterstreek hinted me to the Brazilian manufacturer Frateschi. As Marklin does not issue suitable PRR coaches, these seem to be a nice alternative. The price is really low (CHF 13,70 = € 11,20 = $ 15,25). At this price, you would not expect premium quality, however I think they make up a nice looking consist. I unfortunately only received two coaches so far (the diner car and the observation car), see below for some pictures. The coaches have interior and run very well on my M-track. They have no close-coupling mechanisms, but run quite closely coupled using the conventional couplers.  1. Some paint smear 2. Misaligned paint mask 3. Scratches on window  Scratches in paint and red stripe runs too far.  Unsharp red line, sheet liner corrugations do not align.  'Downhill' printing on one of the coaches (last A lower than first P)  Windows are made of plastic foil inside of coach, therefore retracted quite far.  Wheels are metal on plastic axles.  Although a bit rudimentary and poorly finished under the looking glass, their appearance is similar to older Marklin products. This picture compares the Frateschi PRR to a Marklin SNCF 4076 car (from the seventies).  All in all a nice consist, I look forward to receiving the remaining coaches. Best regards, Gregor Edited by user 05 May 2014 00:26:18(UTC)
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 7 users liked this useful post by Gregor
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,767 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Hi Gregor, Thanks for the comprehensive review. I agree - they are excellent value for money, and they too run on my C track.
The close coupling without any mechanism, is well done - I imagine because there are no buffers to lock up.
The only problem appears to be availability. I think maybe they are sold under the Model Power or another brand in USA.
regards Kimball
PS - I still don't have a GG1 yet. |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
 3 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,881 Location: Hybrid Home
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So in a nutshell, an excellent price-performance ratio I would say. |
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 1 user liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 868 Location: Brazil
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Hello! Online shops sells those cars in Brazil for about EUR 14. Frateschi have 3 models of Pennsilvannia cars; 1st class, dinner and observation car. You can see the part numbers here: http://www.frateschi.com.br/arquivos/catalogo/(load the page 62) I also have a collection of Frateschi cars. They run ok on Märklin rails, and even coupling on other Märklin cars very fine. Cheers, Walter
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 3 users liked this useful post by waorb
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Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 997 Location: Netherlands
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UPDATE: After a year of operation, it was about time the PRR coaches received their interior lights. I used warm white LED strips on adhesive tape. I did not want to go into the adventure of adding sliders underneath these coaches, as they are very light, and I did not want the sliders to cause derailments. As the axles are made of plastic, I could not get the connection to ground either, unless I would make a sliding contact to the wheels themselves. Instead I decided to take both ground and power from the loc. I soldered two wires inside the GG1, and could lead them out relatively straightforward. I glued contact pins underneath the bogies, and joined the coaches by soldering wires in between. I do not decouple cars regularly.      I added some lead strips in the coaches to give them a bit more weight. Best regards, Gregor
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 6 users liked this useful post by Gregor
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Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 868 Location: Brazil
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Interesting solution. Very nice work! Cheers, Walter
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 1 user liked this useful post by waorb
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,881 Location: Hybrid Home
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Excellent !
Would it be possible to see a photo of the inside of one coach? |
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Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 997 Location: Netherlands
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Hi AK,
I'll see what I can do. I took yesterdays photo just before the train disappeared into the deepest corner of my shadow station. Also because of the soldered connections, I can not easily take one coach out.
Might be that I have to wait a few cycles before this GG1 emerges again.
Best regards, Gregor
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 1 user liked this useful post by Gregor
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Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 997 Location: Netherlands
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Hi Ak, Caught the train while still on the ramp down to the shadow station.   View on the LED strip attached to the roof   Views inside the coach. All the seats face forward.  View inside the diner car.  View inside the observation car. All seats are with their backs to the wall.  I installed a tail light as well. People who understand photography know how to make a red light show red in the picture, I am not one of them. Hope this clarifies, Gregor
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 7 users liked this useful post by Gregor
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Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK
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I have the Trix GG-1 item no 22812 and I couldn't find matching coaches and in the end I used the 21263 AMTRAK set also by Trix which is also probably appropriate for this Loco...Some GG1 units were painted with he Amtrak livery towards the end of the service life. |
George
Given enough time, tasks manage themselves. |
 3 users liked this useful post by Deborail
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC
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 3 users liked this useful post by mike c
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Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 997 Location: Netherlands
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Thanks Mike,
I googled for some more pics (rapido 100318). They sure look nice but alas... my R1 curves....
