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Mixed results tonight with ESU decoders and CS2 and advice sought
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Offline ac jacko  
#1 Posted : 13 April 2012 16:46:18(UTC)
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ac jacko


Joined: 09/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Gawler South Australia
Gday guys, the 6 loco's arrived tonight and only ran a 3 on the club layout due limited success and limited sounds available. I am not CS2 savvy as such (MS2)only with ECOS on the way but limited success

I have a few queries which could not be answered at the club tonight and even Dusan was getting a bit frazzled:

1, Does the ESU Loksounds need to be loaded as DCC in the CS2 ??
2. If a loco exists already in the data base, either FX,MFX will the new loco with ESU Loksound DCC be required to change its register or can the CS2 differient between decoders as such?
3. Are ulenbrock decoders sames as ESU decoders as in DCC and again if a lcoco has ulenbrok address of 18 will an Loksound 18 require a different digital address ?
4. Can you changed Loksound digital address via the CS2 ?


One of the reasons is being the club had an e19 loaded into CS2 as digital address 3. With my Br 03 with Loksound and the same digital address 3 will this be required to be changed to aviod conflicts? Loco worked with limited slots as loaded as MM2 but when loaded as DCC had conflicts so we assumed with lcoco already loaded even though not the DCC variant

Leiths BR 53 was loaded fine as DCC with digtial address of 54 and all worked and loco went well but this was only loco in CS2 databse with address of 54 in the database so we assumed this was why no problem

We then loaded the Br50 but this was registered as MM with only 4 slots of sounds available. This should of registered as DCC as per leith Br 53 but this where confusion was starting to set in and the manual was no where to be found (yeah we know)

Sorry for basic questions guys but this was a very frustrating night for a digital noob like myself
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Online franciscohg  
#2 Posted : 13 April 2012 16:58:59(UTC)
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franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,274
Location: Patagonia
hi, my loksound 4.0 was installed a couple of days ago in my BR 23 and in the CS2, loaded as MM2 I have found no way to access CV above 255, nor f above f4. problem solved loading it as DCC, so I think that ESU 4.0 decoders must be loaded as DCC in the CS2 in order to program all the features they have.
I don't think you can have more than one loco in the same adress, even if the decoders are with different protocols, and yes, you can change the adress of an ESU decoder with the CS2
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Online franciscohg  
#3 Posted : 13 April 2012 17:15:16(UTC)
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franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,274
Location: Patagonia
BTW, your question reminds me how angry I am with M... and ES..... this decoder was bought to replace an old Mfx loksound wich I managed to burn doing all the things I was not supposed to do. but I remember that, as you know, just putting it into the tracks and let's run! now I have to configure even the symbols for sounds....as for the 128 speed steps, there is just a little difference with other lock running a lokpilot 2.0 in MM2 mode.....
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 13 April 2012 18:15:02(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,727
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Dale,

You can't have conflicting addresses on any system, so 2 addresses with the same loco is not on unless you program them as a consist.

Unfortunately I can't help you with and how to program an ESU decoder on a CS2,
The other thing has also to be noted, the BR 53 has RailComPlus feedback but not the others (003 & 03.10) I can't tell you the other settings but you should be able to look it up with the attachments I've send you.
Looking at the settings of the 3 loco I've mentioned they ar all set on DCC 28 steps. so if you have another one registerd with the same number as a motorola loco this would be a conflicting scenario I assume.

Sorry to hear it turned out that way, looks like both of us not having much luck at the moment.

All the locos with ESU decoders will automatically set the type of system, e.g. Motorola 1, Motorola 2, DCC or DC.
All your locos should respond but not with the same address.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline nevw  
#5 Posted : 14 April 2012 00:25:44(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
The only time you can have 2 Locos withthe same address on CV1 is when they are MFX. The controller ECOS CS2 etc idenifies the locos my their MAC address not CV1.
MAC address is in the Chip.

