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Offline Wildrose-Wally  
#1 Posted : 10 August 2013 22:58:35(UTC)
Wildrose-Wally

Canada   
Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 528
Location: Sunny Southern Alberta
I was in Holland last week, on the train from Utrecht to Amsterdam. When we were close to our stop, I saw a glimpse of a train I recognized. It was the old TEE train that went to Canada and came back. The next day I took a video when we went by there again, and here are some of the shots:

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Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 11 August 2013 00:20:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,774
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks for those pics, Walter.

Pity about the graffiti...ThumbDown
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline AshleyH  
#3 Posted : 11 August 2013 09:09:48(UTC)
AshleyH

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 683
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
Agreed. It is a shame to see this old timer in such condition.
She deserves to be in a museum nicely restored.

No power cars though, do any survive?
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Offline kweekalot  
#4 Posted : 11 August 2013 11:08:11(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
Hi Walter,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your pics with us. ThumpUp

The DE IV is owned by the "Stichting Trans Europe Express Nederland" (stichting = foundation) and is temporarily parked at the Technical Center of NedTrain in Amsterdam Watergraafsmeer.
Despite fences and camera surveillance the train is in February 2013 smeared with graffiti, but this will be soon professional removed
The intention is to build a replica of the motorcar and let the DE IV run as a museum train.

Marco
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Offline NS1200  
#5 Posted : 11 August 2013 12:16:39(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
The former RAm TEE diesel set is parked there for years,nothing much seems to happen really.
To me it seems the foundation has run out of money.
The motor cars have all been scrapped,building of a working replica will be very costly.
At some stage i read intention was to use a motorised NS 1200 electric loco wheelset for the purpose.

Graffiti: everything you leave out in the open in Holland will sooner or later be contaminated with graffiti.
Buildings,houses,bridges,trains,nothing is safe for graffiti sprayers.
Even brandnew trains are covered with artworks.
Only very occasionally are these criminals caught in the act.
In my humble opinion all this graffiti displays the state our society is in,social control is gone,parents are not telling their children what is right or wrong,there is no efficient law enforcement to punish criminals who cannot keep their hands off stuff which is not theirs.
A shame really.

Just tried to contact the foundation by e-mail,no luck.
Last message on their website is dated 26th February 2013,does not look good to me.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline kweekalot  
#6 Posted : 11 August 2013 12:53:47(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Last message on their website is dated 26th February 2013,does not look good to me.


No, Last message was 24 March 2013, they update the site only 2 or 3 times a year, no need to worry, the foundation has several wealthy sponsors.
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Offline Wildrose-Wally  
#7 Posted : 11 August 2013 13:05:21(UTC)
Wildrose-Wally

Canada   
Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 528
Location: Sunny Southern Alberta
From what I know, it is not that they have run out of money, their problem is that they don't have a good place to park the train so they can work on it.

Anybody have a large train shed they can borrow?
Offline NS1200  
#8 Posted : 11 August 2013 16:34:15(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by: walter.mulder.7 Go to Quoted Post
From what I know, it is not that they have run out of money, their problem is that they don't have a good place to park the train so they can work on it.

Anybody have a large train shed they can borrow?


The train is there for a long time already,a prey for the elements.
If there would have been money,it would have been restored a long time ago.
If people step into projects like these many times emotions win over brains.
Someone could have realised that storage was required when they bought it,not so apparently.
What is your source of information if i may ask?
Their website seems to be dead.
Train sheds do not come for free,SSN in Rotterdam had to built one for their coaches,and that costed a lot of money,and proper sponsorship.

In Rotterdam a group of ex sailors bought the oceanliner SS Rotterdam,she sailed over the Atlantic to the USA in the sixties.
The restoration was extremely costly and caused even a political debate in our parliament.
The costs will probably never be recovered fully.
Once again emotions versus brains.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline petestra  
#9 Posted : 11 August 2013 16:56:09(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,731
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Thanks for those photos, Walter. Sad to see a great old unwanted train now. I'm

happy I can still enjoy my 3070 set, only without the ugly graffiti. Cheers,PeterSmile
Offline NS1200  
#10 Posted : 11 August 2013 17:06:35(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
From the pictures taken it can be seen that the coaches stored near Amsterdam were repainted into TEE colors already,in vain i would say.
The original sets were painted into Ontario colors before being shipped out to Canada in the seventies.
The Amsterdam set came back in Ontario colors and was repainted into TEE colors,as can be seen.
Graffiti has done its job.
As long as you keep the train outside,a new paintjob serves no purpose whatsoever.
The yellow Plan64 electric unit has undergone the same faith,as can be seen.
In the background some series 1700 electric loco's with added paintwork.
Hardy any single locomotive in Holland is without graffiti.
Suppose you would buy a classic sportcar for restoration,would you leave it outside at the streetside?

