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Question C-track isolators, signal 74391 and signalbox 72750 - How to make it all work?
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Offline Geneva1  
#1 Posted : 08 October 2012 23:33:57(UTC)
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Geneva1

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Tannay (Geneva)
Hi all,

Building a layout for my 8-year old son, I was hoping to keep things simple in the beginning by using the Marklin economy line signal 74391 for isolating a track section via the 72750 signal box.

But being a-technical as I am, I'm lost as to how to make it work.

I did the following:

Isolated a section of the track via the 74030 isolators.
Connected signal via its 2 blue wires to the signal box, and its red wire to the isolated track section, to get feedback.
Connected red wire to B connectors at each outside end of the isolated track.
Connected the signal box to a transformator for juice.
Train stops as soon as it hits the isolated track, and stays there, regardless of whether the signal shows green.

Clearly I've permanently isolated the track section and the signal does not reactivate it.

Can anybody out there help out a poor technically challenged dad?

Many thanks in advance!

Marcus
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Offline DigitalNZ  
#2 Posted : 08 October 2012 23:49:48(UTC)
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DigitalNZ

New Zealand   
Joined: 13/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 233
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Hi Marcus

I'm not that familiar with the particular signal you are using but I've just got a few 76395 signals going the other day.
The signal is obviously powered properly as it changes and its definitely been isolated correctly!

On my signal decoder, I presume your is similar, there are two red wires beside each other that have spade terminals for connecting under the track. One of them must be connected in the signal block and the other outside. The signal switches this link on and off to power the isolated section.

Hopefully that will be of some use...

Kind Regards,

Daniell
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Offline Geneva1  
#3 Posted : 08 October 2012 23:57:49(UTC)
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Geneva1

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Tannay (Geneva)
Tks, Daniell. The 74-series are the cheaper Hobby line, as going for digital signals and decoders would be a challenge for my son at this stage. We only have one MS2 at the moment, so having to select signals via the MS2 is cumbersome.

So I put 2 isolators in the tracks at each end of the isolated section. Connected according to the instructions, but no go. Also have two wires from the signal to the box and one red wire from the signal to the track.
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Offline DigitalNZ  
#4 Posted : 09 October 2012 00:06:33(UTC)
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DigitalNZ

New Zealand   
Joined: 13/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 233
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Ive just been checking out the instructions for your signal. To me it looks like the signal box is supposed to make a circuit between the red in the isolated section and the ones either side to power the block when the signal is set to green. (Just like the decoders do) but obviously this is not happening. I was trying to edit my last post but for some reason I'm having problems...

I'd check that the spade connectors are on properly and that the wires are in the multi connector properly - that was the source of my fault one day that took me over an hour to find!

If you have a multimeter that can be a very useful tool for checking if the block is isolated or not. I'd think that when the switch box is set to green, you should be able to test for continuity between the red "B" terminals that are under the track or by putting one directly on the studs in the isolated section and the other outside. (Just make sure to press STOP on the MS2 first!)

I'm sure that you will get it working eventually!
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Offline Geneva1  
#5 Posted : 09 October 2012 00:10:11(UTC)
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Geneva1

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Tannay (Geneva)
Sounds like a plan! Will try it out tomorrow and will let you know.
Thanks again and take care!
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Offline Nielsenr  
#6 Posted : 09 October 2012 00:17:34(UTC)
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Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Marcus,

Although I have a couple of 74391 signals, I do not have a 72750 controlling box. Looking at the instructions for the signal and looking at my 07421 Electrical Manual Book, I think you are missing one connection. The way the signal and controlling box are connected differs depending on whether you are running analog, 6021, or a MS/CS2. The red wire from the signal should be connected to the stop section of track. I think you have done that. But it appears that there should also be a red wire coming out of the input connector to the 72750. This should be connected to a powered section of track. The signal does not turn power off and on to the stop section of the track, the 72750 controlling box does. And from the instructions and the 07421 book, it says you should not use the power supply for the MS to power the signal. You should use a separate power supply. Check your manual for the 74391. If you don't have one, I can try and scan the appropriate page and the page from the 07621 book.

Good luck!!

Robert
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Offline Geneva1  
#7 Posted : 09 October 2012 00:33:51(UTC)
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Geneva1

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Tannay (Geneva)
Thanks, robert!
In fact, there is a red wire from the input connector that plugs into the signal box. That wire connects to the stop section of the track. The other two wires (blue) coming from the input connector go directly to the signal. So there is no direct wire from the signal to the track so to speak.
I bought the signal box because I thought it would be easier for my son to control.
How would I use the signal with my MS2? Via a 88 decoder?
Thanks again for the help!
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Offline nevw  
#8 Posted : 09 October 2012 00:50:14(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Try an ESU Switch Pilot.
NN
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline Nielsenr  
#9 Posted : 09 October 2012 01:05:17(UTC)
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Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Marcus,

Here is the page out of the 07421 book:

UserPostedImage

The wire I think you need to connect is the red wire coming out of the left side of the 72750.

The 72750 and 74391 are not designed to work through the MS2. I have seen circuits where the 72750 control box is replaced with a K84 (or equivalent), but if I remember correctly, additional diodes are needed. And a second output from the K94 would then control the stop section of the track. It does become more complicated ... and expensive.

Robert
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Offline Geneva1  
#10 Posted : 10 October 2012 00:07:07(UTC)
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Geneva1

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Tannay (Geneva)
Many thanks Robert et al. Explanations did the trick and it all works well now!

I realize of course that this non-digital set-up does not allow for smooth breaking to a stop, but all rather abrupt.

Shame really, but once the entire layout is finished and it's time for the final touches, i may upgrade to the 76xxx signal series.

But for now my son loves it and that was the immediate goal.

So thanks again guys!
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 10 October 2012 00:17:25(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Geneva1 Go to Quoted Post
i may upgrade to the 76xxx signal series.
Those won't give you smooth braking either.

The brake modules 72441/72442 (or DIY solutions) give you smooth braking. Maybe that can be achieved even in combination with a 72750 control box.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline nevw  
#12 Posted : 10 October 2012 02:31:55(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
There is a Box available that turns 74XXX signals into Digital Signals (76XXX). cost about 40 Euros and will do 4 signals plus 4 distance signals. Available from Ebay seller dr.pannek
Or the other way is to use the ESU Switchpilot also will do 4 signals.

Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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