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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#1 Posted : 30 August 2013 21:32:19(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Hello,
I'm have not spending enough time with my trains recent years, so I guess I missed something...

I've just bought a new croc, acutally my first, after 50+ years of wait... Acutally, the black (!) one. It has mfx decoder with
lots of sounds. Standard procedure for me is to set the secondary address in register 75 as primary address+1, as this is the way
the Intellibox handles function f0-f8. However, it did not work as expected; I could not access functions f5-f8.
Perhaps I've made something wrong, or is it common knowledge that Märklin nowadays don't map the secondary address any longer for Motorola use?
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 30 August 2013 21:45:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

Current mfx decoders should support up to 4 MM addresses (access to F0 through F15) and allow to configure how many addresses are used.
Try setting CV 49 to 5, this should enable the secondary address via register 75 (this should be the factory default).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#3 Posted : 31 August 2013 08:36:09(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
OK, I'll try that.

Did I understand correctly that more addresses could be set than the one in REG 75 for (which AFAIK is for f5-f8)?
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 31 August 2013 09:13:49(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
The new decoders are crippled 60942 decoders (same hardware, different firmware).

The 60942 manual (copy URL to address field):
Code:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/60942_betrieb.pdf


Some settings described in the manual may not work. Some settings may not work in MM mode.
With some pre-installed decoders it is possible to use four addresses for 16 functions (I tried this, but configured the loco with a CS2; I cannot guarantee that changes can be made with an IB).
Addresses can be set via CVs 1, 75, 17, and 18 (CV 49 set to 7). Or via CV 1 only (automatically taking the next three addresses; CV 49 set to 3).

AFAIK pre-installed ESU mfx decoders only support two addresses. And AFAIK the four addresses do not work for all Märklin mfx decoders.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline xxup  
#5 Posted : 31 August 2013 09:35:22(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Lars,

It might be time to think about an upgrade to an eCOS or CS2?

I used to have an Intellibox, but the real benefits of mFx are to be found in the more advanced control stations.

Cheers
Adrian
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Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 31 August 2013 09:43:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I used to have an Intellibox, but the real benefits of mFx are to be found in the more advanced control stations.
A few moons ago I disabled mfx in my "ECoS" 60212 to get rid of those "benefits".

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline xxup  
#7 Posted : 31 August 2013 10:20:45(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I used to have an Intellibox, but the real benefits of mFx are to be found in the more advanced control stations.
A few moons ago I disabled mfx in my "ECoS" 60212 to get rid of those "benefits".



What was the problem? I don't seem to have any problems with mfX on my eCos..
Adrian
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#8 Posted : 31 August 2013 12:55:09(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Well,
I did the upgrade - to IB2 ! I'm completely stuck with all the extra equipment - Intellilight, and control items, all based on LocoNet and LN programming, so I finally decided to stay. ECos was certainly considered, the new Roco Z21, and Märklin stuff. But none seems to allow for reasy LocoNet programming so I don't regret my choice. ESU also had an announcement for the LocoNet bridge, but did not deliver, Roco as well.

f0-f4 is has always been enough for me, so there is really no technical reasons for me to choose other things. The remaining reason is the rather poor service of Uhlenbrock, but so far it has worked for me.

Thansk HO for good info
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 31 August 2013 13:23:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Lars Westerlind Go to Quoted Post
ESU also had an announcement for the LocoNet bridge, but did not deliver, Roco as well.
ESU shipped the L.Net adapter months ago and as far as I'm concerned it works fine.
Roco announced they would implement the full LocoNet functionality by and by (according to their FAQ they didn't get very far yet, but one year ago they claimed they were working at it at "high pressure").

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#10 Posted : 31 August 2013 13:51:25(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
It's seem not to be a 60942, and not any other DCC capable decoder. Or at least, the IB2 doesn't speek in same language at PT. Stragely the IB2 says it get answers to DCC CV queries, but the answers values are random.

It appears that the functions may have a mapping to f9-f16, so I'm considering testing writing register 17/18, but hesitate as I don't know what decoder it has.
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 31 August 2013 14:41:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Lars Westerlind Go to Quoted Post
It's seem not to be a 60942
It's a crippled 60942. No DCC. Use MM programming only.
The 60942 manual is the best source of information, but not all documented registers (for MM programming) may work.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 31 August 2013 22:43:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
What was the problem? I don't seem to have any problems with mfX on my eCos..
Fine for you. I solved all my mfx problems by disabling the protocol.

More information here.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline xxup  
#13 Posted : 01 September 2013 00:02:18(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
What was the problem? I don't seem to have any problems with mfX on my eCos..
Fine for you. I solved all my mfx problems by disabling the protocol.