The restoration of the SS Rotterdam costed over 240 million Euro,more than 10 times the estimated amount.
The money was mainly borrowed from a Rotterdam based building society,who should have known better.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline NS1200  
#11 Posted : 11 August 2013 19:36:13(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Last message on their website is dated 26th February 2013,does not look good to me.


No, Last message was 24 March 2013, they update the site only 2 or 3 times a year, no need to worry, the foundation has several wealthy sponsors.


Well,that does not seem to bring any progress to the train,it would seem.
The RAm is there for some two years already.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline kariosls37  
#12 Posted : 11 August 2013 21:18:05(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
The problem with these projects is often not so much the money, but the manpower. If you know where to look, you can find the money. Although many railfans will be supportive of the project, the people that can actually be stuffed to go out there and do something useful are very rare indeed.

From experience, I can tell you that sometimes you can seem to work for ages on something, and it will still look the same. I have been turning pins, bushes and collars for the overhaul of a Diesel loco for the last three weeks. Only if you point it out you can tell, but someone who doesnn't know won't know any better than that they were the pins that the loco was built with. Once I finish the bushes and they are pressed in, the brake rigging can go in which will be another milestone, but because the brakes sit inside and under the frame you will still have to look for them to notice them. The effort of three people for two months of weekends will be close to unnoticable. Until you have to use the brakes that is.

The only real way to find what is happening to the trainset is to talk to people who work on the trainset. It can be all too frustrating for volunteers to be told how to do their jobs by people who in practice will never bother to offer a hand to help.

Cheers,

Rick
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Offline NS1200  
#13 Posted : 12 August 2013 12:41:29(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Rick,

It does not have to be a job for volunteers only.
When enthousiasts bring in old stuff they like and wish to restore that does not mean to say other people have to drop everything and rush to volunteer.
What I am trying to say is that when people take on a project like buying a written off TEE RAm the same people should be aware of the longterm complications.
Often this is not the case.
With proper funding the TEE RAm would have been running in tiptop condition,but is now standing idle for over two years which will certainly not contribute to its overall condition.

DB had the steamer 01 150 restored,as far as I know that was not a volunteers job,DB spent Euro 1,000.000.- on her,Euro 500,000.- was recovered from private sponsors,the net costs as such was Euro 500,000.- for DB.
Union Pacific will restore the Big Boy 4014,surely that will cost a lot money and surely they will pay the people working on it.
So why should restoring a TEE RAm be a volunteers job?

When SS Rotterdam was saved from the breakers nobody did see it as a voluteers job to have the vessel restored,because restoring a vessel of this size requires professional skills and equipment.
The initial costs were estimated at Euro 24 million,already a figure which I would call totally inresponsible.
When asbestos was found this complicated the whole project substantially and caused the costs to escalate to Euro 240 million,and that for an old ship.
In comparison,the latest Maersk 18,800 TEU containervessel costed USD 190 million.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 12 August 2013 13:35:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,288
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
DB had the steamer 01 150 restored,as far as I know that was not a volunteers job,DB spent Euro 1,000.000.- on her,Euro 500,000.- was recovered from private sponsors,the net costs as such was Euro 500,000.- for DB.
Well - DB was willing to pay for a non-operational restoration only (to have the loco for display at the museum). It was a volunteer's job to bring the extra money to get her running again.
The restoration work was done by professionals, but without the fund-raising of a volunteer (he said he spent four and a half years writing letters to raise funds) she would not be running again.

The DE IV had to be bought to save them, otherwise they would have been scraped. Fund-raising can take years - and hopefully the DE IV were not bought in vain.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline NS1200  
#15 Posted : 12 August 2013 20:49:04(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
DB had the steamer 01 150 restored,as far as I know that was not a volunteers job,DB spent Euro 1,000.000.- on her,Euro 500,000.- was recovered from private sponsors,the net costs as such was Euro 500,000.- for DB.
Well - DB was willing to pay for a non-operational restoration only (to have the loco for display at the museum). It was a volunteer's job to bring the extra money to get her running again.
The restoration work was done by professionals, but without the fund-raising of a volunteer (he said he spent four and a half years writing letters to raise funds) she would not be running again.

The DE IV had to be bought to save them, otherwise they would have been scraped. Fund-raising can take years - and hopefully the DE IV were not bought in vain.


Still it costed DB a sum of Euro 500,000.- from their own pocket,meaning from the pocket of the German tax payers.
It would be an illusion to think that the TEE RAm set can be restored by goodwilling private individuals only.
A full restoration needs professional craftmenship,and the money to go with it.
Building a new motorcar from scrap must cost a fortune,and where to find the engines?
This is just a bit more than a simple paintjob to me.

The SSN in Rotterdam have three operational steamloco's for use on the mainline,plus a number of coaches for the mainline.
This limited amount of equipment is soaking up all human and financial resources.
In the current economic crisis companies are not waiting in line to sponsor with huge amounts of money.
Also the general public are keeping a tight grip on their money.
As far as i know,our railways NS have not offered to sponsor.
Alltogether a difficult situation for a steamclub.

