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Offline Alsterstreek  
#1 Posted : 04 December 2013 23:45:47(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Dear All,

Space is always constrained. Therefore, sometimes trains cannot be modelled according to prototypical length, can´t they?

So, is this short Santa Fe consist (F7A+B with one coach and one baggage car) prototypical - see photo?

Computer says yes - see hyperlink: http://www.railpictures....php?id=450287&nseq=3

Greetz - Ak Flapper
Alsterstreek attached the following image(s):
F70.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#2 Posted : 05 December 2013 00:20:08(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Hi there,

And another one: Is this short Santa Fe consist (Two Alco PA´s with one baggage car and two coaches) prototypical - see photo?

Kalmbach says yes: An article of the Model Railroader series "Pike-size prototypes and how to model them" by A. L. Schmidt gives the example of the Chicago-Los Angeles "Grand Canyon" streamliner train operated by the Santa Fe railroad, supported by an 1968 photo taken in Joliet, Illinois: Two Alco PA A-units with one baggage car and two coaches. (http://www.kalmbachstore.com/mrpdf024.html, USD 8.95). For copyright reasons I cannot post the photo here.

Cheers - Ak Tongue
Alsterstreek attached the following image(s):
PA0.jpg
Offline petestra  
#3 Posted : 05 December 2013 01:02:47(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,658
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Hi AK, good info. This is totally prototypical, to be sure. There are times of the year when

traffic is light but the timetable still needs to be operated. This is a perfect example of

this. Peter ThumpUp Smile

ps - Just don't glue 500 preiserlings waiting for this train onto your station platforms either.

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 05 December 2013 16:34:44(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Thanks Peter,
Ah, those people are all railfans. BigGrin
Greetings - Ak
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Offline rmsailor  
#5 Posted : 05 December 2013 16:45:21(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 482
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
The trouble with railfans is that they just want to watch the train go by and strive for the perfect picture, rather than buy a ticket and travel on it. That's why we end up with two coach trains and eventual withdrawal.

Bob Milne.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#6 Posted : 05 December 2013 17:01:50(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Ok, then they are not exclusively railfans. If not boarding the first train, it is because they are having tickets for the second train.
Greetz - Ak Wink
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#7 Posted : 06 December 2013 00:53:24(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Hi there,

Now let us be a little bit audacious. Is this (see pic) prototypical compared with the pix to be found under the links?

http://smg.photobucket.c...R%20Stuff/HD-38.jpg.html
http://www.monon.monon.o...go/DearbornStation01.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7547061@N02/2531678205/

Trackwork, engines idling on switches/turnouts etc?

Greetings - Ak Blink
Alsterstreek attached the following image(s):
Pr2.png
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Offline jvuye  
#8 Posted : 06 December 2013 09:42:50(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Hello AK and all,

Thoughts provoking as usual that layout of yours and what's found on it.
So it's a "play"? (Like in" Theather", since you can change the decor on the set.)

Any of the trains you show are plausible (a nuance from "realistic" for true rivet counters) as long as you can come up with an "excuse" for them.

If you dream it and/or like it, run it! (That's a good "excuse"!!)

(In my personal little HO world, anything runs: I like all trains is the "excuse", and since the layout is supposed to represent an hypothetical "International Museum of Railroad History" it is scientifically mixing all periods)

Your layout is elaborately whimsical...keep it up (please!) with (any of...) the trains you run.

BTW, I noticed that Superman must have helped docking the cargo under the Cryptonite Mill Bridge, since her masts are taller than what the bridge clearance would normally allow.
The little tug captain and the shore-man must have suffered from a serious cold sweat attack during the maneuver.

Thank you for the entertainment!

