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Offline BrandonVA  
#1 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:15:34(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Hello all,

As many of you have seen previously on this forum, I have a 3082 BR41 that will not run right in R1 curves (binds to the point of stopping except and excessively high speeds) no matter what I do. I've cleaned the chassis extensivily with Ronsonol (normally does the trick), strips it down and built it back up, run it with various bits of the valve gear disconnected or removed. I still am not sure what's wrong with it, although I think maybe 1 or more of the axles maybe slightly bent.

At any rate, I have a new "solution" for this problem (which worked), to replace the chassis of the locomotive. I was able to find a used chassis on eBay.de, so that became my doner. I will also keep the original chassis and maybe still one day be able to figure out what is wrong with it. In this thread I will explain how I swapped the chassis. Due to the nature of this project, I also decided to use it as an oppertunity to point out a couple of standard service items on a DCM (drum commutator motor) locomotive. I know that for many in this forum its very basic stuff, and many of you have a vast knowledge from which I have learned a lot. I thought this may be helpful for new users or members who are still starting out. I am a visual learner, so pictures always help in understanding.

Now, we progress. Steps:

Edit: Step zero is cleaning the doner chassis with ronsonal and a q-tip (or similar) to remove carbon in the motor shield area as well as any old oil gumming up the axle.

1.) Repair visible painted areas on old chassis as the had a few small flaws. I used Testors 1150 Flat red and 1103 Gloss red as needed (colours were perfect for DB red, as suggested by Dr. D.), applied with a brush carefully and employed some paint filter to hide any brush strokes. I wish I had taken some pictures of the process, but I did not. Maybe next time.

2.) Get your locomotive and new chassis.

UserPostedImage


***Edit - Updated SFCM (small flat Commutator motor) to DCM (drum commutator motor) at Brakepad and Chris' suggestion, as this is the correct motor type in this locomotive, but also many locomotives released in this era (70s/80s).***

Edited by user 20 November 2012 14:47:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline BrandonVA  
#2 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:18:28(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
3.) Start by removing the body/cover of the locomotive. Depending on the locomotive, the screw(s) can be in various places, sometimes on the top, sometimes on the bottom. Some are covered with a vanity cover, etc. If you have the instruction book that came with the locomotive, it will tell you where to remove the screws for service. If not, you can look at the parts diagram on maerklin.com and note the screw locations.

In the case of 3082, as many of the large engines made in the 70s/80s, the screw is on the bottom:

UserPostedImage

Now you can remove the cover:

UserPostedImage
Offline BrandonVA  
#3 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:24:10(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
4.) Now it's time to remove the locomotive brushes. You would use this same procedure to replace them. Since mine were in good shape, I just reused them. Use tweezers to pull the little copper spring that holds the brush. if you move it upwards, you can allow it to pull back against the dome on the motor shield, thus exposing the brush.

UserPostedImage

Next, remove the brushes. Sometimes you can use a small flathead screwdriver or tweezers to do this. Sometimes it's easier to pick up the locomotive and gently/carefully shake it until the brush falls out on your workbench. Note the position of the brush springs in this photo, this is where they can be "stored" to make room to get the brushes out. Note there are two brushes, one in the channel on each side of the motor.

UserPostedImage

Offline BrandonVA  
#4 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:29:54(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
5.) Now it's time to remove the motor shield (the black cover from which the brushes were removed). There are normally two long screws holding it in. Note that one of the screws will also secure a groundwire in place (the lower screw in the picture). Make sure to put the screw through the ground wire when reassembling. You would remove the motor cover for various service reasons, some of which are:

-To clean the motor of carbon buildup from used brushes
-To clean out old gummed up oil
-To replace the rotor
-To replace the field coil
-To replace the motor shield

UserPostedImage

And now the "bottom" screw (see the ground lug here):

UserPostedImage

Now you can remove the cover. Be careful not to strain/break the wires attached to it, especially thin copper line connecting the motor shield to the field coil (big coil of copper):

UserPostedImage
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Offline Brakepad  
#5 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:41:42(UTC)
Brakepad

France, Metropolitan   
Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 633
Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
Thanks for the tutorial, which is extensive and very detailed. But does your BR41 have a SFCM motor?

I have several versions of it and all of them have DCM motors.
check out http://maerklin-back-on-track.blogspot.com if you like to see how old Märklin locos are brought back into life! (in spanish by the moment)
Offline BrandonVA  
#6 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:45:31(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
6.) For replacing the chassis, we need to free the wire that feeds the front bulb (lamps). On this loc, the wire runs under a screw and plastic cover that retain the valve gear. When removing this screw, be careful to not let the valve gear fall off or get out of alignment. It can be fixed, but it is easier to avoid.

You can also see the motor shield (black) and field coil (silver/copper) falling off of the motor at the back of the locomotive since the screws have been removed.