It would be a shame if the TEE RAm set could not be restored but some goals are simply set too high.
Our national pride is steamloco 3737,nicknamed Jumbo.
She is no longer in a running condition,and there is no money to fix her.
Plenty of examples to be found in the same category.

Apart from anything else,i have not been able to contact the TEE club via their website which looks like a dead duck to me.
So if you guys have better information on the project please feel free to share it on the forum.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline kweekalot  
#16 Posted : 12 August 2013 23:02:17(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
Paul,

I would appreciate it if you stop bashing the TEE foundation.
You make all sorts of (negative) assumptions without knowledge of the real situation.
You should know Holland is in the middle of the Summer holidays, you can not expect that the foundation respond to your email within 24 hours.

Marco
Offline NS1200  
#17 Posted : 13 August 2013 06:52:59(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Paul,

I would appreciate it if you stop bashing the TEE foundation.
You make all sorts of (negative) assumptions without knowledge of the real situation.
You should know Holland is in the middle of the Summer holidays, you can not expect that the foundation respond to your email within 24 hours.

Marco


Marco,

Have YOU tried to contact them?
How do you opine their website looks like?
What is your impression when you see the minimal contents of their website?

This has nothing to do with bashing,just reporting what i see with my own eyes,and what others can see with their own eyes.

Are YOU having knowledge of the real situation?
If yes,what is keeping you from sharing that information on the forum????

Fact is that the train is standing idle for two years and is not moving an inch,and that is a fact.
I hope you have read my entries above when it comes to financing projects like these.

And Marco,as you very well know,you and i are living in a country where one is allowed to have an opinion about any given subject,nothing to do with bashing at all.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline jvuye  
#18 Posted : 13 August 2013 07:27:26(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Hi Guys!


I too would love to see that train running on the rails again!

It was there as a kid and frankly it made heads turn in the late 1950's anytime you'd see it entering the station at Brussels North!

Assuming there is enough money on hand (more about that later) , there is enough coach equipment to rebuild to at least a cosmetically correct set.

The problem is the power unit.

One could try to reproduce the original Werkspoor, but I doubt it would be a viable alternative.
So why not doing like Union Pacifis did with the restoration of their E9s Diesels, replacing the old obsolete 1567 EMD motors by the modern ones used in their SD 40 road switcher?

It would become a bodywork job around an existing (more modern) diesel loco. The trick would be the nose job..but there is a second pilot car, right?
I could see a nice "nip-and-tuck" job!Cool
That would also simplify resolution of current regulation like ECTS signalling , environmental issues, etc.

Now, how to get the money?Confused

You all know that "Nostalgia Trips" is all the rage these days.
Proof is the enduring success of the VSOE , which is practically fully booked years in advance...and has been running for well over 25 years now.
We rode it back in 2011, and the 17 coaches long thing was **packed**! (with people paying over €2000 each for a Paris to Venice run !!!)

I bet you that coordinating a restored Ram/DE TEE set schedule as a feeder to the VSOE circulation would be a big success.

I could imagine a return of the "Oiseau Bleu" , coming from Amsterdam, Antwerp and Brussels, connecting with the VSOE in Paris.

And while the VSOE is having its extra runs to Istambul and the like, one could conceivably re-create the Edelweiss and the Bavaria (Amsterdam-Zürich- München and return)

I could see lots of people boarding a "Ile de France" TEE in Amsterdam, and later catch the Orient Express in Paris, bound to Venice.

Wouldn't that be cool??

Now we just need to convince Orient Express to jump in! BigGrin

(Otherwise I will chip in if I ever win enough money on the Euromillion!! LOL LOL )

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 13 August 2013 07:47:37(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,288
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
And Marco,as you very well know,you and i are living in a country where one is allowed to have an opinion about any given subject,nothing to do with bashing at all.
Freedom of thought and freedom of speech are fundamental rights.
When one repeats his/her opinion again and again it may appear as bashing or others may get bored.

There are phrases that make it clear that an opinion is expressed: "IMO", "IMHO", "IMVHO", "I think", "it looks", "methinks", "it appears" and many others more.
Some people often express their opinions in a way that makes them look like facts.

Re website: there are only a few posts made this year. The site looks OK to me and contains useful information. Looks like the spare time project of an amateur.
The site www.fyra.nl also looks like an amateur's spare time project and contains very little useful information. I wouldn't judge a book by the cover or an organization only by its website.

A non-profit organization looking for sponsors should post news more often IMO.

Deutsche Bahn started the restoration of a complete VT 11.5 train. A few coaches were already finished when they blew the whole project off. That's a way of burning money. Even big organizations do not always have master plans that work, even big organizations may cancel projects.

I hope in the end it was not in vain to have the DE IV coaches shipped to the Netherlands and have them painted in TEE colours again.

In Germany the remains of the BR 403/404 trains have been moved to a new place to see if they are worth restoration. Time will tell if that leads to something.

