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Offline TonyC  
#1 Posted : 01 December 2002 07:44:51(UTC)
TonyC


Joined: 01/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: ,
Hello everyone
I am new to marklin. I have just inherited a large amount of M track plus all accessories, locos and transformer.
I have started 'playing' with this. I'm more used to 12v DC systems - but I really love these Marklin trains.
I would like to ask: How is it possible to isolate a second loco in a siding? I can see that all these Marklin points/switches have a live 'frog'. I would like to use two trains on the layout - one at a time in sidings and main track.
I know this is probably an inane question, but I really don;t know how to do it :(
I hope you can help
All best regards from Tony in Scotland

Offline Lars Westerlind  
#2 Posted : 01 December 2002 10:36:36(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Hello Scotland, and Tony,
welcome to this forum and to Märklin <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>.

It's true that Märklin never lets the points control if a siding should be live or not. In this world it's always the mid rail that is isolated; the outer rails are always connected to a common ground=brown for the whole layout; when using several transformers the browns should be connected together.

To isolate, just insert a piece of paper between the tongues of two tracks.

If you have a signal, a 7042 is most prototypical, it has two red cables with a kind of cable shoe. These shoes are placed above the tongues of one track connection. One is placed in the main line, the other in the siding. When the signal is 'go', the siding gets power from the main track.

You may also use a control box with red and yellow buttons. They were blue in the past, now white. A feeder track in the siding, which may be made by yourself by soldering, or just placing an unisolated red cable between the tongues is required.

Regards,
Lars Westerlind

Offline alonso231gery  
#3 Posted : 01 December 2002 15:32:47(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
why don't you try the delta for the locos tony?

An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline Webmaster  
#4 Posted : 01 December 2002 23:18:51(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I believe Tony only has analog locos, so I do not think Delta is a viable option at the moment since you would have to convert the locos to Delta/Digital and that was not the original issue of the question... I think Lars made a good basic explanation on how to achieve the goal of isolating a track.

Tony, don't worry - the electricity is much simpler with Märklin, you only have to isolate the stud rail contacts if you want to separate circuits. Since you are familiar with DC trains, you will maybe be amazed that the "reverse loop problem" does not exist at all in the Märklin-world... <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I started a "Digital for Dummies" some time ago on this site, it has not been updated for a long time but it may help you to get the point regarding track electricity. It's in the "Digital Corner" of the site...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline alonso231gery  
#5 Posted : 01 December 2002 23:45:28(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
give more money to have a solution

An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline TonyC  
#6 Posted : 02 December 2002 00:37:43(UTC)
TonyC


Joined: 01/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: ,
Hello folks
Many thanks for your welcome to the forum and thank you for your tips!
Lars - your solutions really suit me as I have some of these parts already. My uncle died and left me this equipment, so it is new to me...but in reality quite old (1960's) equipment.
I am a mature student at the moment and as Webmaster could see, I cannot afford the digital conversion you suggested Alonso - but this is something to consider in a couple of years time. For now I am stuck in the 60's!
I will try to wire in a signal and see how that goes:)
With all best regards
Tony

Offline alonso231gery  
#7 Posted : 02 December 2002 01:12:40(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
beware if it is haunted<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#8 Posted : 02 December 2002 09:03:18(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Maybe I was to harsh to my belowed Märklin system.

Of course it's not so much a smart idea of the 2 railers, to let the turnout / point control the sidings power. It's merely a spinoff of the necessity (more or less) to change polarity of the frog; if the right wheels use the frog when going straight, then the left wheels use it when turning, and v v. And if the frog isn't live, there would be even worse electrical contact than before. We 3 railers really have some advantages we are not always aware of...

Regards,
Lars Westerlind.


Offline TonyC  
#9 Posted : 03 December 2002 05:21:40(UTC)
TonyC


Joined: 01/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: ,
Hello again!
I've checked my signals and they are all 7040. Will these do the job of isolating a section of track like the 7042?

I also have blue switch boxes, lots of wire and smaller metal boxes that look like distribution boxes - just lots of holes to plug wires into.

I don't want to blow anything so if you could give me an idea of where the wires go I'll put you on my Christmas present list :)
All best regards
Tony


Offline Lars Westerlind  
#10 Posted : 03 December 2002 09:17:46(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Hello again,
Yes, the function of 7039,7040,7042 and 7188 is exactly the same. I would say, you won't blow anything. I once learnt electricity with my Märklin, and life has learnt me that the only way of learning things is by making mistakes<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

The blue boxes with red and green buttons have momentary contacts, they are for controlling signals and points. These, and bridge pillars, are the only items of my childhood that aren't fully functional due to some shrinking, but if yours work they work. Just connecte the points and signals at the long side. At the side a brown cable should go to the transformer. And all yellows of course to the yellow of the transformer. Via the distribution boxes if you like.

I learnt the other day that there are two ways of controlling red and green. The blue cable with red plugs, when connected to brown, should always switch to red / turn. (memory rule - slow down). And the red plugs go to every second socket. Traditonal style is to start with red - meaning that the red button fully visible shows that the signal is red. The never style is to start with green, meaning that pushing the red button puts the signal to red...

