Israel railway tunnels dug in wrong direction

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Israel railway tunnels dug in wrong direction

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H0		#1 Posted : 15 August 2013 23:07:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,276 Location: DE-NW		Hi! The work was stopped when the tunnels were 60 cm off the route. 60 cm is not very much, but enough to cause problems. http://www.hurriyetdaily...=52604&NewsCatID=352 Quote: Work was halted on two railway tunnels – the nation’s longest -- being dug to accommodate a new high-speed line connecting Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Officials halted to project while they determine how the 60-centimeter mistake could have happened and how they might be able to make the necessary corrections. According to the newspaper Haaretz, officials hope the error will not be a costly one. A massive digging machine that sets walls in place as it bores through the hills is operated by an Italian company subcontracting to the Israeli firm undertaking the project. The project is already two years behind schedule for a number of reasons, including litigation. In 2009, the state comptroller issued a report critical of the project’s planning. Source: http://themedialine.org/...5/2013&category_id=8
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utkan		#2 Posted : 15 August 2013 23:18:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 19,116 Location: Istanbul,		Originally Posted by: H0 Hi! The work was stopped when the tunnels were 60 cm off the route. 60 cm is not very much, but enough to cause problems. http://www.hurriyetdaily...=52604&NewsCatID=352 Quote: Work was halted on two railway tunnels – the nation’s longest -- being dug to accommodate a new high-speed line connecting Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Officials halted to project while they determine how the 60-centimeter mistake could have happened and how they might be able to make the necessary corrections. According to the newspaper Haaretz, officials hope the error will not be a costly one. A massive digging machine that sets walls in place as it bores through the hills is operated by an Italian company subcontracting to the Israeli firm undertaking the project. The project is already two years behind schedule for a number of reasons, including litigation. In 2009, the state comptroller issued a report critical of the project’s planning. Source: http://themedialine.org/...5/2013&category_id=8 I like the guy's comment.....'Why do Turks care about this?'.....
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H0		#3 Posted : 15 August 2013 23:37:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,276 Location: DE-NW		The "problem" also made it into German mass media. Only bad news is good news. And it's holiday season. In Switzerland they dig tunnels from both sides and meet in the middle - off by only few centimetres. How boring. Sensational achievement, but the tabloids prefer things that go wrong. That includes German and Turkish tabloids. In Germany they want to dig tunnels. And estimated costs double before they even get started. That's also more interesting.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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xxup		#4 Posted : 15 August 2013 23:40:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,477 Location: Australia		It's always big news when someone stuffs up a very expensive job.. Personally, I think that it would be a great tourist tale if they can leave the error in place.. Edited by user 16 August 2013 05:12:40(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified
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xxup		#5 Posted : 15 August 2013 23:43:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,477 Location: Australia		Originally Posted by: H0 ..In Germany they want to dig tunnels. And estimated costs double before they even get started. That's also more interesting. Same problem down here.. But they then double the traffic counts to justify the project and then wonder why the toll operator goes broke within 12 months..
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petestra		#6 Posted : 15 August 2013 23:48:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 5,843 Location: Leesburg,VA.USA		Mama Mia, what-a mistake-a to make-a ! Thanks for the story,Tom. Peter
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jvuye		#7 Posted : 16 August 2013 07:16:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,881 Location: South Western France		Originally Posted by: H0 .... In Switzerland they dig tunnels from both sides and meet in the middle - off by only few centimetres. ... Yes Tom, very nice, eg. the New Alptransit-Gotthard 57 km double bore tunnel is a marvel. They used GPS and laser , and started digging from multiple locations! But maybe that's because they learned it the hard way when they dug the Furka tunnel back in the 1970's... They had ignored the fact that the tunnel was situated at 1500 m above sea level and thus the arc covered by the tunnel would be substantially longer than at sea level. When they finally met , the total length of the tunnel was 3.6 m longer that calculated. but only 37 mm off-course! To their defense, they had also major geological "surprises" and the tunnel couldn't be dug in a straight line. Cheers
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Yumgui		#8 Posted : 16 August 2013 21:13:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,660 Location: Paris, France		Originally Posted by: H0 ... 60 cm off the route. 60 cm is not very much, but enough to cause problems... Great info ! I cannot believe that 60cm cannot be "caught up", just wondering about what distance of re-boring is necessary to "catch up" ... ? OK, so it costs more money, as all these major infrastructure jobs do ... proportionately, I bet it's a drop in the bucket, they ain't gonna stop now are they ?! Y
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petestra		#9 Posted : 16 August 2013 22:24:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 5,843 Location: Leesburg,VA.USA		I'm not a builder and never have been but I should think that a potential problem would be if the 60cm error leads the project onto land which has not been appropriated for the railway construction. I don't know how Israeli law works but I would imagine that could lead to a delay if this happened? Hope it all turns out well! Peter
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Yumgui		#10 Posted : 16 August 2013 22:34:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,660 Location: Paris, France		Originally Posted by: petestra ... a potential problem would be if the 60cm error leads the project onto land which has not been appropriated for the railway construction. I don't know how Israeli law works but I would imagine that could lead to a delay if this happened? ... Hah Peter, From the recent past, I think this is less of an administrative problem ... than it remains a purely technical one above all, imho ... ^^ Y
		If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out ! Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Webmaster		#11 Posted : 16 August 2013 22:35:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,162		Quite interesting - the "City Tunnel" in Malmoe, Sweden, was finished both before the deadline and also below budget... http://en.wikipedia.org/..._Tunnel_%28Malm%C3%B6%29
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Yumgui		#12 Posted : 16 August 2013 22:38:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,660 Location: Paris, France		Originally Posted by: Webmaster Quite interesting - the "City Tunnel" in Malmoe, Sweden, was finished both before the deadline and also below budget... Swedes move faster than most, OK, because they spend more time at the pub ... ^^ Y
		If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out ! Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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DigitalNZ		#13 Posted : 16 August 2013 22:38:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 233 Location: Masterton, New Zealand		Originally Posted by: petestra Mama Mia, what-a mistake-a to make-a ! Thanks for the story,Tom. Peter

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Western Pacific		#14 Posted : 16 August 2013 23:39:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 841 Location: Lidingö, Sweden		Originally Posted by: Yumgui Originally Posted by: Webmaster Quite interesting - the "City Tunnel" in Malmoe, Sweden, was finished both before the deadline and also below budget... Swedes move faster than most, OK, because they spend more time at the pub ... ^^ Y Not all tunnels in Sweden are on time or below budget. Hallandsås tunnel is a project which originally was planned to be ready in 1995. One of the two tunnels has been drilled - the other has a bit over 200 metres to go. (Perhaps some people spent too much time in a pub instead of studying geological studies etc. in this case).

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petestra		#15 Posted : 17 August 2013 00:00:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 5,843 Location: Leesburg,VA.USA		Thanks Daniell, That's where I got that line from as you probably knew. I love British comedies. Peter
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Webmaster		#16 Posted : 17 August 2013 00:14:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,162		Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Not all tunnels in Sweden are on time or below budget. Hallandsås tunnel is a project which originally was planned to be ready in 1995. One of the two tunnels has been drilled - the other has a bit over 200 metres to go. (Perhaps some people spent too much time in a pub instead of studying geological studies etc. in this case). This is a sad project indeed, instead of knowing the challenges - the procurators went for the cheapest option.... Those "business economists" again... They even tried to seal water leaks with Rhoca-Gil instead of having proper lining many years ago... A very good example of how things can go wrong if you don't do your homework properly and let economists instead of engineers decide on what project offer to accept...
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