I have no inside information about the TEE foundation in question (but still I'm allowed to have an opinion and to express it).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kariosls37  
#20 Posted : 13 August 2013 08:36:42(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
You've touched an interesting point Paul, the restoration of rolling stock by paid staff.

I know a well known museum here with a short railway line. It recieves a lot of funding from the council(=gemeente) and has 2 paid fulltime staff in the mechanical workshops plus a part-time manager. In brief, a certain locomotive is under restoration to working order. What the paid staff are doing I don't know, but that loco was going to be done in March this year. The loco is still not done. And the other three locomotives are not that great either. Yes, they work but on one the valve timing is terrible, and has been for about half a decade. And setting valves is not that complicated. The volunteers at the place I work have manged to keep two locomotives of more than twice the weight in operating condition as well as comprehensively overhaul another steam loco's mechanical bits with less than a dozen regular volunteers in the mechanical workshops doing weekends and wednesdays.

Of course this example is at the far end of the scale and there will be better paid restoration forces out there, but they are hard to find, and will really eat into a group's funds. One must remember that a group like the TEE group is not alone. There are numerous other groups competing for the exactly same money as the TEE group. Examples can range from the likes of SGB to "Stichting de locomotor", the former operating a heritage railway that has found and repatriated an incredible amount of unique and historically significant Dutch carriages and vans from inside of Holland and former East Bloc countries. The latter restores and takes care of a number of small shunting locomotives.

Having seen the quality of some volunteer work, I have no doubt that volunteers of the TEE group are perfectly capable of restoring the set to full functionality. I realise that volunteering is not everyone's cup of tea, put please don't try to tell these people how to do their jobs. Volunteer work is different to paid work. these people have time on their side. The body is protected from the elements (The railcar is designed to stay outdoors, and has done that for most of it's life) and work can be done to other, invisible parts of the cars at leisure.

On the performance of heritage groups, I have this to say.

These groups know what they are doing, and almost all, especially the SGB have some or a large amount of rolling stock that may take years before they can even start restoration. A good example that bear similarities to the TEE set in question is the Diesel loco NS 2412. A few induviduals belonging to the heritage railway VSM had come up with the plan to save this loco from France, being one of the last, if not the last example of that class that carried the origional blue livery, which later class members did not have. After a lot of time effort and money they managed to get the loco safely to the VSM, which already has two locos of the same class. There is no operational need for another loco. Therefore, the locomotive was not restored to operating condition. However, the VSM has doen a marvellous job of returnig the loco to it's origional blue colour scheme. Should the need ever arrive, the loco's operating parts can be overhauled to return the loco to service. In the meantime it is a good static exhibit of a now unique loco.

I cannot imagine the "Stichting TEE" has gone ahead on something they have not properly planned. Getting such a size train secured and repatriated is no easy task, and I think that if they can manage that, they should be able to manage a thorough restoration. However good things take time, and I would not be surprised if it will take another decade before the railcar, with or witout it's own motive power will be able to run again. However, the trainset has been secured, people are looking after it, even though they had a setback because of some vandals the prospects of the trainset look better now than any time after their withdrawal.

You can compare it with the following situation: You are an art collector. You find out someone has a Rembrandt, and he is about to throw it into a fire because he or no-one else wants it. You have just enough money to buy the painting, but it is in poor shape and needs a lot of money spent on it that you don't have right now before it will look good. What do you do?
do you condemmn this painting to be burnt? or do you buy it, store it somewhere safe so that you can save up enough money to pay for it's restoration, so that everyone will be able to enjoy the painting once restored?
Stichting TEE is choosing for the latter, and I say good on them for that.

In my opinion, I think it is very naive to say that because the trainset has not visually changed in two years that the group is not doing their job well. I have been an active volunteer on a heritage railway for a few years, so I have an idea how much time and effort it takes to comprehensively overhaul something. Using your criterion, the overhaul of Ww 480, a locomotive I have done a lot of work to is a failure. Yes, it has been operating after four years, and performs great. However, because it has stood in the same spot for about 2 1/2 years without it's driving wheels means the restoration has failed and we were doing a poor job. The main reason for doing such a "poor" job was because we were re-turning crankpins on the wheels, reonditioning bearings, re-tyring wheels, overhauling bearings and much more. All of this work is invisible to an outside person.

Having been born there, and my interest in heritage railways means I take a fair bit of interest in Dutch heritage groups. While I haven't heard much about the group, the glances I have seen on the net leave me with the impresssion that the group is not doing a poor job.

This veritable essay can be simply summed up by an old Dutch proverb: "schoenmaker, blijf bij je leest". For those non-Dutch speakers, it roughly translates to "don't make comments on something which you know very little about".

Cheers,
Rick
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Offline NS1200  
#21 Posted : 13 August 2013 11:08:55(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Rick,

Your comments about a well known Dutch proverb I take as a personal insult!
In short: What a load of crap!
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline kweekalot  
#22 Posted : 13 August 2013 11:13:36(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
Dear Paul,

You make the TEE foundation and volunteers look like complete fools - with a poor / dead website - with no funds- not knowing what they are doing or what kind of job they have started.