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#9 Posted : 06 December 2013 14:04:05(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Merci Jaques,

Yes, I indeed adore whimsicality and theater-style staging. And I believe also that the local superheroes have a kryptonite issue. Poor ship... Razz

Some more impressions and inspirations from the late Chicago Dearborn Station.
Throat:
http://freepages.history...rieLackawanna/192-07.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51670624@N02/7827777070/
http://www.railpictures....php?id=259826&nseq=8
Artsy:
http://www.atsfrr.com/store/Winfield.jpg
http://95993907.r.cdn77...._pics/Art/t3_PB-1013.jpg
http://www.bonnibenrubi....inger_dearborn_train.jpg

And now from another corner in Chicago, since the train shed roof shape resembles more the one on my layout. Baltimore and Ohio train pulling out of Chicago's old Grand Central Station:
http://www.boogaj.com/.a...f69e2017c329178ba970b-pi

Enjoy - Ak Woot
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Offline BrandonVA  
#10 Posted : 06 December 2013 15:01:03(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
I've really enjoyed this thread, thanks Ak.

I think you've got a great balance between imagination and prototype. It's fun, but not unbelievable. I think this image sums up how we all feel about it:

http://www.railpictures.net/vie...hp?id=207883&nseq=40

-Brandon

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Offline jvuye  
#11 Posted : 06 December 2013 15:32:27(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: BrandonVA Go to Quoted Post
I've really enjoyed this thread, thanks Ak.

I think you've got a great balance between imagination and prototype. It's fun, but not unbelievable. I think this image sums up how we all feel about it:

http://www.railpictures.net/vie...hp?id=207883&nseq=40

-Brandon



Hey!
That's how I've felt for at least the last 69 years!
How did you guess? BigGrin

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline jvuye  
#12 Posted : 06 December 2013 15:37:33(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Merci Jaques,

Yes, I indeed adore whimsicality and theater-style staging. And I believe also that the local superheroes have a kryptonite issue. Poor ship... Razz

Some more impressions and inspirations from the late Chicago Dearborn Station.
Throat:
.....

And now from another corner in Chicago, since the train shed roof shape resembles more the one on my layout. Baltimore and Ohio train pulling out of Chicago's old Grand Central Station:
http://www.boogaj.com/.a...f69e2017c329178ba970b-pi

Enjoy - Ak Woot


Even with old FT units!
And the old Chicago Paper Company warehouse....
When will Märklin make a Burlington F7 unit anyway?
Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#13 Posted : 06 December 2013 22:35:10(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Good evening,

And an ultimate one. Compare attached photos with the hyperlinked ones:

http://www.railpictures....php?id=333273&nseq=6
http://www.american-rail...m/images/DBRATSFPAEx.jpg

Greetings - Ak Smile
Alsterstreek attached the following image(s):
dbo2.png
db01.png
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Offline Dreadnought  
#14 Posted : 06 December 2013 23:15:18(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: Niagara, Ontario
An excellent thread. On my small layout anything more than five coaches looks as it the locomotive is going to ram the tail of the train. Sometimes I use six, but it is a bit much. I like seeing smaller trains that I can recreate.

I recall years ago one of the U.S. model railroad magazines used to have a section called "It Ain't Prototype". It would be pictures of real trains that were modeling scale, that is less than five coaches. It would also show strange mixes of locomotives, and coaches. I always found it encouraging, and would feel better about my often curious mixes of coaches and locomotives.
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Offline jvuye  
#15 Posted : 06 December 2013 23:16:53(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Cool!
I usually build consists based on pictures I have seen..some are quite unusual!Blink BigGrin
Maybe I should start recording these and share!
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#16 Posted : 07 December 2013 00:06:21(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Thx Dreadnought,

Is this the article you are referring to - see link?

