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Offline BrandonVA  
#1 Posted : 01 October 2013 15:43:58(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Hi all,

I saw this on ebay, looks like an original factory layout with 2100 series K track. The price is wrong IMO (also the condition is not near perfect), but I thought it may be an interesting to discuss. I am fascinated by factory layouts. I will not be bidding.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2310533...trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

0928-231053341883.jpg (auction image attached for archiving- Mod)

Does anyone have more info on this layout? Part number? Years offered? Factory picture of the layout?

Thanks,

-Brandon

Edited by moderator 12 August 2017 23:04:17(UTC)  | Reason: auction image attached for archiving- Mod

Offline biedmatt  
#2 Posted : 01 October 2013 20:04:38(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
This was listed a couple weeks back at the same price. I think they will still own it many years from now.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline ozzman  
#3 Posted : 02 October 2013 02:18:17(UTC)
ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
"I think they will still own it many years from now". True! Nice layout though...
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
Offline foumaro  
#4 Posted : 02 October 2013 08:11:08(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
This was listed a couple weeks back at the same price. I think they will still own it many years from now.


With this price tag,at least for a thousand years.BigGrin
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Offline GlennM  
#5 Posted : 02 October 2013 13:51:35(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
The price is laughable, perhaps he needs to lose a zero. Then again looking at the quality I may not even pay U$600 for it!!!!!
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline BrandonVA  
#6 Posted : 02 October 2013 14:21:26(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
I agree the price is rubbish. What about the layout itself? Does anyone have any original factory info, documentation, etc on this layout? A name?

-Brandon
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Offline cookee_nz  
#7 Posted : 02 October 2013 20:05:31(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: BrandonVA Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I saw this on ebay, looks like an original factory layout with 2100 series K track. The price is wrong IMO (also the condition is not near perfect), but I thought it may be an interesting to discuss. I am fascinated by factory layouts. I will not be bidding.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2310533...trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Does anyone have more info on this layout? Part number? Years offered? Factory picture of the layout?

Thanks,

-Brandon


Hi Brandon, fascination shared!

Layout is number 0928, image below from the dealer catalogue 1971, I was not able to find the corresponding design in any of the track-plan books that I have.

Agreed, the price is way too high, it needs a LOT of work. Very rusty track, street-lights damaged, turnout motor covers missing just at a glance.

Makes my layout 0923 (purchased in Sydney 2010 for $200!) look like the bargain of the century. Mine required a lot of work also, the turnout motor covers do rust badly but can be cleaned up with patience

On the other hand, there is some provenance, the description tells you exactly where the layout came from (J.L. Hudsons Department Store in Downtown Detroit), and if that store is still operating (unlikely) it would be interesting to see what else they can add, perhaps some store photos. There's nothing left in Detroit is there? Sad

Perhaps someone will remember seeing it as a child and thanks for the link, I've saved the images to include in an article when time permits.

Hope this image helps.

Steve
NZ
cookee_nz attached the following image(s):
K-0928-1971.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline BrandonVA  
#8 Posted : 02 October 2013 20:13:05(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Thank Cookee. Out of curiosity, do you know what year the dealer catalogs offering pre-built layouts? Sometime in the mid-80s I would guess? Or were dealer catalogs discontinued?

-Brandon
Offline cookee_nz  
#9 Posted : 03 October 2013 06:38:57(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: BrandonVA Go to Quoted Post
Thank Cookee. Out of curiosity, do you know what year the dealer catalogs offering pre-built layouts? Sometime in the mid-80s I would guess? Or were dealer catalogs discontinued?

-Brandon


Something lost in your question there, I presume you are asking what year the dealer catalogues 'stopped' offering pre-built layouts?

I have no idea about that actually, they are very hard to come by, either in hard copy or scans so the most recent catalogue I have is 1972 but it is just for display layouts. I think there may have been separate catalogues for things like advertising signs, display stands etc.

Marcus Schild may be able to give a little more info on these?

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline BrandonVA  
#10 Posted : 03 October 2013 15:13:25(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post


I have no idea about that actually, they are very hard to come by, either in hard copy or scans so the most recent catalogue I have is 1972 but it is just for display layouts. I think there may have been separate catalogues for things like advertising signs, display stands etc.

Marcus Schild may be able to give a little more info on these?



Cookee,

Yes, you fixed my question correctly. Sorry about that. I have occasionally seen different dealer catalogs on ebay, but never bought any.

I'm trying to work out a time line when they stopped making these. This is based on catalogs.

1981 - 2200 series K track replaces 2100 series. 0392M track planning book still available (I believe the last year for this book).
1982 - 0700 track planning book comes out
1986 - Marklin offers factory built custom layouts (built by Marklin service center)
1987 - Last year 7298 "set toporama" available as part of the M track S+E+T program
1990 - The factory built custom layouts (built by Marklin service center) disappear (at least from the catalogs)

It seems to me that when track planning book 0390 was available you could still buy factory pre-built layouts such as those pictured in the book. I believe this probably extends to 0392M, which I do not have (and may be the same as 0390?). I suspect that Marklin probably stopped offering factory pre-built layouts around 1986 (or before). This probably coincided with the (short lived?) program for custom factory built layouts "Finished layouts from 1 to Z." (see 1986-87 catalog page 161 or 1989-1990 catalog page 120). The 7298 toporama was probably the last item left over from the pre-built concept, offered until it was out of stock. I realize 7298 is a long way from the full pre-built layouts, but it offers similar design to some degree.