You say these negative things over and over again. For me that is bashing.

The TEE foundation and volunteers can't defend themselves, because they are not aware of all the negative crap you poured out on them.

As a Dutchman and moderator on this forum I don't like that. Angry

Marco
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Offline Wildrose-Wally  
#23 Posted : 14 August 2013 00:53:30(UTC)
Wildrose-Wally

Canada   
Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 528
Location: Sunny Southern Alberta
Even though the process is slow, it has not stopped. After actively working on the train for a few years, they had to stop because they lost the place where they were working on it. The train moved and where it is now they can no longer work on the train itself. However, they do have a lot of spare parts for which they now have the time to clean, catalogue and put on the "shelf", so to speak

This info I gathered mainly from the website of de "stichting", I have followed their reports for many years now. I also scour the internet for other info, pictures, etc. on this train. I became very interested when I, a Dutch-Canadian, learned a Dutch train had been in service in Canada.

Now on to something else. To complete the train, a new locomotive has to be built. They might have a few thing they can use, like a generator, but basically it has to be built from scratch. They can't even use the extra "Stuurrijtuig" for the new engine. I hope somebody saved the blueprints from 60 years ago.

However, since they have to built it new, it will never be authentic, no matter how precise they built it. More authentic would be an engine built from that "Stuurrijtuig", but run it on electricity instead of diesel. At least it will be from the original train, although heavily modified to current use. They also can put in all the newest safety features if they go this route. And it will still match the rest of the train in looks.

And now some of the Northlander pictures I have gathered from all over the internet:

Once upon a time, Holland and Switzerland bought a train together.
Actually, Holland bought 3 and Switzerland bought 2, the engines were made in Holland and the coaches in Switzerland.
And with those trains they operated a service between Amsterdam and Zurich.

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One of the trains crashed in Germany and was scrapped.
These trains were diesel trains, and in time as the tracks in Europe were electrified, they became obsolete.
So four trains were sold to Canada, where they operated as the Ontario Northlander.

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Shortly after arriving in Canada, the numbers on the locs were changed, it seems CN already had engines with those numbers.

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These were nice trains, but the engines could not stand up to the Canadian winters. The Dutch motorcoaches were scrapped and replaced by the North American FP7Am.

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UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

One of the trains crashed in Canada, from the leftover cars, five went back to Holland were they are being restored to full former glory in the original colours.

Edited by user 24 August 2013 07:34:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline mike c  
#24 Posted : 14 August 2013 02:43:44(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,228
Location: Montreal, QC
The coaches were actually returned to Switzerland, but the association could not amass the funds required to do the restoration, so the coaches were stored in Germany, where a fire almost destroyed them. They finally ended up in the possession of the Dutch group, which has partially restored a few more coaches and plan to complete the task.

It was actually nice to see that they have managed to paint a few more coaches in the TEE colours. The last time I saw photos of the train, only one coach and one end of one of the pilot coaches had been repainted, so work is being done, albeit at a very slow pace, and it seems, with a setback, as the graffiti will have to be removed.

Regarding the possibility of using one of the pilot coaches to make a new power unit, it is possible that they could use the nose and cab unit, but the rest of the power unit would have to be built from scratch.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 29 January 2014 07:16:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline kariosls37  
#25 Posted : 14 August 2013 11:03:03(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
I have been looking on the net a bit and managed to find out why so little appears to be happening to the trainset.

The location the trainset is currently parked in is in the middle of a working yard, and as such, people are not allowed to come near to the trainset, presumably for health and safety reasons.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to find a place to store 5 cars. It may well be the case that things will move much more quickly once a more suitable home for the trainset is found.

Cheers,
Rick
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Offline NS1200  
#26 Posted : 24 August 2013 06:23:42(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Dear Paul,

You make the TEE foundation and volunteers look like complete fools - with a poor / dead website - with no funds- not knowing what they are doing or what kind of job they have started.

You say these negative things over and over again. For me that is bashing.

The TEE foundation and volunteers can't defend themselves, because they are not aware of all the negative crap you poured out on them.

As a Dutchman and moderator on this forum I don't like that. Angry

Marco


Marco,

I will write you a PM on this one!

Paul.

Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline kweekalot  
#27 Posted : 24 August 2013 10:07:37(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Dear Paul,

You make the TEE foundation and volunteers look like complete fools - with a poor / dead website - with no funds- not knowing what they are doing or what kind of job they have started.

You say these negative things over and over again. For me that is bashing.

The TEE foundation and volunteers can't defend themselves, because they are not aware of all the negative crap you poured out on them.

As a Dutchman and moderator on this forum I don't like that. Angry

Marco


Marco,

I will write you a PM on this one!

Paul.