http://peskar.org/model_...odel%20Railroader%5D.pdf

Gr. - Ak
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Offline foumaro  
#17 Posted : 07 December 2013 05:28:32(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,340
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I love this topic.I hope marklin's persons whom they responsible for what models company will produce in the future reading this topic too.LOL Love
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Offline Dreadnought  
#18 Posted : 07 December 2013 13:11:18(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Hello AK,
That is quite similar. What I recall was from the 70's or 80's. It was on one page and was just a picture of an unlikely short consist. It had the heading in large letters "It Ain't Prototype". Likely it was in Model Railroader or Rail Road Model Craftsman.
Do any members have pictures of unusual mixes of locomotives, or coaches, or freight cars? I would love seeing some shorter European consists I could put together. Era 3 and 4, even some 5 would be good
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Offline jvuye  
#19 Posted : 07 December 2013 14:29:39(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Dreadnought Go to Quoted Post
Hello AK,
That is quite similar. What I recall was from the 70's or 80's. It was on one page and was just a picture of an unlikely short consist. It had the heading in large letters "It Ain't Prototype". Likely it was in Model Railroader or Rail Road Model Craftsman.
Do any members have pictures of unusual mixes of locomotives, or coaches, or freight cars? I would love seeing some shorter European consists I could put together. Era 3 and 4, even some 5 would be good


Hi Dreadnought

One of the really "unusual" trains I' ve seen in a book on TEE recently was made just of 2 DB TEE coaches and one My-type Nohab DSB style Diesel.
Probably the shortest (lok pulled) TEE I have seen
Can easily be reproduced with a Mä 3067, then a 4085 and a 4086 (or similar like 4095 + 4096 etc..)
No restaurant car, no baggage car. Nothing!
If I get my hand on the book, I'll pass a picture along.
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline jvuye  
#20 Posted : 07 December 2013 14:40:47(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
here's a pic of TEE Merkur ...as described above
jvuye attached the following image(s):
TEE Merkur.jpg
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Western Pacific  
#21 Posted : 07 December 2013 15:56:47(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
The photo Jacques posted shows the Merkur southbound on Storstrømsbroen. I found the same photo on a site and there it is stated that it was shot in May 1978.

Being a southbound train meant that it had less than an hour to go to Rødby Færge and the ferry to Puttgarden. Onboard all the ferries there were restaurants and in the southbound direction the ferries reversed out of the harbour at Rødby, turned around and set course for Puttgarden. When getting close to Puttgarden this operation was repeated and the ferries reversed into Puttgarden harbour. This meant that the crossing time was about an hour southbound. Northbound the ferries went directly from harbour to harbour and had about 55 minutes crossing time. (Today this route is operated with double ended ferries and the crossing time is 45 minutes).

On this photo (from the internet) you can see M/S Danmark (from DSB) on the left and M/S Deutschland on the right in Rødby:

Färjor i Rödby

At that time there were two more ferries on this route: M/S Theodor Heuss (DB) and M/S Knudshoved (DSB).




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Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 07 December 2013 17:07:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,544
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
One of the really "unusual" trains I' ve seen in a book on TEE recently was made just of 2 DB TEE coaches and one My-type Nohab DSB style Diesel.
Such short TEE trains could also be seen in Germany, hauled by a V 200 loco.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline jvuye  
#23 Posted : 07 December 2013 17:24:29(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
One of the really "unusual" trains I' ve seen in a book on TEE recently was made just of 2 DB TEE coaches and one My-type Nohab DSB style Diesel.
Such short TEE trains could also be seen in Germany, hauled by a V 200 loco.



I suspected you'd be adding this important info! (there is a pic of the same train in Bhf Heringsdorf in my book, behind a BR221)
Now our friend Dreadnought can even figure a scheme where he'll be able to change the lok ...However he'll need a BR 264 switcher to shove the coaches around!BigGrin
Isn't this fun??Razz RollEyes
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Yumgui  
#24 Posted : 07 December 2013 20:50:07(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
(In my personal little HO world, anything runs: I like all trains is the "excuse", and since the layout is supposed to represent an hypothetical "International Museum of Railroad History" it is scientifically mixing all periods)

Yep, I very much like this concept ... quite evident in Ak's layout, no doubt ... ^^ !

Y ThumpUp
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline Yumgui  
#25 Posted : 07 December 2013 21:16:06(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
When will Märklin make a Burlington F7 unit anyway?