Gregor
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 2 users liked this useful post by Gregor
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,767 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow  Hi Gregor, Thanks for the comprehensive review. I agree - they are excellent value for money, and they too run on my C track.
The close coupling without any mechanism, is well done - I imagine because there are no buffers to lock up.
The only problem appears to be availability. I think maybe they are sold under the Model Power or another brand in USA.
regards Kimball
PS - I still don't have a GG1 yet. Hi, Well my Frateschis now have a Trix GG1 to pull them. In fact I purchased two, a red one for the cars, and a green one to pull freight cars. Here is the train on a Club layout.  regards Kimball |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
 8 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 868 Location: Brazil
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Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow  Well my Frateschis now have a Trix GG1 to pull them.
Good to see Frateschi trains outside Brazil. Together with my Märklins, I also have some Frateschies. Not on the same track, but on the same layout. The tracks co-exist on the plywood... Cheers, Walter
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 4 users liked this useful post by waorb
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,881 Location: Hybrid Home
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Frateschi streamliners rule. Today: Santa Fe.  |
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 7 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 997 Location: Netherlands
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Hmmmm... Finally Marklin is issuing the appropriate coaches in 2017 under number 43616.  Need to compare carefully with the Frateschi's. Best regards, Gregor Edited by user 28 January 2018 13:16:44(UTC)
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 3 users liked this useful post by Gregor
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Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 997 Location: Netherlands
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Hi all, Decided to have the Frateschi's replaced bij the Marklin coaches 43616. Main reasons for this: - Easy derailment of the Fratesch's due to their low weight. Esp. during stopping on downward slope in my helix the front coach was lifted due to the weight of the remaining coaches. - I want as much as possible to have two sliders to pick up current, and this will be difficult to install. So I ordered a 43616 set which allows me to compare. The printing is a bit more crisp on the Marklin coaches and also smaller font size. Also Marklin did a better job on the windows (flush with exterior).  Marklin in front  Marklin  Frateschi Scale length is exactly the same  Frateschi top, Marklin bottom Marklin coaches couple closer  Frateschi gap 4-5 mm, Marklin gap 2 mm Overall impression is quite similar    The clean metal makes the consist light up in the landscape. So... is worth the money? Depends on your preference. Pro's for Marklin are: Better print finish Interior lighting Nicer interior in diner coach Current conducting couplers Closer coach distance (though Frateschi does look great as well) Better window finish Higher weight Con's for Marklin No roof details Price.... (factor 7 higher) The Marklin coaches definately look better but certainly not 7x better to justify the price. I am happy though that I can raise the speed of the train a bit, can safely run it backwards, and will not have to climb inside my helix any more to rerail the train. As always,... a matter of preference. Now hoping for an extension set. Gregor
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 7 users liked this useful post by Gregor
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Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,061
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The Frateschi observation car is more prototypical than the Marklin car. Pennsy observation cars tended to be flattened rather than rounded. The Marklin car is of the type seen on the western railroads.
Regards, Roger |
Modeling Immensee, mile/km 0 on the Gottard. SBB Era V.
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 3 users liked this useful post by rbw993
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Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 997 Location: Netherlands
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Originally Posted by: rbw993  ...Pennsy observation cars tended to be flattened rather than rounded... You are probably right, the flat versions seem to be more common, although some exceptions exist.  Judging from the number 1126 Marklin just re-used the Superchief / Montreal Limited observation car and then looked for a PRR car that came close.  Not the closest match.... Gregor
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 2 users liked this useful post by Gregor
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Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,061
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At least they didn't issue a Pennsy dome car. They didn't exist (though that didn't bother Lionel!). |
Modeling Immensee, mile/km 0 on the Gottard. SBB Era V.