NEV
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline ac jacko  
#6 Posted : 14 April 2012 01:18:27(UTC)
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ac jacko


Joined: 09/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Gawler South Australia

Thanks Guys for the replies. Looks like I will have change my loco's to the digital addresses of 100 series ie - BR 53 will have a digitnal address 153, BR 03 will have address of 103, Br18 will have address 118 etc etc.

I will wait to the ECOS gets here and change the address ( as unsure if dusan can do this on the CS2) and then will try them on the CS2 with a DCC load at club layout.

cheers Dale
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Offline nevw  
#7 Posted : 14 April 2012 04:14:05(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
can be easy on CS2. REal Easy.

Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Online franciscohg  
#8 Posted : 14 April 2012 04:16:03(UTC)
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franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,274
Location: Patagonia
Originally Posted by: nevw Go to Quoted Post
can be easy on CS2. REal Easy.

Nev


yes it can ;)
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline 3rail4life  
#9 Posted : 14 April 2012 06:09:47(UTC)
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3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Not too hard to do on the mobile station either.
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Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 14 April 2012 07:48:40(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: ac jacko Go to Quoted Post
1, Does the ESU Loksounds need to be loaded as DCC in the CS2??
No, but MM is limited and DCC can fully exploit the loco.
MM is limited to 5 functions per address. ESU Loksound can use two MM addresses to get 9 functions under MM (while there can be 16 or more under DCC).
MM supports 14 speed steps, DCC 14, 28, or 126.

Originally Posted by: ac jacko Go to Quoted Post
2. If a loco exists already in the data base, either FX,MFX will the new loco with ESU Loksound DCC be required to change its register or can the CS2 differient between decoders as such?
CS2 can store two or more locos with the same address, but they cannot be on the layout at the same time - and sooner or later it'll lead to trouble.
I'd use different addresses if possible.

Originally Posted by: ac jacko Go to Quoted Post
3. Are ulenbrock decoders sames as ESU decoders as in DCC and again if a lcoco has ulenbrok address of 18 will an Loksound 18 require a different digital address?
The are MM decoders, there are DCC decoders - the brand doesn't matter. See 2.

Originally Posted by: ac jacko Go to Quoted Post
4. Can you changed Loksound digital address via the CS2?
Yes. Register the loco as DCC and change the address in the main Properties screen of the loco. CS2 should take care of the four CVs involved with address changes automatically (remember that CV 1 may only hold values in the range 1 through 127). Don't change CV 1 in the CV screen (unless you know what you are doing).
Full address range is 1 through 10239. Instead of adding 100, you may also use higher numbers or a completely different pattern. For DCC locos, I normally use 1000+(three-digit class number), so a BR 185 gets address 1185.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ac jacko  
#11 Posted : 16 April 2012 13:01:37(UTC)
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ac jacko


Joined: 09/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Gawler South Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: ac jacko Go to Quoted Post
1, Does the ESU Loksounds need to be loaded as DCC in the CS2??
No, but MM is limited and DCC can fully exploit the loco.
MM is limited to 5 functions per address. ESU Loksound can use two MM addresses to get 9 functions under MM (while there can be 16 or more under DCC).
MM supports 14 speed steps, DCC 14, 28, or 126.

Originally Posted by: ac jacko Go to Quoted Post
2. If a loco exists already in the data base, either FX,MFX will the new loco with ESU Loksound DCC be required to change its register or can the CS2 differient between decoders as such?
CS2 can store two or more locos with the same address, but they cannot be on the layout at the same time - and sooner or later it'll lead to trouble.
I'd use different addresses if possible.

Originally Posted by: ac jacko Go to Quoted Post
3. Are ulenbrock decoders sames as ESU decoders as in DCC and again if a lcoco has ulenbrok address of 18 will an Loksound 18 require a different digital address?
The are MM decoders, there are DCC decoders - the brand doesn't matter. See 2.

