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Offline Sam  
#1 Posted : 23 March 2005 06:23:32(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
I am trying to find out what the equal part number to the 7226 Marklin smoke generator with the Seuthe brand... is it the 20 or 24? or neither?

Moreover, which smoke generator does the 37080/81/82 use? and which one does the 37953 use? thanks all!

Sam

Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline efel  
#2 Posted : 23 March 2005 09:51:42(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
I take the opportunity of Sam's question to add mine(hope you don't mind, Sam):
I'd like to add a smoke generator to my Mallet 37962, that has no provision for it.
What kind of smoke generator could suit?
I don't know yet if I will connect it to the pick up shoe, or to the lighting output of the decoder (the loco has only 1 function: lighting!). Any advice?
Anybody knows the current consumption ?
Thanks in advance for your answer!
Fred
Offline Guus  
#3 Posted : 23 March 2005 11:02:59(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Sam,Hi Fred,Hi all,

Hope you'll find an answer to your question in a previous discussion on this subject I posted:

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:After burning out my decoder I asked The Märklin factory directly whether I used the correct type of smoke generator or not. Here is their answer:

Bei Digital-Lokomotiven mit einem Mehrfunktionsdecoder, die in den
Produktbeschreibungen des Kataloges mti einem fx gekennzeichnet sind, wird
der konventionelle Raucheinsatz Art. 72270 (Seuthe Nr. 20) für alle
Betriebsarten eingesetzt, damit eine ausreichende Dampfentwicklung erfolgt.

Für Delta-Modelle und 37...-Triebfahrzeuge mit nur einer Sonderfunktion des
Decoders wird im Delta- und Digital-Betrieb der digitale Raucheinsatz Seuthe
Nr. 24 und im konventionellen Betrieb die Nr. 20 verwendet.

Diese Regelung gilt für alle Märklin-Lokomotiven.

Basicly what they say is:
Function models designated with fx in the catalogue need M 72270 or Seuthe nr.20 to ensure enough smoke and all other models 37... with only one function need the Seuthe Nr.24.
In conventional operation the Seuthe Nr. 20 is the one to install


Additionally what I found is:

The Seuthe nr. 20 and 24 are comparable with M 72270 in size and mounted from inside loc body.
The Seuthe nr.10 and 11 are comparable with M 7226 in size and mounted from above.

The way I understand it ,is that the more sensitive units (conventional type!)should be used in a loco with more than one function and the special digital units in Delta or Digital locos with only one function.

Seuthe nr.11 and 24 are the "Digital" types recognizable by the pink coloured insulator.
Seuthe nr.10 and 20 are the "Conventional" ones recognizable by the green insulator.

Sam, for your M 37953 you would need the Seuthe nr.10 (= M 7226) and for your M 37082 the Seuthe nr. 20 (= M 72270)

Please note, that I have collected this information to the best of my knowledge and cannot absolutely guarantee it is all correct.

Fred,the smokegenerator in my loc (M 37186) is connected to the 500 mA function outlet.

Best Regards
Guus



Kind regards,
Guus
Offline rschaffr  
#4 Posted : 23 March 2005 14:52:33(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Sam: I have the physical and electric characteristics of all the Seuthe generators at http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/seuthe.jpg
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline john black  
#5 Posted : 23 March 2005 15:15:52(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />I have the physical and electric characteristics of all the Seuthe generators at ...


Wow ... Ron, ya see me deeply impressed, once again Smile

John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline Rocca  
#6 Posted : 23 March 2005 16:17:43(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 617
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />Sam: I have the physical and electric characteristics of all the Seuthe generators at http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/seuthe.jpg


Hi Ron,

Your layout too is very impressive!!! Smile Congratulations!!!!! [:p][:p]
An impressive work!!

Best regards
Stefano
Offline Sam  
#7 Posted : 23 March 2005 16:19:15(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
As always gentleman, great info and great help! Makes this hobby a lot easier!
Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline rschaffr  
#8 Posted : 23 March 2005 16:26:08(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
Originally posted by Rocca:

Your layout too is very impressive!!! Congratulations!!!!!
An impressive work!!