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 3 users liked this useful post by rbw993
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Joined: 23/11/2010(UTC) Posts: 193 Location: U.K. Midlands
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Originally Posted by: rbw993  At least they didn't issue a Pennsy dome car. They didn't exist (though that didn't bother Lionel!). Hi all. Most if not all Eastern Railroads did not have dome cars because of limited overpass clearance ! If you want to get it really wrong put one of these behind a New Haven F7.  New Haven did not have dome cars or F7 units ( only FL9s) ! Regards, Colin.
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 3 users liked this useful post by EMD_GP7
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Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,061
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Catenary safety was the concern on the PRR and I assume NH as well.
Regards, Roger |
Modeling Immensee, mile/km 0 on the Gottard. SBB Era V.
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 3 users liked this useful post by rbw993
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Joined: 23/11/2010(UTC) Posts: 193 Location: U.K. Midlands
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Originally Posted by: rbw993  Catenary safety was the concern on the PRR and I assume NH as well.
Regards, Roger Thats true !! To quote from an American forum "To accurately model NH and PRR with dome cars, you need to scatter glass and metal debris near your overpasses" Another quote from the same forum " Baltimore & Ohio operated domes in and out of Washington, but they did not allow the dome to be occupied under catenary, ie east of Silver Spring" Regards, Colin.
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 3 users liked this useful post by EMD_GP7
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,510 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 23/11/2010(UTC) Posts: 193 Location: U.K. Midlands
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan  In the days when access to information on railroad equipment was limited to specialist books and no internet I suppose model manufacturers could use a current model and produce a version with a livery which did not accurately represent the actual locos used on that Railway/Railroad. Several manufacturers did this and I have examples of GP9 numbered locos which are actually GP7 ( the difference is subtle but noticeable). This saved the expense of producing actual models for a small market which would not be noticed by most purchasers. As I mentioned the New Haven had no F7 or F7B units at all and only FL 9 units which are very different - see photo below.  Regards, Colin
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 3 users liked this useful post by EMD_GP7
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,881 Location: Hybrid Home
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Thank you for this. I do own both Santa Fe Maerklin and Frateschi streamliner coaches. Like you, I am torn when it comes to comparing the two makes. Some annotations: Originally Posted by: Gregor  Scale length is exactly the same When comparing my Santa Fe coaches side by side, it turns out that the Frateschi coaches are a tad longer than the Maerklin ones - see pic (flush on the left but slightly overhanging on the right).  Modeling another prototype than Frateschi, the Maerklin baggage car is shorter than the Maerklin coaches, while the Frateschi baggage car and coaches have the same length. Originally Posted by: Gregor  - Easy derailment of the Fratesch's due to their low weight. Esp. during stopping on downward slope in my helix the front coach was lifted due to the weight of the remaining coaches. I ballasted the first car behind more than the others to overcome this. Like that downhill runs and even multiple double slip turnout crossings in my station throat are no issue (any more). Then I noted that the overhang in curves is different due track and kingpin locations. Another plus of the Frateschi: Unlike the sophisticated Maerklin couplers with „Kulissenfuehrung“, the less maintenance intensive and more sturdy truck-mounted couplers of Frateschi allow for coupling in curves. P.S.: I happily mix both makes (otherwise I would not have enough sleepers for my faux Super Chief). Edited by user 04 February 2018 01:12:38(UTC)
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 2 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC) Posts: 32 Location: Massillon, OH
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Interesting discussion, I am pretty new to having a Marklin layout after 45 years hiatus, and it is amazing to me how much their product range has exploded. I started with 5 Herpa / Marklin consists I bought about 20 years ago as I imported & sold Herpa in NA. After getting some interesting German, Swiss and Dutch locos and passenger & freight cars, I very quickly did get interested in the American rolling stock (namely the Big Boy), and now have a bunch of NA consists on my layout as well: https://www.youtube.com/...2dS4W7Xjn6Gp--wkg/videos
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 4 users liked this useful post by europromo
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