marklin-users.net community | Forum

 
Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error
Question CS2 and 60174 booster - bigdaddynz
Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Previous Topic Next Topic
Offline bulenty  
#1 Posted : 12 October 2013 00:56:12(UTC)
Retweet
bulenty

Turkey   
Joined: 10/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 38
Hello,

When we use CS2 with 60174 booster,why booster feeding track side must isolate?
I could not find logical explanation.If anyone has an idea,would you please help.

Regards
Bulent

Edited by user 12 October 2013 15:05:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
Back to top

Wish to join the discussion?! Login to your marklin-users.net community | Forum accountor Register a new forum account. Or Connect via Facebook  
Back to top  
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#2 Posted : 12 October 2013 01:37:49(UTC)
Retweet
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
You have to isolate the track current from other sections feed by boosters from that feed by the CS2, otherwise you will blow up your boosters and CS2. They don't like current from another device being feed into their track outputs. However, they can stand momentary bridging of the track feed, such as when a loco pickup shoe goes over the point where the sections are isolated and momentarily bridges the sections.

If you are using 60174 boosters, you do not have to isolate the ground (brown) connection, it is OK to have that common between boosted sections.
Back to top
WWW BLOG
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline steventrain  
#3 Posted : 12 October 2013 08:11:05(UTC)
Retweet
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
60174 manual download in PDF 13MB.

Copy and paste in new window.

Quote:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/60174_betrieb.pdf
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Back to top
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by steventrain
Offline bulenty  
#4 Posted : 12 October 2013 14:17:44(UTC)
Retweet
bulenty

Turkey   
Joined: 10/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 38
Thank you.I know the user manuel.Old digital system (6021+6017+transf.) do not require seperation.I want to learn scientific mechanism of seperation.

According to me; CS2 must organize all of electrical feeding.Seperation must not require.

Regards
Back to top
Offline jeehring  
#5 Posted : 12 October 2013 16:58:36(UTC)
Retweet
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: bulenty Go to Quoted Post


When we use CS2 with 60174 booster,why booster feeding track side must isolate


Regards

.... because there is a booster inside the CS2 already. 2 boosters cannot feed the same track section.
If you need one more booster read messages above....Wink
Back to top
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jeehring
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 12 October 2013 22:10:28(UTC)
Retweet
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: bulenty Go to Quoted Post
Old digital system (6021+6017+transf.) do not require seperation.


Since when?? Confused Confused Confused

You still had to separate and isolate the track power feed (red) connection, but it was OK to have a common return (brown) with 6021/6015/6017
Back to top
WWW BLOG
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline bulenty  
#7 Posted : 14 October 2013 21:35:04(UTC)
Retweet
bulenty

Turkey   
Joined: 10/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 38
I only mean that actual electronic and computer technology, CS2 can recognize connected booster and organize feeding electricity itself.May be in the future Marklin will produce like this.

Now;ok we have to seperate as manuels.

Thanks
Back to top
Offline efel  
#8 Posted : 15 October 2013 08:46:20(UTC)
Retweet
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: bulenty Go to Quoted Post
I only mean that actual electronic and computer technology, CS2 can recognize connected booster and organize feeding electricity itself.May be in the future Marklin will produce like this.
Now;ok we have to seperate as manuels.



Of course, it would be possible to get exactly the same signal at the CS and booster outputs, that would allow to permanantly connect (short) their outputs (via the track without insulation ). But in that case, you will simply get an equivalent CS with an increased current capability. To get so, it would be cheaper to directly make such a central!

Fred
Back to top
Offline eroncelli  
#9 Posted : 15 October 2013 10:57:09(UTC)
Retweet
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
Technically speaking, everything is possible, but the circuitry would be much more complicated and, probably, will not solve each and every misconnection.
Much easier, keeping in mind that the "red" wire shall be isolated , as it was with the analog system (brown, or common, shall be connected together, for improved digital signal quality).
This configuration allows also a "selective" short circuit detection and a reduced short circuit current.
Back to top
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by eroncelli
Offline antazio  
#10 Posted : 23 January 2017 12:40:17(UTC)
Retweet
antazio

Greece   
Joined: 09/10/2016(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Attiki, Amarousion
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
You have to isolate the track current from other sections feed by boosters from that feed by the CS2, otherwise you will blow up your boosters and CS2. They don't like current from another device being feed into their track outputs. However, they can stand momentary bridging of the track feed, such as when a loco pickup shoe goes over the point where the sections are isolated and momentarily bridges the sections.

If you are using 60174 boosters, you do not have to isolate the ground (brown) connection, it is OK to have that common between boosted sections.


Dear M users
based on this comment, I would like to describe a problem I face with M booster 60174. I recently installed one M booster 60174 having isolated Red in my layout. So layout is split in two sections.
I have noticed that whenever a loco pickup shoe goes over the point of the isolated sections there is a momentary POWER CUT for the whole layout (at both sections). I suppose that this momentary power cut is due to bridging the 2 sections by the loco shoe and it last one second or half a second depending the speed of the loco... however it is quite annoying to have total power cut even for short time.... is this normal? do you always face the same issue or have made something wrong?
thanks a lot
Back to top
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 23 January 2017 13:06:54(UTC)
Retweet
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: antazio Go to Quoted Post
is this normal?
This is not normal. This can be the result of swapping red and brown in one of the booster circuits (the CS2 has an internal booster).

Do you use the same type of power supply for both CS2 and 60174?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Back to top
Offline antazio  
#12 Posted : 23 January 2017 14:07:00(UTC)
Retweet
antazio

Greece   
Joined: 09/10/2016(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Attiki, Amarousion
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: antazio Go to Quoted Post
is this normal?
This is not normal. This can be the result of swapping red and brown in one of the booster circuits (the CS2 has an internal booster).

Do you use the same type of power supply for both CS2 and 60174?


Thanks for the immediate response...
First of all the good news is that this is not normal as I was quite upset if I had to live with it. I use CS2 60215 along with power supply 60061 on both cases. So yes I use the same. I don't know how to check the swapping red and brown in booster circuits.
Back to top
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 23 January 2017 14:37:02(UTC)
Retweet
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: antazio Go to Quoted Post
I don't know how to check the swapping red and brown in booster circuits.
Make sure that both plugs (track connection of CS2 and 60174) are configured the same way. Make sure you turn both plugs the same way when comparing them (e.g. screws upwards and holes towards you).

Do you have a continuity tester?
With both plugs pulled out, you should have a connection between the two "brown", but no connection between red/red or any red/brown.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Back to top
Offline antazio  
#14 Posted : 23 January 2017 15:44:45(UTC)
Retweet
antazio

Greece   
Joined: 09/10/2016(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Attiki, Amarousion
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: antazio Go to Quoted Post
I don't know how to check the swapping red and brown in booster circuits.
Make sure that both plugs (track connection of CS2 and 60174) are configured the same way. Make sure you turn both plugs the same way when comparing them (e.g. screws upwards and holes towards you).

Do you have a continuity tester?
With both plugs pulled out, you should have a connection between the two "brown", but no connection between red/red or any red/brown.



Dear Tom

than you very much for the advice, I will check it tonight and will let u know... I hope it works!!!!!
Back to top
Offline antazio  
#15 Posted : 23 January 2017 20:00:41(UTC)
Retweet
antazio

Greece   
Joined: 09/10/2016(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Attiki, Amarousion
It was polarity issue between booster and CS2. It perfectly works now...!!!! Many thanks Tom.
Back to top
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by antazio
H0
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.831 seconds.