Please don't bother.
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Offline NS1200  
#28 Posted : 24 August 2013 11:41:08(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Kweekalot,

If that is how you want to play it,fine with me.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline kweekalot  
#29 Posted : 22 October 2013 14:34:04(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
On 23 September 2013 the site of the TEE foundation was updated with a 40 minutes movie. LINK
So the site is definitely not dead (as some have claimed earlier).
Unfortunately the movie is only Dutch spoken, but I will try to provide an English subtitle in the next month or so.

Marco
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Offline jvuye  
#30 Posted : 22 October 2013 16:40:58(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
On 23 September 2013 the site of the TEE foundation was updated with a 40 minutes movie. LINK
So the site is definitely not dead (as some have claimed earlier).
Unfortunately the movie is only Dutch spoken, but I will try to provide an English subtitle in the next month or so.

Marco


Hi marco
Just looked at this program.
Great story on the serie 1200 and the TEE.
One can see the pride of all those involved, including the restaurant car waitress and the Purchase dept lady!
The whole story of the demise of Werkspoor is a sad story, even though, with retrospect, one could say they got a bit blind sighted with that big order from Argentina that book their capacity solid for years....during which the NS started to look outside NL for equipment like in France for locos and Germany for coaches!
The proverbial story of "All the eggs in the same basket" isn't it?

Alas, the real victims are always the workers...

And the finalscene with the old 1200's running past the dead Fyras...priceless.Sneaky
Because it is a sad story, I won't say "I enjoyed it", but I definitely found it very interesting to learn a lot more of the story of the Werkspoor company.
Thanks a lot for sharing the link.
Groetjes
Jacques

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline kweekalot  
#31 Posted : 31 December 2013 17:53:46(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
Hi,

I have ripped a short Dutch movie from the website of the Dutch Television, about the TEE RAm DE4 and the Dutch TEE foundation, and I made English subtitles for it and uploaded it to YouTube, ​​so now everyone can watch it.

The movie was broadcasted in August 2007 and tells the story of the TEE RAm DE4, told by the TEE staff at that time.

Creating and adding the subtitles took me almost two days, but I wanted to finished this project before the end of the year.

Marco



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Offline Wildrose-Wally  
#32 Posted : 01 January 2014 08:00:46(UTC)
Wildrose-Wally

Canada   
Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 528
Location: Sunny Southern Alberta


Beleidsvisie
Stichting TEE-Nederland
2014-2016



Woord vooraf

Het symbool van de naoorlogse wederopbouw van de Europe trein verkeer.
In 2006 haalde de Stichting TEE-Nederland van de vier overgebleven treinstellen, de vijf rijtuigen na een afwezigheid van meer dan 30 jaar terug naar Nederland. Niet wetende dat de crises al onderweg was en het project van restauratie grote stagnatie zou ondervinden.
2007 vierden wij dat 50 jarig geleden de TEE dienst gestart werd en daarmee de gezichtsbepalende trein in 1957 zijn in trede deed. De DE IV beter bekend als de DE 1001- 1003 / Ram 501 – 502.
2013
Het jaar loopt op zijn einde, de vergevorderde plannen voor het Transport Museum in Lelystad geven zicht op de mogelijkheid om in 2014 te starten met verdere plannen tot de uiteindelijke restauratie van de Trein.
Voor de komende twee jaar zullen wij deze begrenzen tot het stallen, het conserveren door middel van het schilderen in de originele kleuren en de planmatige voorbereiding tot restauratie van de stuurstand-rijtuig.
Hiervoor hebben wij alle medewerking nodig van het bedrijfsleven, gemeente, provincie, fondsen en vrijwilligers.
Als de plannen van het Transport Museum in Lelystad goed doorzetten kunnen wij in de herfst 2014 een vier jaren plan maken die ook op daadwerkelijke restauratie van de stuurstand-rijtuig en mogelijk ook dan de twee andere rijtuigen.

Missie

De missie van de Stichting TEE-Nederland is kort maar krachtig:
De DE IV (DE100x/ Ram50x) in zijn oorspronkelijke staat als museum trein te behouden.

Voor wie en waarvoor?

Voor wie eigenlijk wil de Stichting TEE-Nederland dit doen? Het behouden van de trein in zijn oorspronkelijke staat dus inclusief de replica van de motorwagen is voor het nageslacht zowel in Nederland, Europa als mede Canada.
Waarvoor wil de Stichting TEE-Nederland dit doen?
De DE IV was is de naoorlogse wederopbouw van de nationale en nog meer internationale spoorweg verbindingen de toen destijdse het moderne vervoersmiddel in de snelgroeiende vervoersmarkt waarbij het vliegtuig snel terrein won. Met zijn comfortabele en toen uiterst moderne trein was het symbool van de vooruitgang en nu dus het mobiele symbool van het toenmalige industriële kunnen. En nu een mobiel monument van die tijd.


Droom, wensen en de werkelijkheid

Kernopgaven 2014-2016

Op een vaste blik en dus een stip op de horizon te plaatsen zijn er verschillende uitgangspunten die onze aandacht hebben en tot actie punten verheven zijn.

