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Offline cookee_nz  
#1 Posted : 15 April 2013 08:53:13(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 4,013
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hi all,

A fellow collector has asked for my opinion on an unusual coach which he has acquired. It's a 346/4 Baggage car with the tail lights mounted through the roof.

There is no information that this variation was ever produced by Märklin and there are only two options

1: It's a very rare variation (unlikely as it is not known in Koll's or any other reference), or...

2: A previous owner has taken a 346/4 body, and transplanted it onto a 346/1BS chassis.

A transplant would be required because there is a mounting pin pressed into the chassis to secure the tail light assy and this would be difficult to replicate.

There is no suggestion that this item has been sold or passed off as a rare version, it's more a curio than anything which I was happy to assist in checking.

He has sent me the wagon for closer inspection and it seems evident that all the body/chassis tabs have been disturbed.

For one thing, there are obvious scratches around most of them - it's tricky work indeed prising these tabs up without damage - I know because I have done it previously on an old wagon to repaint it. Secondly, the paint is chipped where the tab is folded - other similar wagons I have are not chipped in this manner, except for the one that I disassembled some years back.

I guess when first assembled the paint was still relatively 'soft' and less likely to crack whereas after 30/40 years or more, the stress of straightening the tab, and then refolding it would be more than the paint could stand. In fact I'd suspect that a further attempt to work with these tabs would simply see them snap off through metal fatigue.

But, all that aside, it's kind of a cool wagon, particularly for those perhaps more used to non-European railways where the baggage car (Caboose) is almost always at the rear of the train. European trains of course and certainly the consists as shown in the early catalogues have the Baggage car right behind the Loco so there would be no need for tail lights.

Here are some pics of the wagon, the scratches and the lighting unit for those who have not seen one 'in the flesh'.

If by any chance this is not the only example, and the scratches are coincidental, let's have references to others.

Regards

Steve
NZ
cookee_nz attached the following image(s):
346-4-1.jpg
346-4-2.jpg
346-4-3.jpg
346-4a.jpg
346-4b.jpg
346-4c3.jpg
346-4d.jpg
ChassisMount.jpg
Lightassy-fitted.jpg
Lightassy-rear.jpg
Lightassy-front.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 15 April 2013 11:06:33(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,245
Location: Montreal, QC
There was a coach from that series with the twin taillights mounted at one end. It would appear that somebody has taken the coach frame (sheet), the taillight unit and the roof piece from that coach and installed them on the baggage car.
We used to have one of those models and for some reason, it was always causing short circuits on the layout.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Nigel Packer  
#3 Posted : 15 April 2013 11:23:25(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 700
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
There was a coach from that series with the twin taillights mounted at one end. It would appear that somebody has taken the coach frame (sheet), the taillight unit and the roof piece from that coach and installed them on the baggage car.
We used to have one of those models and for some reason, it was always causing short circuits on the layout.

Regards

Mike C


Yes, I think that's right.

The coach with tail lights is the 346/1 BS (later numbered 4007), and it was made from 1951 to 1957 with various colour changes. This roof has ventilators modelled in it along its length.

The baggage car is 346/4 (later 4012), and that had a smooth roof with no ventilators, but with a raised cupola.

So this is a 346/4 coach with a 346/1 BS roof.

Whether the coach body has been disassembled is a separate issue!

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
Offline cookee_nz  
#4 Posted : 15 April 2013 11:41:21(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 4,013
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
There was a coach from that series with the twin taillights mounted at one end. It would appear that somebody has taken the coach frame (sheet), the taillight unit and the roof piece from that coach and installed them on the baggage car.
We used to have one of those models and for some reason, it was always causing short circuits on the layout.

Regards

Mike C


Yes, I think that's right.

The coach with tail lights is the 346/1 BS (later numbered 4007), and it was made from 1951 to 1957 with various colour changes. This roof has ventilators modelled in it along its length.

The baggage car is 346/4 (later 4012), and that had a smooth roof with no ventilators, but with a raised cupola.

So this is a 346/4 coach with a 346/1 BS roof.

Whether the coach body has been disassembled is a separate issue!

Nigel


Thanks guys, I guess you both missed that I already determined that was the most likely reason in my original post

2: A previous owner has taken a 346/4 body, and transplanted it onto a 346/1BS chassis.

Note that you can't just fit the light support and roof, you need the actual chassis base because it has the all-important mounting stud riveted in place.

So what has happened here is that the chassis, light assy & roof from a 346/1 BS have been fitted to the 346/4 body (walls & end panels). Not a difficult operation at all really if you are careful.

I do have one of the 346/1 BS coaches of my own, I think they are quite neat. According to the 1952 catalogue they should have interior lighting as well as the tail lights.

Thanks anyway

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Chook  
#5 Posted : 15 April 2013 14:00:11(UTC)
Chook

Australia   
Joined: 15/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Perth, Western Australia.
Steve I was just looking at ebay and guess what?

http://www.ebay.com.au/i...&hash=item2c6dc93e28

Regards....Chook
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 15 April 2013 19:00:11(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,245
Location: Montreal, QC
Here is a listing for the original baggage car: http://www.ebay.com/itm/...ggage-car-/200912241148?

I did not miss your point, I was confirming your assessment.
The tabs securing the shell to the chassis do seem to have been manipulated, but this was done by somebody who was proficient, because other than a few marks, there is little sign that it has been tampered with.

On Chook's ebay link, the coach appears to have two sliders. Would a factory installed lighting have a separate slider for the taillights and for the lights?
I seem to remember that my Dad's model had one slider.

Regards

Mike C

Offline cookee_nz  
#7 Posted : 15 April 2013 22:08:01(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 4,013
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Here is a listing for the original baggage car: http://www.ebay.com/itm/...ggage-car-/200912241148?

I did not miss your point, I was confirming your assessment.
The tabs securing the shell to the chassis do seem to have been manipulated, but this was done by somebody who was proficient, because other than a few marks, there is little sign that it has been tampered with.

On Chook's ebay link, the coach appears to have two sliders. Would a factory installed lighting have a separate slider for the taillights and for the lights?
I seem to remember that my Dad's model had one slider.

Regards

Mike C



Hi Mike & Chook, yes that's the coach we would expect to see, the 346/1 BS which is documented, unlike the 346/4 hybrid example that I have displayed.

The other anomoly of course is the incorrect roof - if Märklin had produced this, I'd still expect it to have the baggage car roof with the ventilator.

As for the lighting, well the catalogue does indicate interior AND tail lighting so yes, I think two shoes would be required - who cares about the drag, in those days they were being hauled by one of the bigger 800 series loco with heaps of grunt - piece of cake. BigGrin

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline jvuye  
#8 Posted : 16 April 2013 10:25:07(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,883
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post


As for the lighting, well the catalogue does indicate interior AND tail lighting so yes, I think two shoes would be required - who cares about the drag, in those days they were being hauled by one of the bigger 800 series loco with heaps of grunt - piece of cake. BigGrin

Cheers

Steve


Hi all
Well I don't think so!
Only one slider is needed, not a problem to splice in the wire for the lighting!
Both my 346/1 BS have only one pick up.
One is a first version "löffel-schleifer" for solid centre rail ,equiped with a switch.
The other has a regular ski type pick up.
The first one is packed with some of my old(er) stuff , but I'll post a pic of its bottom BigGrin as soon as it comes out of the box and before going in the new display cases.Wink
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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