More information here.


Thanks for the very informative blog. I now understand the issue. I don't have this problem because I only have a few locos on the layout and when I add a new one I am happy to wait for the registration process to finish.

I know of people operate their layout like you and I can see that mFx is not a good protocol for unpowered shadow stations. However, the effort to remap the functions on the small number of locos that I have would frustrate me. The DCC option sounds more sensible, if very expensive. Of course, the other option is to keep the shadow yard powered and then there is the cost of one or two boosters and the associated increase in power bills.

It looks like mFx was a work in progress from its initial release, which may go some way to explaining why some decoders have more than one secondary address.

The only problem I have had with mFx is when the MM address was used instead of the mFx address. This meant that functions above f4 would not work. It has not happened for a long time, but I suspect that it was a WindigiPet (WDP) problem that was fixed in a later release, or an incorrect link between the eCos and WDP databases.
Adrian
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H0
Offline biedmatt  
#14 Posted : 01 September 2013 00:14:20(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
What was the problem? I don't seem to have any problems with mfX on my eCos..
Fine for you. I solved all my mfx problems by disabling the protocol.

More information here.


Same things here. I have switched out all MFX decoders for LokSound or LokPilot V4s except on 37772 and 37774. No matter what I try, I can't get the decoder to stop overloading. It runs for a short while, coasts down without lights or sound for a couple seconds, then runs again. Over and over.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 01 September 2013 11:41:34(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
No problems with mfx so far.

The way I run my trains is that I swap the trains on the layout for a new set from my collection once a week or so. When I do so I delete the trains registered on my MS2 and start again, as there is no way I can store all my 100+ locos on the MS2. I place the trains one by one on the layout, and the mfx ones register in seconds. The non-mfx ones I have to either select from the database or enter as a new loco. Either way I have to put a bit of though to the process, whereas the mfx does it all for me.

I get more problems when entering my non-mfx locos, as sometimes I forget there is another loco on the layout and end up messing up the addresses. The mfx locos don't seem to care if there are other locos around.

I appreciate that you guys have a more complex way of operating, and maybe you need the more accessible adjustments available with DCC, but I think that mfx is ideal for someone like me who can't be bothered with too much adjustment when I just want to get on with it and see my trains running.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 01 September 2013 13:28:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
but I think that mfx is ideal for someone like me who can't be bothered with too much adjustment when I just want to get on with it and see my trains running.
mfx is ideal for club meetings where people bring there locos along (but DCC plus loco card is as good).

MS2 plus mfx would be good if you don't want to make adjustments (too bad that locos with mouse piano decoders sometimes cannot be controlled when mfx and/or DCC locos are also in use - the nastiest MS2 bug and around for quite some time now).

My camera has auto-focus, auto-shutter, auto-exposure, auto-ISO, auto-white balance - and most of the time I use those. But each auto-thingie can be disabled for special needs in special cases.
mfx solves the same problem as DHCP: automatic address assignment. But where DHCP allow fully automatic, semi automatic (address reservation) and manual address assignment to be mixed in a network, mfx only allows fully automatic mode.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 01 September 2013 20:25:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
but I think that mfx is ideal for someone like me who can't be bothered with too much adjustment when I just want to get on with it and see my trains running.


....

MS2 plus mfx would be good if you don't want to make adjustments (too bad that locos with mouse piano decoders sometimes cannot be controlled when mfx and/or DCC locos are also in use - the nastiest MS2 bug and around for quite some time now).

....



My MS2 controls all my digital locos, including those with Delta, 6080, 6090 and 6090x, without any problems, and I mix and match all these with mfx locos at the same time without any problems.

Can you explain what difficulty you get when mixing these decoders?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 01 September 2013 21:38:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Can you explain what difficulty you get when mixing these decoders?
I don't know what causes the problem. We've had the problem at several club meetings that locos with DIP switches would not run after other locos had been running. We than do a factory reset with the MS2, unplug the wall wart for 10 seconds, register the loco with the DIP switches as the first loco - and it will run.
You can search for the loco, the lights of the loco will go on, MS2 finds the correct address of the loco - but it will not run.

Maybe a new bug. Might have been introduced around version 1.81. Modern digital controllers are complex and can have bugs that are difficult to trace.
And to get back to topic: sometimes it can be better to adhere to an old piece of advice: "Never change a running system".

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 18 September 2013 23:32:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Try setting CV 49 to 5, this should enable the secondary address via register 75 (this should be the factory default).
A user on Stummi's Forum just confirmed that he had to set CV 49 to 5 to activate the secondary address on his new BR 182 loco (Märklin #39840). Bug or feature, but it seems Märklin no longer activate the secondary address by default.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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