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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 16 September 2012 09:24:16(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
a post from jeehring: post 50: What would you like to see märklin improves in 2013

The Roco crocodile has long suffered from problems of connecting rods: the rods tended to block, then the engine warmed and finally failed.....
Marklin model has never had such problems...
About the arrangement of jack shaft and rods : in real there were 2 different types of Crocodile . Roco & Marklin didn't produce the same type of Locomotives. Both seem correct.


this is news to me, had my Roco crocodile since 1980 (AC version-analog) and another one since 1990, run them together with a heavy load behind them and never, never, NEVER had a problem.
any loco (doesn't make any difference which brand you are talking about) which isn't aligned properly will suffer and the motor will go hot.
There is a problem if you take the screws off (for instance changing rubber tyres) and you don't put the screws back where they came from, (the are slightly different in lenght) and by flipping them from one wheel to another can cause the loco to stop.
So if you have experienced this with your connecting rods, the engine warmed and finally failed you may look into this more closely and you may will find there is nothing wrong with the loco's design or connecting rods.

By the way, the Roco model does outpull the Märklin model, so in this instance, all metal doesn't always work when it comes how many carriages can it pull.

the advantage of a Märklin crocodile is: you can add a sound decoder and it has prototypical light change but I think the Roco crocodile has the same now with its latest model.
another difference is the size, the Märklin model is bigger in appearance: wider and longer and has a different axle arrangement

John
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thanks 2 users liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Rinus  
#2 Posted : 16 September 2012 09:44:10(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi John,

Thanks for the comparison. The size differenences are quite large!

Which axle arrangement is the correct one?

Rinus
Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 16 September 2012 10:49:09(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
Hi John,

Thanks for the comparison. The size differenences are quite large!

Which axle arrangement is the correct one?

Rinus


Rinus,

both are

the Märklin Croc is a Ce 6/8/III and the Roco is a Be 6/8/II

another + for the Roco model is, it has 6 powered axles instead of 2 (Märklin model = the middle axle hasn't got any contact with the rail therefore it has no function other than it is coupled with the other 2 outside axles.)

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 16 September 2012 10:55:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,450
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
Which axle arrangement is the correct one?
Both have the axle configuration (1’C)(C1’).
Roco makes the Ce 6/8 II with two jackshafts (for each group of three powered axles), Märklin makes the Ce 6/8 II with two jackshafts in 1 gauge and the Ce 6/8 III with one jackshaft in H0 gauge.

Roco H0: six powered axles; Märklin H0 (new mould): three powered axles.

The Ce 6/8 III is slightly longer (length over buffers 20,060 mm) than the Ce 6/8 II (19,460 mm).

Be 6/8 II and Be 6/8 III are the same locos, class name was changed to reflect the increased permitted maximum speed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jeehring  
#5 Posted : 16 September 2012 11:15:58(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
a post from jeehring: post 50: What would you like to see märklin improves in 2013

The Roco crocodile has long suffered from problems of connecting rods: the rods tended to block, then the engine warmed and finally failed.....
Marklin model has never had such problems...
About the arrangement of jack shaft and rods : in real there were 2 different types of Crocodile . Roco & Marklin didn't produce the same type of Locomotives. Both seem correct.


this is news to me, (....)....

John


You should ask some Swiss enthusiasts who were there as the first batches came onto the market.....THis is wellknown, and it took quite some time before Roco succeed in correcting the defaults....(still today we can read forums on which people got troubles with some of those Roco models).
About the pictures of the Marklin Crocodile : you should give the reference of your model (there were at least 3 different molds ....Yours doesn't seem to be the most recent one. Difficult to say on pictures, but It looks like the old 1/76 scale...One thing I'm sure about : the last references 39xxx are different)
thank you.
Offline Guus  
#6 Posted : 16 September 2012 12:27:31(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi all,

As mentioned by previous posters the RoCo loc is a model is of the earlier version of the Crocodile. Those locomotives were equipped with the typical triangular connecting rod between the driveshaft and the blind axle.
The Roman numerical II in the type name is the common designator of the earlier types Ce 6/8 II and the Be 6/8 II.
The "B" and "C" are speed classification designators. B is the letter used for the higher permissible speeds. Some of the older Ce 6/8 II's were modified to Be 6/8 II's in the early 1940s.

Märklin models the later type with the more simplified connecting rods ("Winterthurer Schrägstangenantrieb" like it's called in German)
The later versions have the Roman numerical III in the type name. Ce 6/8 III. From 1956 onwards the Ce 6/8 III's were renamed Be 6/8 III and were allowed the higher speed without any technical modification to the locomotive,albeit that they got another road number in that year.

B = Vmax 75kmh.

C = Vmax 65kmh.
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 16 September 2012 12:40:45(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Roland,

this may go back before 1980 (before my purchase) but is it really relevant to day in 2012 and looking at 2013, to bring something like that from the past which in my opinion must have been more than 25 years ago

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 17 September 2012 03:15:55(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,241
Location: Montreal, QC
At least we can all agree that these are all crocodiles and there is not an alligator in their midst.

Mike C
Offline hxmiesa  
#9 Posted : 18 September 2012 10:10:26(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,594
Location: Spain
I´m extremely happy with my Roco Croc. It´s not a great puller though (becuase of the distribution of traction tires; very different than Märklin) -but on well-laid tracks there is no problem. It runs so smooth and quiet! Excellent slow running in analog mode!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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