Bedrijfsvoering

Voor de restauratie van de trein, zijn we van zoveel verschillende en unieke factoren afhankelijk dat dit niet goed door een stichting alleen gedragen kan worden. Hiervoor wordt samenwerking gezocht en gevonden door als collectie houder samen te werken met een museum is dit geval het transportmuseum in Lelystad.

Huisvesting

Door de samen werking met de stichting Transport museum Lelystad ontstaat een synergie waarbij de restauratie, samen met educatie en opleidingen een optimale situatie geschapen kan worden.

Organisatie

Daar er in samenwerking met het museum gekozen is voor gestructureerde werkplaatsen, autonome opleiding instituten en een zelfstandig opererende certificering afdeling.
Om deze reden zal de organisatie plat en uit vrijwilligers bestaan.

Financiën

Ambitie: in 2016 goede afspraken gemaakt te hebben met het bedrijfsleven, fondsen en overheden dat een substantieel deel van de benodigde financiële middelen binnen komen welke later ook nog uit de inkomsten van het museum aan gevuld kan worden ( restauratie gelden)

Publiek

Een van de eisen van de fondsen is dat de trein publiek toegankelijk moet zijn. Juist door samen werking met het Transport museum in Lelystad kan het publiek getuigen zijn van de vorderingen van de restauratie.
Ambitie: 2016 trein publiek toegankelijk . in 2018 ook in de werkplaatsen.

Educatie

Binnen het concept van het Transport museum zal zowel de opleidingen als mede de educatie ondersteund worden.

Registatie

Alle in bezit zijnde rijtuigen zullen de komende jaren van het internationale registratie voorzien moeten worden. Deze stappen zullen starten in 2014.

Onderzoek

De afgelopen jaren is al veel onder zoek gedaan naar de volgende zaken;
a. Personeel welke dienst hebben gedaan op deze trein tijdens de TEE diensten.
b. Bedrijven en personen die aan deze treinen gewerkt hebben.
c. Welke onderhoud en herstellingen aan deze trein is gedaan.
d. Welke aanpassingen voor de Canadese periode gepleegd zijn.
Al deze onderzoeken lopen nog en zullen in de komende periode nog door gaan.

Verrijking

Het ligt in de lijn van de verwachtingen dat de stichting de komende periode opzoek zal gaan naar delen van bijvoorbeeld bestek servies kookgerei en vele andere zaken die direct verbandhouden met deze TEE trein. Hiervoor zal in 2014 een actieplan moeten worden opgesteld en bemand met bekwame vrijwilligers.

Restauratie

De uiteindelijke restauratie zal jaren duren en zal hiervoor de hulp nodig hebben van het bedrijfsleven, onderwijs en fondsen. Maar ook donateurs en vrijwilligers zijn zeer belangrijk in dit proces.

Beleidsvisie Stichting TEE Nederland 2014-2016

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Offline Wildrose-Wally  
#33 Posted : 01 January 2014 08:03:39(UTC)
Wildrose-Wally

Canada   
Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 528
Location: Sunny Southern Alberta
(Google Translation)

Policy Vision
Foundation TEE Netherlands
2014-2016



Foreword

The symbol of post-war reconstruction of Europe train traffic .
In 2006, the Foundation TEE Netherlands took the four remaining trains , the five cars after an absence of more than 30 years back to the Netherlands . Not knowing that the crisis was already underway and the project of restoration would encounter . Huge stagnation
2007 we celebrated the 50th anniversary since the TEE service was started and thus the face defining train in 1957 did in step. The DE IV better known as THE 1001 - 1003 / Ram 501-502 .
2013
The year is nearing its end , the advanced plans for the Transport Museum in Lelystad providing insight into the ability to start with further plans for the eventual restoration of the train in 2014.
For the next two years we will limit it to the stables , preserving through the painting in the original colors and the planned preparation to restore the helm carriage.
For this we need the business, municipality, province , funds and volunteer their full cooperation.
If the plans of the Transport Museum in Lelystad, well , we can continue in the fall 2014 to create a four-year plan that also actual restoration of the helm , coach and possibly the other two cars.

mission

The mission of the Foundation TEE Netherlands is short but powerful :
The DE IV ( DE100x / Ram50x ) in its original state as a museum to preserve train.

For whom and for what?

Who really wants the Foundation TEE Netherlands do this? Maintaining the train in its original state so including the replica of the railcar is for posterity in the Netherlands, Europe and Canada co .
Which wants the Foundation TEE Netherlands do this?
The DE IV was the postwar reconstruction of the national and international rail connections even more when the destijdse modern transportation in the rapidly growing transport market where the aircraft rapidly gained ground . With its comfortable and then ultramodern train symbol of progress was and now the mobile symbol of the former industrial can . And now a mobile monument of that time .