Jacques, it's done already ... ^^ ;)

Y Wink
Yumgui attached the following image(s):
IMG_5444_mod.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline Dreadnought  
#26 Posted : 07 December 2013 22:32:34(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Nohab, no have, alas. It. Is on the wish list. I like the dark red DSB, era 3, I think. (The Belgian "potato bug" is also attractive)

No BR 264, a V 100, and a V 60 can perhaps do the shunting. My V 200 is my oldest locomotive I received in 1958, it is still going strong.
The TEE cars will have to go on the wish list too.

I have one red DSB coach, I will couple a blue DB, and claim it a forerunner of the TEE. I have decided they ran trial runs before TEE was set up. :)

Jacques, thank you for the picture. It is exactly the kind of thing I love.

Maybe we should call this thread "layout size trains I have known" and invite lots of pictures?
D
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Offline jvuye  
#27 Posted : 07 December 2013 22:38:50(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
When will Märklin make a Burlington F7 unit anyway?

Jacques, it's done already ... ^^ ;)

Y Wink


Naah!
I want the Silver version (the original livery) to pull my California Zephyr
Right now I have a WP A-B-B unit and a Rio Grande A-B-A... so I can only go from Oakland to as far as Denver...BigGrin
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#28 Posted : 07 December 2013 23:55:47(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Dear All,
One of the reasons why I opted for Fanta Se (jeux de mots - courtesy of Yumgui). Fanta Se - all the way - no need to change engines.
Cheerio - Ak
Alsterstreek attached the following image(s):
2x.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#29 Posted : 08 December 2013 00:16:53(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
When will Märklin make a Burlington F7 unit anyway?

Jacques, it's done already ... ^^ ;)

Y Wink


Dear Yumgui,
Is that yours? Do we finally get to see something from your naked Maerklin?
Cheers - Ak Flapper
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Offline foumaro  
#30 Posted : 08 December 2013 03:55:45(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,340
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
When will Märklin make a Burlington F7 unit anyway?

Jacques, it's done already ... ^^ ;)

Y Wink


Naah!
I want the Silver version (the original livery) to pull my California Zephyr
Right now I have a WP A-B-B unit and a Rio Grande A-B-A... so I can only go from Oakland to as far as Denver...BigGrin
Cheers


This is the loco i am expecting too.I am running my combo with the WP f7 A-B-B and the Rio Grande PA1 A-A.I wish our expectings became reality.Love Drool LOL
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Offline Yumgui  
#31 Posted : 08 December 2013 08:55:58(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
I want the Silver version (the original livery) to pull my California Zephyr

Yep Jacques, quite astounding that Märklin hasn't yet made a Burlington Route loco ! Ahrgggg ...

Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Is that yours? Do we finally get to see something from your naked Maerklin?

Oui Ak, it's one of mine ... ^^ ;)

My naked Märklin has been streaking throughout the forum in various posts. There won't be a "My Trains" post until I have time to finish sorting and photographing everything ... but it's in the works !

In meantime, some naked pix below of my "compact" NH consist using Fleischmann tin plate cars ... :

Y Wink
Yumgui attached the following image(s):
DSCN1082_mod.jpg
DSCN1084_mod.jpg
Untitled-2.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#32 Posted : 08 December 2013 09:16:43(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Aaaah Yumgui, a homestory! ThumpUp

The New H(e)aven is indeed a (though slightly battered) beauty. The NH logo was a masterpiece of corporate identity.

And colourwise the Fleischmann coaches make sense. Which brings us back to prototypicality:
http://www.railpictures....hp?id=325095&nseq=13
http://www.railpictures....hp?id=307203&nseq=18
http://www.railpictures....hp?id=169772&nseq=74

And then, the FL9 with this adorable NH paint scheme lived on on the NY Metro North for a long time, until 2009 if I am not mistaken:
http://www.railpictures....php?id=14064&nseq=92

BTW, speaking of Fleischmann NH material, here is nice and short German blog entry with photos:
http://alte-modellbahnen...en-der-New-Haven-RR.html

Gr. - Ak BigGrin
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Offline jvuye  
#33 Posted : 08 December 2013 10:09:47(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
.....
I want the Silver version (the original livery) to pull my California Zephyr
Right now I have a WP A-B-B unit and a Rio Grande A-B-A... so I can only go from Oakland to as far as Denver...BigGrin
Cheers