UserPostedImage

Now that the screw is removed and the plastic cover set aside, the wire can be moved along with the front bulb contact, as this wire is attached to the cover/coil unit. Despite my picture, it's easier to remove this with the bulb out. Bulbs are different on various models. On this one, you gently twist the bulb until you can pull it straight up.

UserPostedImage


Now, the whole thing can be removed (motor shield, field coil, wiring). Again, careful with the wiring. In this case we are lucky since the reverse unit and pickup shoe is in the tender of the locomotive, so all wires lead there.

UserPostedImage
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Offline BrandonVA  
#7 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:48:33(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Another shot with the wire and motor cover/field coil removed from the main chassis:

UserPostedImage
Offline BrandonVA  
#8 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:50:19(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
7.) Now we need to remove the rotor. since the motor cover has been removed, it is simple to just pull it out. You may also do this in order to clean the rotor of carbon buildup, oil gumming on the shafts, or to replace it if need be.

UserPostedImage

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Offline BrandonVA  
#9 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:53:38(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
8.) Since I am just swapping the front chassis due to some sort of drive problem, I am using the same tender. The tender could also be torn down to remove or service the reverse unit, pickup shoe, etc, but we will have to save that for another day. The tender is held on to the body by a single "C" clip. I used a small flathead screwdriver to carefully pry this off until it released. There are two little cutouts in it which you can get the head of your screwdriver under.

In the photo, the C clip is already removed and laying on the cloth below the shaft. The tweezers are pointing at the shaft from which it was removed.

UserPostedImage

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Offline BrandonVA  
#10 Posted : 19 November 2012 19:56:36(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Reassmbly:

This is very much just the reverse order of the teardown. I did take a few pictures, so I will share them with comment.

1.) Install the rotor in the new chassis. Hopefully the picture helps you to see how it goes in. There are teeth on the end of the shaft, so when installing it won't go in straight unless you align the teeth.

UserPostedImage

2.) Attach the tender to the new chassis (again, careful with all the wiring hanging off of it, motor shield, field coil, etc). I used a small pair of precision pliers to squeeze the C clip back onto the shaft.

UserPostedImage

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Offline BrandonVA  
#11 Posted : 19 November 2012 20:00:08(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
3.) Reinstall the motor cover and field coil. These here is the completed result (two screws installed minding the wire lug on the lower one):

UserPostedImage

4.) Route the (black) wire for the headlight along the channel in the chassis. Make sure when you get close to the motor it doesn't slip out and get between the wheel and the chassis. Also, again be mindful to keeping the valve gear in alignment. The lamp contact can simply be pushed into it's slot.

UserPostedImage
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Offline BrandonVA  
#12 Posted : 19 November 2012 20:03:35(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Detail of the bulb contact with bulb reinstalled (insert and gently twist). The copper contact above the bulb (see below) is for a smoke generator.

UserPostedImage
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Offline BrandonVA  
#13 Posted : 19 November 2012 20:10:11(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
5.) The shafts of the motor should be oiled. There are many different preferences for oil, it is up to you what to choose. Just make sure to only apply a tiny bit. Too much is bad, it can contaminate the motor, get on the track, etc.

Here is where the oil should be applied on the motor shield. Give it just a moment to soak in.

UserPostedImage

Now flip the chassis over and apply at the opposite end of the rotor shaft. Another moment for soaking in.

UserPostedImage

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Offline BrandonVA  
#14 Posted : 19 November 2012 20:12:02(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
6.) Before reinstalling the cover, we should give the locomotive a quick test to make sure everything is good (forward, reverse, lights, cornering). Keep in mind that with some locos (such as this one) the shell is needed to add weight to keep the chassis on the track, so be careful with testing as it may be more prone to de-reailing.

UserPostedImage
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Offline BrandonVA  
#15 Posted : 19 November 2012 20:15:49(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
7.) Now we will reinstall the shell. In some locos (again, such as this one), there is a clear plastic diffuser to take the light from the bulb to the headlights. They can fall out pretty easily, so make sure you have it and that it is in place.

The bottom front of the shell:

UserPostedImage

Reinstall the shell and screw it on. The screw should be hand tight, but not too tight. Make sure it is not so loose the loco will fall if you pick it up by the shell! Also, 3082 is fitted with a cover contact (part of the bulb powering mechanism) that could power a smoke generator. My loco does not have a smoke generator, but you still have to mind the copper contact when reinstalling the shell.

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Offline BrandonVA  
#16 Posted : 19 November 2012 20:22:43(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Finally, the most important step: To enjoy the locomotive! Here are a couple of photos of BR41 running on my layout.

First, no more trouble (beyond the slight binding inherent to the design) on R1 curves:

UserPostedImage

Whew, made it through that curve no problem!