Dreams , wishes and reality

Key Figures 2014-2016

On a fixed gaze and thus to place a dot on the horizon , there are several principles that our attention and elevated to action points .

operational

For the restoration of the train , we have so many different and unique factors affect that this can not be accomplished. Supported by a foundation only For this cooperation is sought and found by collection holder as working with a museum together this case the transport museum in Lelystad .

housing

Through the cooperation with the Transport Museum Lelystad foundation synergy with the restoration , along with education and training can be . Created an optimal situation arises

organization

As chosen in collaboration with the museum is structured workshops , training institutes, autonomous and independent operating certification department .
For this reason, the organization will be flat and consist of volunteers.

finance

Ambition : 2016 good agreements have with businesses , foundations and governments that a substantial portion of the financial resources that could still be coming in ( restoration funds ) and later from the income of the museum is filled

public

One of the requirements of the funds is that the train has to be publicly accessible. It is through collaboration with the Transport Museum in Lelystad, the public can witness the progress of the restoration.
Ambition : 2016 train public. in 2018, even in the workplace .

education

Within the concept of the Transport Museum both the training and the education will also be supported.

Regi Statieplaats

All projects owned vehicles will be the coming years. Provide the international registration These steps will start in 2014.

research

In recent years much research has been done under the following ;
a staff which have served on this train during TEE services .
b . Businesses and individuals who have worked on these trains .
c . The maintenance and repairs of this train is done .
d. What adjustments committed to the Canadian period .
All these investigations are still ongoing and will continue to go through in the coming period .

enrichment

It is in line with expectations that the foundation of the coming period will be to share , for example cutlery crockery looking cookware and many other things that are directly related to the TEE train. For this, in 2014 , an action plan should be prepared and staffed with skilled volunteers .

restoration

The final restoration will take years , and this will require the help of having the business, education and funds . But donors and volunteers are very important in this process .


Policy Vision Foundation TEE Netherlands 2014-2016
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Offline kweekalot  
#34 Posted : 28 January 2014 12:30:13(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
The TEE foundation is now also on Facebook: LINK
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Offline NS1200  
#35 Posted : 29 January 2014 17:07:30(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Story goes that the set would be moved to the Lelystad Museum of Transport.
On Internet i have not been able to locate that museum.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline kweekalot  
#36 Posted : 29 January 2014 17:36:45(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
Yes, as mentioned by Walter in posts #32 and #33 in this thread... Glare

The location of the new transport museum is the train depot in Lelystad-north. (Adress: Stichting Transport Museum, Beukenhof 3, 8212 EG Lelystad)
Different types of trains, trucks, cars and motorcycles are gong to be displayed in the museum, according to the plans it should be a huge tourist attraction.

Marco
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Offline NS1200  
#37 Posted : 30 January 2014 15:02:27(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Yes, as mentioned by Walter in posts #32 and #33 in this thread... Glare

The location of the new transport museum is the train depot in Lelystad-north. (Adress: Stichting Transport Museum, Beukenhof 3, 8212 EG Lelystad)
Different types of trains, trucks, cars and motorcycles are gong to be displayed in the museum, according to the plans it should be a huge tourist attraction.

Marco


No website?
And why using the sour smiley?
Why are people so sour about a simple question?
I would say:either answer the question or ignore it!

Edited by user 31 January 2014 10:07:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline kweekalot  
#38 Posted : 31 January 2014 18:46:32(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
Paul,

I have answered your question, I've even given the complete address of what you were looking for.
Still it is not good for you...Pffffffff. Glare

Marco
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Offline kweekalot  
#39 Posted : 31 January 2014 18:49:31(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,305
Location: Holland
Wow, many beautiful photos and old posters of the TEE can be seen on this website: LINK
Like this lovely promo drawing from 1957 that was used by the 'Werkspoor' factory.

Marco

UserPostedImage
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Offline Wildrose-Wally  
#40 Posted : 26 February 2014 02:16:41(UTC)
Wildrose-Wally

Canada   
Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 528
Location: Sunny Southern Alberta
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Offline Wildrose-Wally  
#41 Posted : 26 September 2014 03:33:16(UTC)
Wildrose-Wally

Canada   
Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 528
Location: Sunny Southern Alberta
Quote:

Samenwerking

25 september 2014

Kort geleden is er een samenwerkingsovereenkomst gesloten tussen de “Stichting Transportmuseum Lelystad”, een groot landelijk Ingenieursbureau en een grote bouw-/infra onderneming. Wat houdt dit in? Het Transportmuseum beoogt onderdak te bieden aan historisch transport over land en als zodanig kan de TEE hier mooi een plaatsje vinden.


Google translation:

Quote:

Cooperation

September 25, 2014

Recently there is a cooperation agreement between the "Transportation Museum Foundation Lelystad", a major national engineering and large construction / infrastructure company. What does this mean? The Transport Museum seeks shelter to historical land transportation and as such the TEE can be nice to find a place here.


http://www.stichtingtee.nl/nl/nieuws/samenwerking
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