The 0700 track planning book came out in 1982, I have never seen a factory pre-built layout that wasn't either M-track or 2100 series K track. Have you seen or heard about any with 2200 series K? This may put an earlier date on the end of the pre-build layouts, or at least those based on K track.

Attached is from the 1986 catalog concerning the factory built custom layouts.

-Brandon
BrandonVA attached the following image(s):
factory custom.JPG
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Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 04 October 2013 16:25:25(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
I seen pictures on ebay - some of track is very rust brown on rails.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline BrandonVA  
#12 Posted : 04 October 2013 16:51:21(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I seen pictures on ebay - some of track is very rust brown on rails.


Steve,

I agree. The signals and lamp posts are damaged too. Some of the models are really dirty. It almost looks like part of the layout got wet for a long time, maybe sitting in a leaky corner of a basement or something. It's in rough shape at best.

-Brandon
Offline Markus Schild  
#13 Posted : 04 October 2013 19:35:28(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

I have no idea about that actually, they are very hard to come by, either in hard copy or scans so the most recent catalogue I have is 1972 but it is just for display layouts. I think there may have been separate catalogues for things like advertising signs, display stands etc.

Marcus Schild may be able to give a little more info on these?



Hi,

The last "catalogue" for dealer - layouts I know are some pages in a ring-binder "sales promotion" published in fall 1982. This folder also contains offers for dealer-cabinets, illuminated advertising, stickers and some other things a dealer needs.
The last factory-made layout which was sold in larger numbers was the MAXI-desert offered in 1996. I'm sure this layout was made by a third party, the wiring does not meet even basic standard.

From the mid 1950s to 1973 catalogues for layout were published every year. From 1973 the next catalogue I have seen was 1975. I remember a 1977 one on Ebay. I'm not sure if there are catalogues for the other years until 1982.

Regards

Markus
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Offline hennabm  
#14 Posted : 04 October 2013 21:16:00(UTC)
hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,040
Location: Edinburgh,
Hi all

Thanks for this informative thread.

I never realised that the dealers had a catalogue to choose their display layout from. Makes sense really but just hadn't thought about it.

Does anyone have an example of a dealer layout catalogue for me to look at please?

Mike
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
Offline BrandonVA  
#15 Posted : 04 October 2013 21:19:03(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Thanks Marcus, great information. In the end, it looks like factory built H0 layouts probably ended around 1982. Starting around 1980 onward you can see in the catalogs more and increasing emphasis of more "realistic" style layouts in general. In 1985 there is even an overview to the steps required to build a hardscaped style layout. I imagine the rise of interest in realism coupled with the development and release of digital control probably had some hand in the decline and discontinuation of factory build layouts.

Does anyone have any knowledge of the custom factory build layout program? Has anyone used it personally or know/know of someone who did? It would be fascinating to see custom layouts the service center made in the mid-late 80s. Who knows how popular this was (my guess is not very), but I am sure they sold some!

-Brandon
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Offline cookee_nz  
#16 Posted : 04 October 2013 21:26:01(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I seen pictures on ebay - some of track is very rust brown on rails.


Yes, very badly rusted.

When I got my one, it was also quite rusty, fortunately the tracks were not as bad as this one. I considered whether I should replace them all with 2200 series tracks but for one thing, I wanted to restore it for the lowest cost, and I wanted to keep it as original as possible.

We already had to replace several of the Faller buildings which were damaged, we replaced those with brand new ones exactly the same as the original ones.

Our one clearly had a lot of running because the double-slips are quite worn-out, some engines just will not go through them at all unless going straight, especially the smaller engines and on a layout of this size, I personally feel smaller trains look better (but that does not stop me running long ones) BigGrin

The layout on Ebay is still quite attractive as a project, it is largely complete, but would suit an enthusiast with the time and skill to refurbish it.

BUT, the asking price is ridiculous!! I'd like to know the value of the 4 offers shown so far, it would be interesting if Ebay would reveal those after the auction closes.

Even in pristine condition, you would think the layout would not be worth that much, but then you ask yourself, if you wanted to build an identical layout from scratch, you would be surprised just how much it would cost just for materials.

And perhaps this thread might be of interest for those who missed it first time round...

https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/yaf_postst11698_40-year-old-Marklin-factory--lay-out-now-in-museum.aspx

This one is not Marklin but is on Ebay Australia and has been relisted many times, started if I recall around $18,000 and kept getting lower with each relist, most recent listing down to $8990 - it was discussed here previously but I can't find that original thread now...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNIQUE-ARTISTIC-DETAILED-Model-HO-Railway-Layout-Rolling-Stock-and-extras-/200964359748
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Marklin in Oz  
#17 Posted : 08 October 2013 04:18:45(UTC)
Marklin in Oz

United States   
Joined: 24/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Lawrence Kansas
I can't add any new information for you, but chimed in to agree the price is WAY too high.
-Fred
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