This is the loco i am expecting too.I am running my combo with the WP f7 A-B-B and the Rio Grande PA1 A-A.I wish our expectings became reality.Love Drool LOL


You don't have an A-B-A Rio Grande F7 set?
jvuye attached the following image(s):
DRGW ret.jpg
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#34 Posted : 08 December 2013 13:16:20(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Hi there,

So this develops into a potato beetle and round nose oriented thread looking at both sides of the big pond. On the German side, focus is on my former turf in Northern Germany. Here is the link to a photo of dated 20.06.1959 of a V200 with four coaches on the "Pfeilerbahn" between the Elbe bridge and Hamburg Central Station. Seems to be a F-train with blue first class coaches: http://www.zusi.de/dso/2332.jpg. Ardent followers of my layout threads might recognise similarities, inspirations and name sakes.

Gr. - Ak
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Offline foumaro  
#35 Posted : 08 December 2013 14:59:10(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,340
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
.....
I want the Silver version (the original livery) to pull my California Zephyr
Right now I have a WP A-B-B unit and a Rio Grande A-B-A... so I can only go from Oakland to as far as Denver...BigGrin
Cheers


This is the loco i am expecting too.I am running my combo with the WP f7 A-B-B and the Rio Grande PA1 A-A.I wish our expectings became reality.Love Drool LOL


You don't have an A-B-A Rio Grande F7 set?


I have the Rio Grande A-A 3062-4062 but they are analog and i cannot run them with my zephyr cars.RollEyes
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#36 Posted : 08 December 2013 15:49:50(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Dear Jaques/Western Pacific/Tom,

Through your input I learned something new: The NOHAB pulled short consist on the Danish side of the "Vogelfluglinie" or "Fugleflugtslinjen" (literally: bird flight line), a transport corridor between Copenhagen, Denmark, and Hamburg, Germany had indeed a counterpart on the German side: On 31.03.78 TEE34/35 "Merkur" between Puttgarden harbour and Hamburg consisted of a 221 with two coaches - see photo shot on 31.03.78 near Lübeck: http://www.bundesbahnzei...ahre_TEE/b17-221_109.jpg

Furthermore, pictures 17, 38, 43 and 44 under the below link to the interesting webpage "V200 Hochburg Lübeck" with 1978 photos referring to the TEE Merkur. On picture 17 a colourful 221 has only two coaches in tow, on picture 44 a red 221 pulls three coaches: http://www.bundesbahnzei...200%20Hochburg%20Luebeck

Shifting from short to exotic consists - again totally new to me, pictures 34 and 40 show a 221 pulling a purely French consist on the Fehmarn Sound bridge. Finally, 20 and 35 show oddities I was aware of: Picture 20 shows a push-pull train pushing the train while having extra coaches in tow, thus the loco was in the middle of the train; the perfect excuse for a model railroader confronted with a train picking up coaches a prior train had lost in the tunnel (happened to me occasionally) - it is not a bug, it is a feature! Then photo 35 documents, a regular passenger train with a loco in front and one in the middle, respectively.

Happy prototyping!