UserPostedImage

Up on the hill:

UserPostedImage

Over at the yard:

UserPostedImage

Thanks to everyone for looking. I hope this post has been helpful!

-Brandon
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Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 19 November 2012 20:37:53(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Great tutorial, Brandon! [thumup]

I think this thread should be made "sticky" for reference. Members who are new to the hobby, or have never attempted servicing will find it most informative.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline steventrain  
#18 Posted : 19 November 2012 20:41:34(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Excellent work, Brandon.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Chris6382chris  
#19 Posted : 19 November 2012 21:54:03(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,215
Location: Middle of the US
Originally Posted by: Brakepad Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the tutorial, which is extensive and very detailed. But does your BR41 have a SFCM motor?

I have several versions of it and all of them have DCM motors.


Great tutorial Brandon. ThumpUp and Brakepad you are correct, it is a DCM, good catch.

Brandon:

Regarding your binding issue have you looked at either the drive rods possibly being bent or out of alignment? Also, besides a bent axle how about wheel alignment, I have had a wheel on occasion that needed to be adjusted so that it was truly in gauge.

Chris
Offline foumaro  
#20 Posted : 20 November 2012 05:13:03(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
The BEST presentation i ever see in this forum,congratulations.ThumpUp
Offline cookee_nz  
#21 Posted : 20 November 2012 09:39:24(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Chris6382chris Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Brakepad Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the tutorial, which is extensive and very detailed. But does your BR41 have a SFCM motor?

I have several versions of it and all of them have DCM motors.


Great tutorial Brandon. ThumpUp and Brakepad you are correct, it is a DCM, good catch.

Brandon:

Regarding your binding issue have you looked at either the drive rods possibly being bent or out of alignment? Also, besides a bent axle how about wheel alignment, I have had a wheel on occasion that needed to be adjusted so that it was truly in gauge.

Chris

Yep, very informative and nice clear photo's, well done.

Re the binding, my first thought was whether one (or more) sets of wheels were just a little over-gauge (or under)? - most likely the two end sets of the drivers. On a straight or wider radii they would be ok, but R1 puts the most demand on, so if one or more axle sets was just a little wider than normal (it would not take much), it could be just enough to cause your problem. You'd need a micrometer to check accurately but could do a rough check quickly with a fine steel rule.

Assuming the loco is spec'd as actually being able to handle R1, they often achieve this by having a degree of lateral movement of the axles, over-gauge would mean the bind would be at the flange against the rail. If an axle was under-gauge, there would not be enough lateral play to allow the full range of movement, again the wheel flange would bind on the rail but that would be the symptom, rather than the cause.

Could be worth checking? BigGrin

Regards

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline BrandonVA  
#22 Posted : 20 November 2012 14:44:52(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Brakepad, Chris - Both are you are correct, it is a DCM. That is my mistake for sure. For the benefit of the post, DCM is Drum Commutator Motor. Thank you! I will edit the post with the correction.

Chris - I've run the loco with various parts of the valve gear disconnected, but it seems to be a really heavy bind from the chassis. It will bind to a stop even with the white transformer at something like 100-120 (I know this is relative to my transformer, but still a decent amount of power). I think Steve may be on to something with the wheels being out of gauge. I can't see any problem, but the front wheelset just seems to be a little off in a way I can't describe.

Steve - thank you, great suggestion. I will try to check it out and let everyone know if I find anything.

Thanks all for the positive comments!

-Brandon
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Offline Danlake  
#23 Posted : 20 November 2012 19:23:08(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Thanks Brandon,

Excellent tutorial - it goes i my save listThumpUp

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Mark5  
#24 Posted : 21 November 2012 20:42:17(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Thanks for posting the extensive photos Brandon!

All this helps give me confidence that I am thinking and doing the right thing.

- Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline JDennis  
#25 Posted : 18 January 2022 23:31:55(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
That was indeed a great article, great detail, great pics. I have a 3082 and I'm trying to convert to digital. Can't find the parts list for it, and even AJCKids can't seem to determine what the replacement motor should be for this thing. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks.
Offline ROBMODEL  
#26 Posted : 19 January 2022 19:54:55(UTC)
ROBMODEL

Netherlands   
Joined: 08/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Hallo JDennis, I converted my 3082 long ago and used the following parts for the motor.

Märklin part no. description Used for
389000 Permanent magnet stator for converting to DCM motors
386940 Motor cover motor cover for converting to DCM motors
386820 5-pole collector collector for converting to DCM motors
601460 2 brushes -
516520 2 suppression coil 3,9 micro-henri for suppression of the motor.
231470 Solder clip for connecting the earthing on the motor
785140 2 bolts M2 x 12 for connecting the motor

Hope this helps you.

Kind regards, Rob
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