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Offline Artologic  
#1 Posted : 03 April 2013 17:10:44(UTC)
Artologic

Belgium   
Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 502
Hey everyone,

Today I found one of my signals with a spool wire broken (the one for the yellow/green stance, so it only switches to green - red)... Now to not having to throw it away, I was wondering what happened in real life with the semaphore when a siding was removed (or another situation where the signal would show yellow). Did they replace the signal completly, did they adapt it or did they leave it the way it was, just not using the yellow stance anymore?
I hope someone can clarify...

Greetings Kristof
Offline petestra  
#2 Posted : 03 April 2013 17:25:25(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,862
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Hi Kristoff, I have seen photos of German Semaphore signals with a large red X on the

mast. I believe that this indicates an out-of-order signal? Anyone else who can further

clarify this please do so. Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by petestra
Offline Artologic  
#3 Posted : 03 April 2013 17:33:17(UTC)
Artologic

Belgium   
Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 502
Hey Peter,

Thanks for the reply! To put it on the layout as out of order would be an option too, but somewhere I hope it would be prototypically correct to use it as a green/red signal...

Greetings Kristof
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Artologic
Online H0  
#4 Posted : 03 April 2013 18:29:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,450
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

The big white X indicates signals that have to be ignored. For the transition from semaphores to light signals, they first erect light signals and decorate them with the X. When the light signals are operational, the X moves to the semaphores until they are taken away. So the white X does not always indicate "out of order".

I don't know where I read it but I'm pretty sure that DB would have left the signal in place even if the third state was no longer needed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Artologic  
#5 Posted : 03 April 2013 22:00:32(UTC)
Artologic

Belgium   
Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 502
Hey Tom,

Thanks for the reply and the information. That would be good news for me then :-). Do you have any idea if they would attach something to the second arm of the signal or just totally leave it as it is?

Kristof
Offline evan.v.giles  
#6 Posted : 16 April 2013 14:38:15(UTC)
evan.v.giles


Joined: 15/03/2013(UTC)
Posts: 85
Location: South Brisbane, Queensland
Hi everyone
As far as I know here in Australia they would repair the signal as even with a three aspect signal the yellow has an important function to warn the driver to restrict his speed as he passes
the signal and with the signals in NSW they use a steady yellow or a flashing yellow.
If the yellow was missing the driver may crash his train because he approached a junction to fast or he could slam into a train in front.
This happened at North Strathfield
And the X on a signal here means it is not operational or commissioned and is not used for any other purpose and if a signal was no longer needed they would remove it altogether.
They have decommissioned all semaphore signals in most states.
With the introduction of automated central control the entire network is now controlled by about seven computerised buildings in NSW.BigGrin
Offline Dimi194  
#7 Posted : 17 April 2013 01:41:09(UTC)
Dimi194

Australia   
Joined: 21/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by: evan.v.giles Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone
As far as I know here in Australia they would repair the signal as even with a three aspect signal the yellow has an important function to warn the driver to restrict his speed as he passes
the signal and with the signals in NSW they use a steady yellow or a flashing yellow.
If the yellow was missing the driver may crash his train because he approached a junction to fast or he could slam into a train in front.
This happened at North Strathfield
And the X on a signal here means it is not operational or commissioned and is not used for any other purpose and if a signal was no longer needed they would remove it altogether.
They have decommissioned all semaphore signals in most states.
With the introduction of automated central control the entire network is now controlled by about seven computerised buildings in NSW.BigGrin


My line still has semaphore signals, however they are being replaced as we speak; stranglely, instead of using the X method, a bag has been left covering the new light signals until they are ready.
:P
Author of the gritty sci-fi novel 'Stories of Earth: WWIII' (featuring an awesome train chase)
Avid YouTuber (XtremeTrainz and TrainzXtreme) and train person!
Offline kariosls37  
#8 Posted : 17 April 2013 03:32:00(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
There is a couple of ways to indicate a signal out of use;
-The white X
-Covering up the lights
-Turning the head (i.e. the part where the lights are) at 90' to the track

Other countries may have other means as well. Due to the construction of German signals the third method won't be practical, but the first two will. In any case, it needs to be clearly indicated, so enginedrivers will be able to distinguish between a faulty signal and a signal not in use easily and quickly to avoid potentially dangerous situations.

Evan, the signal you describe is slightly different to the semaphore signal being discussed.
In essence, the signal has two arms, with the upper indicating Danger - Stop! or Clear - Proceed.
-The lower arm is disregarded if the upper arm is at Danger.

-If the upper arm indicates Clear - Proceed and the lower arm is vertical, no light is displayed and the indication of the whole signal will be "Clear - Proceed at line speed"

-If the upper arm indicates Clear - Proceed and the lower arm is inclined at 45' an orange light is displayed beside the lower arm, the whole signal indicates "Clear - proceed at low speed(40 km/h)"

The last indication is usually displayed before facing points, hence the question.

I am guessing the Australian light signals are set up like the NZ ones, with the last signal before a junction indicating for example Red over Yellow, indicating "Proceed at low speed through diverging points and be prepared to stop at the next signal should the latter be at stop"
which is different to the way German semaphore or light signals would indicate such a message.

Cheers,
Rick
Offline evan.v.giles  
#9 Posted : 06 May 2013 23:31:01(UTC)
evan.v.giles


Joined: 15/03/2013(UTC)
Posts: 85
Location: South Brisbane, Queensland
Hi everyone
Further to what I said in regard to signals in NSW a Home signal had three indications - Red - stop - arm horizontal - Yellow - caution - reduce speed - arm 45 degrees - Green clear to proceed
- arm vertical.
If required a second one was palced below which would be either a Starter or Approach signal and these would give the same indications as the home signal.
This was adopt basicaly straight from the British.
The yellow light was adopted because as train speed increased they needed to allow a bigger cap between trains.
The colour light signals was what I was refering to because the indications of semaphores were almost universal however colour lights are a whole new ball game and the indications become
more complicated with each additional head.

I live in Queensland now but spent a fair chunk of my life living in NSW and my father took me when I was around 16 to see the newly opened fully computerised signal centre at Redfern
It replaced every signal box from Sydney to Richmond - Blacktown - Liverpool - Hornsby - Penrith and Waterfall and slowly they have replaced all the signal boxes.
The line from Sydney to Brisbane is now controlled by three centres now - Sydney - Broadmeadow and Taree.Smile
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