My whishes for christmas is to get reports of your advances on this site
Lars <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Online PeFu  
#11 Posted : 03 December 2002 09:20:31(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,208
Hi Tony, all,

The Märklin Signal Manual 0340 has been translated to English, it can be downloaded here http://www.marklin.com/tech/SignalManual.pdf, and should provide some basic wiring information for you. Enough to qualify for your gift list...? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> Peter

Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
Offline TonyC  
#12 Posted : 05 December 2002 04:10:49(UTC)
TonyC


Joined: 01/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: ,
Hi Lars and Peter
Many thanks toyou both in Sweden! You are both qualifyers for my 'little bit of Scotland' Christmas gift! :)
Feel free to email me details and I will send you something nice in the post!
Have a great Christmas and new year.
All best regards
Tony

Offline Lorene  
#13 Posted : 06 December 2002 17:17:00(UTC)
Lorene


Joined: 13/09/2002(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
Hi Tony, I am new to signals also. However, I did find out if I put plugs on the ends of the wires ( red & green) and touch one such as green to the track it will make the arms go to the position of straight ahead and the light turn green IF it is hooked to the correct wire. If the light turns red when I touch the plug to the track then I know I have the wrong color plug on the end. The old control boxes have a small ring of color on the back that starts with green then red.
We are really lucky we have this site and such knowledgeable members to help us. Have fun! Lorene

Offline Lars Westerlind  
#14 Posted : 06 December 2002 22:06:07(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Learning time.

Lorene,
to my knowledge, if I would follow your advice, I would get the 'old' Märklin / Westerlind behaviour, where the "red button up" indicates red signal / turned. The new Märklin / Palm behaviour, where red button should turn the signal to red, and the green button the turnout/point to straight and signal to green, is the other way round... What am I missing?
<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Lars

Offline Lorene  
#15 Posted : 07 December 2002 01:23:20(UTC)
Lorene


Joined: 13/09/2002(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
You are so right. You don't miss a thing do you, Lars? I found this out quite by chance after you had helped me with my signals. It is backwards from what I was doing initially but it is really a time saver just to put on a plug, touch the track then you know which plug goes to which instruction for the signal.

Still in Texas but received my new Marklin catalogue over which I am drooling. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Offline alonso231gery  
#16 Posted : 07 December 2002 03:02:35(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
i agree with the female railroader<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle>

An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline TonyC  
#17 Posted : 09 December 2002 05:33:55(UTC)
TonyC


Joined: 01/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: ,
Thanks again folks!
Well - I found the brochure on signals interesting - and mind boggling!<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
But - in the layout I have found a little leaflet for the signals that confirms everything you said and is most helpful.
I haven't tried it yet as I've been busy with that horrible thing called work!
I'll keep you updated! <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
Thanks again
All best regards
Tony

Offline TonyC  
#18 Posted : 20 December 2002 15:17:13(UTC)
TonyC


Joined: 01/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: ,
I got it to work!
I downloaded an old leaflet from the Marklin site and it basically showed the little insulators for the centre rail. I took Lars advice and made these myself from thin card.
It works and now i can have 2 Loks on my simple oval layout with sidings!
OK - stage two: I have enough track for another circuit - so could theoretically get two trains going in opposite direections. I want to join the loops together for simple reasons of fun and enjoyment.
I have 2 transformers.
My main worry: sending 32vAC through the lot! Boom!!! <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
Any suggestions?
TC in Scotland

PS - sorry - I'm still a poor old fashioned Analog person!!

Offline Lars Westerlind  
#19 Posted : 20 December 2002 16:43:41(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Clever Tony,
yes, there is a risk of getting 32 V bridged by the slider when the train goes from one circuit to the other. Nothing to be scared of; Märklin transformers have heat protection that closes the current down if needed, but nevertheless, to be avoided.

The thing is to get the transformers in phase; when one has positive voltage, the other should have it too. So, do this:
1. Get a switch for your 230 V, with at least two outputs where your transformers are connected. You don't want to check polariy every time you swith power on, do you?
2. Have a 16 V lamp handy, or voltage meter.
3. Make sure the browns are connected together; if both transfomers are connected to track, you are automaticly connected togheter, but it does no harm to have several brown feeder tracks, and have them connected togethere by cupper cable; track is a poor conductor.
4. Put both transformers to half speed, and connect the lamp to each red of the transformers. If the lamp shines bright, the transformers are out of phase; if not lit or very dim, everything is ok.
5. If out of phase, turn one of the trafos 230 V connected 180 degrees.
Good luck,
Lars

Offline hqstu  
#20 Posted : 21 December 2002 02:49:07(UTC)
hqstu

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/04/2002(UTC)
Posts: 429
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Hi Tony,
I see you're in the UK, so (like me in NZ) you can't simple turn your 3 pin 230v plug around (those Europeans are a bit dodgy with their 2 pin plugs <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>) to change the polarity. However, if the plug is wired professionally and colour codes are adhered to both with the plug and Marklin manufacture, then you should always be in phase for a 3 pin plug.

Cheers

Stuart.
Cheers

Stuart
New Zealand
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