Cheers - Ak Wink

Edited by user 13 December 2013 00:02:24(UTC)  | Reason: dyslexia

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Offline jvuye  
#37 Posted : 08 December 2013 16:15:25(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Excellent link!
In short , the message is: whatever you can imagine, has been (or will be ) running some day!
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline jvuye  
#38 Posted : 08 December 2013 17:29:22(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,708
Location: South Western France
Here's a picture on my layout of the early version of the Bavaria TEE (3 coaches!) after the NS/SBB Ram diesel unit accident at Aitrang in 1971
On the German side, it was pulled by a BR 218 diesel (Munich to Lindau) and a specially equipped SBB RE4/4 I from Lindau to Zürich.
Another short consist, perfectly prototypical and easy to handle on a small layout.
jvuye attached the following image(s):
lite-bavaria-ho.jpg
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Dreadnought  
#39 Posted : 08 December 2013 18:05:46(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: Niagara, Ontario
V 200 with two blue first class coaches are running as I write. For some silly reason it gives me pleasure to have a short, and prototypically correct train running.
Maybe I will add an SBB restaurant car and imitate Jaques' TEE.
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Offline Dreadnought  
#40 Posted : 08 December 2013 23:37:25(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: Niagara, Ontario
When I am in France I often pick up the magazine, Ferrovissime. The March 2012 issue had an article on the BB 1300 ("flat iron") locomotives. This magazine also gives the consist of trains the locomotive would have pulled at various periods.
"Express BD" ( no idea what that means) has a mix of coaches. A FS ABzm coupled with an SNCF B10 DEV did Milan central to Dunkerque. In the same consist there is a CIWL WLAN f which was from Basel to London. From Basel to Charleville it was pulled by the BB 1300. The date given is 1969.

In 1973 the same issue has a five coach train Paris east station to Charleville. Three of the coaches are DB, two SNCF. That mix works for me. The DB were going Paris Est to Giessen.

Another 1973 is from Basel to Calais maritime. It has a SBB BCm RIC doing Chasso to Calais maritime. A SNCF A4c4B5c5 DEV sleeper did the interlaced Calais Maritime part. Somewhere they all joined up behind a BB 1300.

I love mixing coaches of various countries. This is a good guide. I had to shorten the trains, and buy a BB 1300. It looks great!
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Offline Western Pacific  
#41 Posted : 09 December 2013 07:22:59(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
In relation to Alsterstreek's comment "... a 221 pulling a purely French consist on the Fehmarn Sound bridge. ...".

This must have been the Nordexpress from Paris Gare du Nord or Oostende to København H (Copenhagen).

The Nordexpress was created in 1896 by the Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits (CIWL) linking Oostende/Paris with St Petersburg. In the Interwar period a branch was created to Copenhagen and after WWII it was limited to Copenhagen as its northern endpoint even if there were direct CIWL sleeping coaches to Oslo (Norway) and Stockholm (Sweden) continuing from Copenhagen. With the opening of the Vogelfluglinie in 1963 the train took this route until it was closed down in 1997 (according to the German language Wikipedia whereas the Dutch and English language version give 2007 and the French language version gives 1986 as closing year). From the mid 1970-ies there were no CIWL coaches in the train.


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Offline Alsterstreek  
#42 Posted : 12 December 2013 20:20:11(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Thx Western Pacific,

Did some research and found a lot of information on http://vonderruhren.de/aachenbahn/seiten/d234.php. The descriptions of photos 34 (March 1978) and 40 (May 1978) refer to "D 235". D 234/235 was named "SKANDINAVIEN-PARIS-EXPRESS/PARIS-SKANDINAVIEN-EXPRESS" in 1972, but unnamed in 1979/1980. In the winter of 1979/1980, the D 235 was running:

Paris Nord - St-Quentin - Maubeuge - Jeumont - Charleroi Sud - Namur - Liège-G. - Verviers - Aachen - Köln - Düsseldorf - Essen - Gelsenkirchen - Münster - Osnabrück - Bremen - Hamburg - Lübeck - Puttgarden - Rødby F - Nykøbing - Næstved - København

Composition of the D 234 København-Paris Nord (mirroring the D 235) at Aachen station on the German-Belgian border in summer 1978:

Lok DB Hamburg - Aachen
Lok SNCB Aachen - Liège
2. Bm (DB) Hamburg - Aachen (Mo)
1.2. ABm (DB) Hamburg - Aachen
2. Bm (Y) (SNCF) Osnabrück - Paris (29.VI.-2.IX., sonst bei Bedarf)
1.2. ABm (DB) Puttgarden - Paris
2. Bm (Y) (SNCF) Puttgarden - Paris
Ds (SNCF) København - Paris
1.2. ABm (Y) (SNCF) København - Paris
2. Bm (Y) (SNCF) København - Paris
Bcm (Y) (SNCF) København - Paris
Bcm (Y) (SNCF) København - Paris (bei Bedarf)
WLABm (SNCB/CIWL) København - Aachen (D 1212) - Oostende
1.2. AB (DSB) København - Aachen (D 1212) - Oostende
Bcm (DB) København - Aachen

Greetz - Ak

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#43 Posted : 12 December 2013 20:47:52(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
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Offline Yumgui  
#44 Posted : 12 December 2013 22:28:57(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post

Aw man !