Thanks. I have been neglecting it lately..too many other demands on my time plus I'm helping my son move into his new house. He has been living with us for several years saving for a down payment. As soon as he moves his stuff out of my basement, I will have room to expand. I am planning an industrial area with an e-lok and diesel parking and maintenance area where his TV and stereo are presently located. I have already built the Vollmer maintenance shed for it.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Frostie  
#9 Posted : 23 March 2005 16:27:08(UTC)
Frostie

United States   
Joined: 08/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,614
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
IMHO opinion I have never gotten satisfactory steam from the 72270 type smopke generators. As such, I never use the smoke function on these locomotives.

Has anybody had the same experience.

Note to Sam: The class 10 locomotives are a little fiddly putting back together. My problems have been with the two red plastic pieces that slip into the body and are held by pressure from the lower assembly in place.

I have used some scotch tape in the past to ease reassembly.
Train Collection Insured by "Croc's" with "Big Boys" as Backup"
CS/MS Digital Era 1/2
Apple Man iPhone / Macbook Pro / iPad - the end of the windows PC occurred on April 4, 2010.
Love those Era 1 Tank Locomotives - the more the merrier.

Offline rschaffr  
#10 Posted : 23 March 2005 16:39:33(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Robert:

I only use Seuthe generators. I have never had a problem with them. I believe the 72270 is a rebranded Seuthe, but I have never bought one. As a side note, I have found that the function voltage on the ESU decoders is less than that on the 60902. I drive coach lights with relays, and had to go to a 12v relay for ESU decoders, wheras I use a 24v relay with the 60902. If you are driving your smoke from an ESU or ESU derivative Marklin decoder, that could be why it is underproducing.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Sam  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2005 23:01:25(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Frostie, thanks for the note... I will have to remove the body anyway to do the lube needed before operations, so I'll do it then.. I don't really plan to use it much on the Class 10's as I want them to remain in good condition, but I will use the smoke a lot on my 44, 03, and 53..

BTW... what kind of smoke is that? Obviously it's not toxic, but does it give off odor?
Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline hmsfix  
#12 Posted : 24 March 2005 00:47:14(UTC)
hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Hi all,

I use smoke generators in various loks: a 7226 in an BR 44 (3047, analogic mode), and 72270 in an S 3/6 (analogic) and a Mikado (37973, digital).

I have found that steam production depends very strongly on the quantity of steam oil filled into the generator. Maerklin recommends to put 6 drops of that special oil, but the drops can be small or large. Moreover, it is almost impossible not to spill the oil over the lok with these oil ampoules. So you never know how much oil is really in the steam generator.
Therefore I use my "junkie set" (a 3 milli-liter syringe with a steel needle) for this operation. 150-200 micro liters seems to be the optimal quantity to get reasonable steam. This is a little tricky. So I would appreciate to learn about any better method.

The steam oil is a mixture of so called n- and i-alcanes, i.e. noncyclic hydrocarbons. It is not toxic, but sensitive people might get skin irritation when they get in contact with that liquid. The smoke coming from out of the lok chimney is more or less the same as the white smoke that lifts from a candle that you have just blown out.

Best regards

Hans Martin
Offline Frostie  
#13 Posted : 24 March 2005 02:39:57(UTC)
Frostie

United States   
Joined: 08/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,614
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
I also have been accused of being a Junkie - I must smell some smoke now.

I use the smoke syringes that come with Seuthe smoke generators.biggrin
Train Collection Insured by "Croc's" with "Big Boys" as Backup"
CS/MS Digital Era 1/2
Apple Man iPhone / Macbook Pro / iPad - the end of the windows PC occurred on April 4, 2010.
Love those Era 1 Tank Locomotives - the more the merrier.

Online xxup  
#14 Posted : 24 March 2005 09:57:05(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Frostie
<br />I also have been accused of being a Junkie - I must smell some smoke now...


Yeah baby - Cool A must for solving dem swedish quizzes.. [:p]
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline Guus  
#15 Posted : 24 March 2005 20:45:56(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Robert,Hi all,

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Frostie:
IMHO opinion I have never gotten satisfactory steam from the 72270 type smopke generators. As such, I never use the smoke function on these locomotives.

Has anybody had the same experience.


Yes I have Robert,in a S 3/6 (Märklin's 37186) [:(].

While on the subject do you or any other forum member have experience with Suethe smokegenerators.There is some talk about Seuthe being better than M confused.

