 Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 800 Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
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We have just moved house [again] and I am in the process of deciding on a new layout starting from scratch. What I am thinking of is a round the wall with a centre peninsular , maybe on 2 levels with a storage siding area underneath the main baseboard. I have been looking at a Helix for 1 end of the storage area and a ramp at the other end of the area.This will be double track entry & exit with Catenary operation for the Elok's . Is there a easy way to work out how many layers of Helix are needed for a given height change, I am thinking of using M 2251/2241 for the Helix to reduce drag on long trains or would M2241/2231 be suitable ?
Room size is 8.440 m x 4.400 m so plenty of room to play in , entry door is midway on 1 of the longer walls , no other obstructions to worry about .
Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Tom in Oz.
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Tom.
there are 2 deciding factors, a.) the rise, b.) track diameter, the lower the rise (e.g. 2 promille) would give you a good chance of running long trains with tracks such as 2241/2251 without burning the motor out but than again if you decide double header is a way to go you could increase it to 3 promille but you may not use every train with a double header.
the distance between each layer of the helix should not exceed 100 mm and 80 mm should be enough to run your overhead wire underneath the above helix, if you run older locos such as the 3011, 3014, 3015, 3023, 3024, 3025 you may increase it to 90 mm and this would suit both new and old E - locos.
another precautionary measure is to put some railing on each side to prevent any damage in case of an accident. I use Sommerfeldt catenary and the wire I'm using is thick enough to go over a length of 300 mm minimum.
regards.,
John
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 2 users liked this useful post by river6109
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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Tom,
I have no Catenary but worked on about 110mm between layers.
1. Determine the size of the Helix (Mine is about 1.6M X 1.1 M and has a 500mm straight on each side).
2. I used R2 (about 2231) on the Inner track and R3 (about 2241) on the up track. I used betwen 2.6 % and 3 % gradient. the outer track there was about 4.2 M of track per layer and track % was arounf 2.6%
I allowed about 40MM clearance between track and edge of Helex.
I had a lift of 330mm and used about 3.5 turns.
calculate the length of track on each lap. Use 2.5 % gradient on the outer track. Inner track (down Line) is not as important
I did not do a calculation but started the helix where I wanted it to start and adjusted it so it came out at the top where I wanted it. Then took it apart to lay the track and connect feeder wires.
It worked.
Nev |
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
1 user liked this useful post by nevw
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Originally Posted by: nevw  Tom,
I have no Catenary but worked on about 110mm between layers.
1. Determine the size of the Helix (Mine is about 4M X 1.1 M and has a 500mm straight on each side).
2. I used R2 (about 2231) on the Inner track and R3 (about 2241) on the up track. I used betwen 2.6 % and 3 % gradient. the outer track there was about 4.2 M of track per layer and track % was arounf 2.6%
I allowed about 40MM clearance between track and edge of Helex.
I had a lift of 330mm and used about 3.5 turns.
calculate the length of track on each lap. Use 2.5 % gradient on the outer track. Inner track (down Line) is not as important
I did not do a calculation but started the helix where I wanted it to start and adjusted it so it came out at the top where I wanted it. Then took it apart to lay the track and connect feeder wires.
It worked.
Nev Nev, you've calculated a very important point into the quotation by raising the height to 110mm to give you more room to get to a loco or rolling stock. John |
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1 user liked this useful post by river6109
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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John, My measurement was from the Bottom of the ply to bottom of the Ply, so need to take off 12mm. so from track base to roof distance is about 98mm.
Another important factor is the height of the track. Clearance has to be calculated from that height.
Nev |
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
1 user liked this useful post by nevw
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Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 108
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
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I am interested in this topic and thankful for Tom bringing up the subject.... Like Tom I am wanting to run my helix with electric locs with a non -operating catenary system......I normally run my electric locos in tunnel segments without any form of installed catenary (except at both ends of the tunnel )and let the pantographs automatically spring up and then spring down again on a modified catenary transition piece at each end of my tunnel segments. Obviously this method will create extra height within the helix design...... would 110mm be enough to clear the height needed to support a fully extended pantograph..?? |
Steve...............
Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains.......... |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
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Hi!
I've seen pictures of several helixes where a single N gauge rail (e.g. split N gauge flex track) was used as catenary. Thus you don't have to allow fully extended pantographs (but you need transition pieces at the ends of the helix). |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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