Thanks for those ^^ !

This gets me motivated to photo shoot my Penn Line Fairbanks Morse locos ... a subtle variation on the the F7's and F9's ...

Great proto research there Ak !

Y ThumpUp
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#45 Posted : 22 January 2014 23:10:29(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#46 Posted : 23 January 2014 06:11:34(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,673
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
When will Märklin make a Burlington F7 unit anyway?

Jacques, it's done already ... ^^ ;)

Y Wink


Naah!
I want the Silver version (the original livery) to pull my California Zephyr
Right now I have a WP A-B-B unit and a Rio Grande A-B-A... so I can only go from Oakland to as far as Denver...BigGrin
Cheers


Hi Jaques,

The silver Burlington (CB&Q) were a classic.

I have never purchased a Marklin F7 or any of their streamliner trains, though I find them very desirable.

I must say that Marklin have negotiated the minefield of what is prototype in US railroading in a very studious fashion.
They have not made any huge blunders yet to my knowledge.
And anyway, if they did, they would simply become collectors items. Love

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#47 Posted : 23 January 2014 11:00:03(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Hello,

There were of course short PA hauled Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad passenger trains. Example:
http://www.railpictures..../7/7/7977.1275026511.jpg

Greetz - Ak
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#48 Posted : 23 January 2014 13:15:42(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,592
Location: Southwesternmost
Hello again,

And now for something completely similar for the German Deutsche Bundesbahn, the 1950ies "F-Zug" (long-distance train). The shortest versions consisted of two first class coaches with or without dining car:

- F 39 "Mozart" Strasbourg - Salzburg in early 1957
UserPostedImage

- F15 "Sachsenross" (Saxon steed = coat of arms of the then new state of Lower Saxony)
UserPostedImage

- F13/14 "Dompfeil" ("Cathedral Arrow" = referring to the Cologne Cathedral) in June 1951

UserPostedImage

Greetings - Ak Love
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Offline DamonKelly  
#49 Posted : 23 January 2014 13:19:55(UTC)
DamonKelly

Australia   
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,410
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Hello again,

And now for something completely similar for the German Deutsche Bundesbahn, the 1950ies "F-Zug" (long-distance train). The shortest versions consisted of two first class coaches with or without dining car.

There are photographic examples of:
- F 39 "Mozart" Strasbourg - Salzburg in early 1957
UserPostedImage

- F16 at Wuppertal Barmen in 1954


http://i241.photobucket....01-Obb-Bf-CB-HD-600-.jpg

- F13/14 "Dompfeil" ("Cathedral Arrow" = referring to the Cologne Cathedral) in June 1951

UserPostedImage

Greetings - Ak


I like those!
I can actually model them!
(not having a real layout...)

--
Cheers,
Damon
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Offline BrandonVA  
#50 Posted : 23 January 2014 14:27:01(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

There were of course short PA hauled Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad passenger trains. Example:
http://www.railpictures..../7/7/7977.1275026511.jpg

Greetz - Ak



I think DRGW would be a good one for short consists. I believe overall they only had four PA-1, and two PB-1, so the trains would probably not not get too long if an Alco was pulling (however, PA-1 was more powerful than an F7). Post war they also started "fast" freight service. To overcome the grades and routes through the mountains they would run shorter freight trains with lots of motive power. They switched to near 100% diesel on their standard gauge lines as they could as to have the flexibility to mix and match MU motive power to meet this demand.

I would love to see some of those Yellow and silver DRGW coaches from Marklin someday!

Thanks for the continued inspiration of short consists....makes me feel better about the trains I run :)

-Brandon
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