Thanks in advance.

Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline Sam  
#16 Posted : 24 March 2005 21:47:56(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Glad to hear we have some smoke junkies in the crowd...

As for Suethe, that is what my dealer is sending me saying that is is the identical unit to the Marklin (made for Marklin)... however, I'm paying $25 for them, which isn't much of a price break from the Marklin branded ones... so I'm not sure what the advantage would be. However, Marklin doesn't void your warrantee if you use them, I'm told.

Thanks again for the info guys..
Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline Mikael  
#17 Posted : 24 March 2005 23:29:28(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Frostie
<br />IMHO opinion I have never gotten satisfactory steam from the 72270 type smopke generators. As such, I never use the smoke function on these locomotives.

It would seem that I am the exception. I only have one lok that uses the 72270 type smoker, but it works just great here. First, I got the Seuthe one for analog operation (but I drive digital). At that time I wasn't aware that there was a difference. But I learned quickly. Boy could that one smoke biggrin So I changed it for a digital one instead, and it smokes just perfect.

But one day I took it over to my cousin. He has a fairly large C track layout, and guess what: I couldn't get it to smoke at all. Once it made a very thin, and barely visible, smoke puff. But that's all. Getting back home, it smoked happily again. Weird.
BTW. Not long after my visit, his IntelliBox broke down. I wonder if he had some power supply or wiring problems. While I was there, we happened to make a short, but the IB didn't register this. It just heated up until it shut itself down due to temperature.
Offline efel  
#18 Posted : 01 April 2005 18:33:50(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Hello Guus, Ron, All,

I'm back in the forum after one week.
Thanks for your valuable advices, and complete Seuthe information on Ron's site!Smile
After measuring the chimney of my Mallet loco, I have to choose a "slim" chimney model, and even, I'll have to make the base of the loco chimney larger, for the Seuthe generator has a 7 mm diameter, for a chimney hole of 6 mm![:(]
I'm not very keen on that.
Has anybody already done that? Any advice for avoiding catastrophic result? Should I use a drill or a mill?

Thanks,

Fred
Offline rschaffr  
#19 Posted : 01 April 2005 19:25:45(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Fred: Before you go and widen the hole on your stack, wait until you get the generator. The tubes on the generators aren't exactly round, they are slightly elliptical so that when you force them into the stack they hold tight. Do not modify your lok body until you try to insert the generator...but don't put TOO much pressure on it when you try. You will either jam it so you can't remove it or damage it. It should slide in with moderate pressure.

Added: I bored out a smoke generator hole in a BR81 (3031) which wasn't intended for smoke. I used a drill press. The key issue is to make sure the stack is perfectly vertical before you cut metal. If you don't have access to a drill press to insure that the drill will not vary and some sort of jig to hold the lok body perfectly still, I wouldn't try it. Odds are you will mess it up.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline steventrain  
#20 Posted : 01 April 2005 20:55:31(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
<br />Hi Sam,Hi Fred,Hi all,



Additionally what I found is:

The Seuthe nr. 20 and 24 are comparable with M 72270 in size and mounted from inside loc body.
The Seuthe nr.10 and 11 are comparable with M 7226 in size and mounted from above.

The way I understand it ,is that the more sensitive units (conventional type!)should be used in a loco with more than one function and the special digital units in Delta or Digital locos with only one function.

Seuthe nr.11 and 24 are the "Digital" types recognizable by the pink coloured insulator.
Seuthe nr.10 and 20 are the "Conventional" ones recognizable by the green insulator.

Sam, for your M 37953 you would need the Seuthe nr.10 (= M 7226) and for your M 37082 the Seuthe nr. 20 (= M 72270)

Please note, that I have collected this information to the best of my knowledge and cannot absolutely guarantee it is all correct.

Fred,the smokegenerator in my loc (M 37186) is connected to the 500 mA function outlet.

Best Regards
Guus








THAT WAS CORRECT.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline efel  
#21 Posted : 08 April 2005 18:01:03(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Hi,
Thanks for your advice!
Ron, thanks for your very precise answer. I'm then to buy the smoke generator, and be very carefull if it does not match perfectly!

Fred
Offline steventrain  
#22 Posted : 09 April 2005 02:11:40(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Make sure four drop of fuild into it.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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