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Offline sikardon  
#1 Posted : 13 July 2013 08:00:44(UTC)
sikardon

Indonesia   
Joined: 05/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 171
Dear Forum,

I just broke one leg of Inductor E516520 when I did maintenance on my loco motor, I move the inductor a little bit, and then... Crying, the leg was broken, so I go find electronic shop. From Märklin website, this spare part measured 3,9µH. Unfortunately, the shop don't have inductors with similar value. Instead he offer me this inductors, and said that it can be used as well. Well, if my eyes still correct, the color on the inductor body is yellow, violet, silver, and gold. I don't know about color value when I purchase it, and then I search on internet and found this very useful website http://www.electronics20...ctor-code-calculator.php

UserPostedImage

The inductor is only measured 0,47µH (again, if I'm not make mistake Blink). So my question, is it okay to install this inductor on my loco DCM motor?
On this matter, I only have steady hand, but very little brain on electronic Blushing, I can do soldering, but don't know the effect if I put lower or higher value of inductors. Feel free to provide electronic 101 class to me BigGrin. I have digital multimeter, but don't know if it can be used to measure inductors. I only know there is ohm meter, but this is for resistor and not inductor?

I can buy the inductors from ebay.de, or from any other online shop, but that will be my final option, as it will take very long time to reach me. So at this moment, I will stick to local electronic shop, and hopefully, will find the correct shop that provide correct inductors.

Many thanks before.

regards,
Sony

Edited by user 29 January 2014 14:37:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 13 July 2013 08:21:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,467
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Sony,

Blue or Violet? Probably it's indeed 0.47 µH.

The inductors (chokes) decouple the decoder from the sparks caused by the brushes. Some folks leave them away completely. If it works without chokes, then a much smaller value will also work.

I'd be cowardish, wouldn't take any risk and would try to get the correct value for the choke. I have a basic understanding of electrics and electronics, but I don't know what chokes do.

You don't mention which decoder the loco has. It's the decoder that has to deal with higher voltage spikes coming from the motor if the chokes have a smaller value or a left away. As I said before, this may work fine (but I wouldn't take any risk if it was my loco).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
User is suspended until 24/11/2846 07:19:16(UTC) Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 13 July 2013 08:41:35(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,778
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
.....but I don't know what chokes do.


As Tom infers in the first part of his post, they are used as interference suppressors, or as Wikipedia suggests "they are designed specifically for blocking higher-frequency alternating current (AC) in an electrical circuit, while allowing lower frequency or DC current to pass."

http://en.wikipedia.org/.../Choke_%28electronics%29

I think the choke value is 3.3 uH - they are available from Jaycar in New Zealand and Australia

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/...s=choke&form=KEYWORD

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=LF1516
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline sikardon  
#4 Posted : 13 July 2013 08:49:05(UTC)
sikardon

Indonesia   
Joined: 05/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Sony,

Blue or Violet? Probably it's indeed 0.47 µH.

The inductors (chokes) decouple the decoder from the sparks caused by the brushes. Some folks leave them away completely. If it works without chokes, then a much smaller value will also work.

I'd be cowardish, wouldn't take any risk and would try to get the correct value for the choke. I have a basic understanding of electrics and electronics, but I don't know what chokes do.

You don't mention which decoder the loco has. It's the decoder that has to deal with higher voltage spikes coming from the motor if the chokes have a smaller value or a left away. As I said before, this may work fine (but I wouldn't take any risk if it was my loco).


Hi Tom,

If it is blue, then it measured 0.46µH (again, if I'm not mistake). The decoder is mSD from 6096x series (not 21 pin series 6094x), it is one of my loco that I already converted with mSD. If I can get inductor with value near 3.9 µH, is it safe? BigGrin
I guess, higher value means safer, as chokes will block much higher-frequency alternating current into the decoder?

Well, 0.46/0.47 µH is too far from 3.9 µH, I will looking for another inductor with value around 3.9 µH then.

PS: the shop keeper told me that the inductor was 4,7 µH. Hmm, probably he did mistake... or do I?

Thanks again,
Sony
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 13 July 2013 09:02:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,467
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sikardon Go to Quoted Post
Hmm, probably he did mistake... or do I?
He did. The colour code should end with gold-gold or gold-silver. Silver-gold is too small by a factor of 10.

Maybe someone here has tested the mSD without chokes and shares his/her experience.

I looked at some "Märklin" chokes and to me they seem to have the rings "brown white gold silver", which would make them 1.9 µH. With a google search I found quotes for both values (3.9 µH and 1.9 µH).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
User is suspended until 24/11/2846 07:19:16(UTC) Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 13 July 2013 09:05:54(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,778
Location: New Zealand
I edited my fist post and put some links in it to 3.3uH chokes available in NZ and Oz.
Offline sikardon  
#7 Posted : 13 July 2013 10:27:19(UTC)
sikardon

Indonesia   
Joined: 05/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 171
Hi Tom, BigDaddy,

This is the broken inductor:

UserPostedImage

To me, if my eyes still correct, the color are red-white-gold-silver, and that is measured 2.9 µH.

From maerklinshop.de (https://www.maerklinshop.de/index.php?shp=1&cl=spareparts), if you put E516520 on Teil Nummer, then Märklin says Entstördrossel (Inhalt 20 Stück)3,9µH, 1,1A. So at first, I thought that it is orange, not red, as orange-white-gold-silver measured as 3.9 µH. But I'm sure that is red... Blink

So now, I guess Märklin have produce several chokes then, isn't it? There are 3.9, 2.9, 1.9, 3.3 µH??? Wow, quite confusing.

I never pay attention on chokes when I do conversion, until this problem occur. Is it possible that decoder got blew up due to incorrect value of chokes?
I have S 3/6 (33183) that already kill 2 of my mSD Crying, and I never knew why that is happening. Perhaps, better to left some loco with its original decoder Sad.

I check the link that BigDaddy provide, but I cannot determine the color ring on the inductor, even when I clicked the enlarge picture, still not clear, but as the item descriptions on the webpage says, then it is 3.3 µH.

PS: the loco having this inductor problem is 37182, and yes another S 3/6, with its original chokes, the loco is fine, don't know if I replace chokes with different value...... also the 33183 are retrofitted with DCM motor from 60760 but using mSD.

regards,
Sony
Offline 3rail4life  
#8 Posted : 13 July 2013 10:54:18(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Hi Sony,

If you would like to pm me your address I can send you a pair of 3.9uH inductors, this is the value I have seen listed on the Märklin spare parts page for the part #516520 (orange white gold silver) or if you would like to buy some on eBay check this listing:

3.9uH inductors

or

Märklin 3.9 inductors



I agree about the confusion on the values much of it I believe is due to different interpretations of the paint colors or maybe even Märklin actually used parts with different values in the past but the ones currently shipping in the motor kits are clearly 3.9uH and are identified as such in the parts diagrams for the locomotives.

Gordon

Edited by user 15 July 2013 05:54:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by 3rail4life
User is suspended until 24/11/2846 07:19:16(UTC) Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 13 July 2013 11:51:47(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,778
Location: New Zealand
I've used the 3.3uH chokes from Jaycar on several locos without any issues.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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