Originally Posted by: ac jacko Go to Quoted Post
4. Can you changed Loksound digital address via the CS2?
Yes. Register the loco as DCC and change the address in the main Properties screen of the loco. CS2 should take care of the four CVs involved with address changes automatically (remember that CV 1 may only hold values in the range 1 through 127). Don't change CV 1 in the CV screen (unless you know what you are doing).
Full address range is 1 through 10239. Instead of adding 100, you may also use higher numbers or a completely different pattern. For DCC locos, I normally use 1000+(three-digit class number), so a BR 185 gets address 1185.


I like this idea of the 1000 as will remove any issues with club members in the future Cool
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Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 16 April 2012 13:24:38(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,727
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Dale,

Your locos all have been set for the MS2 and I thought having a club night you'll be using it.
I did'nt konw you're going to use a CS2.

As Tom explained his locos for DCC start at 1000 but you can configure this for yourself where you start off.

For instance, by activating RailComPlus feedback (all turned off except Leith BR 53) with your lokprogrammer all you have to do than is put the loco onto the track and the ECoS will recognize it automatically.
You than enter the required number (it is set, starting at 1000) and ECoS does the rest, put in your photo, the loco description.
One thing I would do beforehand, if you are changing any CV's do this before registering it with the ECoS otherwise the ECoS will think it is a new loco and one very important thing is also to save the setting.

I'm not completely familiar running locos with ESU sound decoders Version 4 with a CS2 whether or not there is a conflict between Maerklin mfx locos and RailComPlus activated decoders.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline ac jacko  
#13 Posted : 26 April 2012 10:56:03(UTC)
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ac jacko


Joined: 09/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Gawler South Australia
Well back at the club tomorrow for more ballasting work and Dusan keen to try the loco's again so will see how we go

cheers
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Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 26 April 2012 11:00:28(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,727
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: ac jacko Go to Quoted Post
Well back at the club tomorrow for more ballasting work and Dusan keen to try the loco's again so will see how we go

cheers


Dale,
you may try to figure it out with the attachments I've send you regarding each individual loco and their settings although it could be the BR 53 has lost its original settings.

Good luck

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline nevw  
#15 Posted : 26 April 2012 11:55:09(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
AfAIk there should be no difference between setting a Decoder for CS2 or MS2.

A Big FU somehwere.

NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline Lollo  
#16 Posted : 26 April 2012 11:59:29(UTC)
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Lollo

New Zealand   
Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 365
Hi all,

Just to add something here from the ESU web site, New Features: Lok Programmer 4.3.1

Added support for Motorola F9-F16 (using 3rd and 4th address) to virtual driver's cab
Q. Does this mean you will now get 16 function with MS2, CS1/CS2 or ECoS?

Some of the new sound files are now Revision 4, here is one, No.54410 BR 50

F1 drive sequence
F2 whistle
F3 bell
F4 coal shoveling
F5 air pump
F6 acceleration/brake time, shuting mode/shunting speed
F7 curve squeal
F8 AUX1
F9 cylinder blow out
F10 conductor's signal
F11 coupler
F12 sand
F13 brake release
F14 german station announcement #2
F15 short whistle
F16 safety valve
F17 rail clank
F18 empty of the firebox
F19 water pump
F20 injector
F21 german station announcement #2
Brian
Yaasan's Desktop Station/Railuino & Marklin MS2, DB Era III/IV Diesel & Steam, ESU Loksound/Lokpilot & Lokprogrammer, Marklin mSD, Tam Valley Depot Octopus III Servo Controller.
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Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 26 April 2012 13:49:45(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Lollo Go to Quoted Post
Q. Does this mean you will now get 16 function with MS2, CS1/CS2 or ECoS?
No, this means you'll get 17 functions using MM protocol and four MM addresses, even with a CU 6021. But only with ESU decoders that support 4 MM addresses.

Using a DCC controller you can get all functions using a single address (current limits: 22 functions for ECoS/CS1R, 16 functions for MS2/CS2).

Users of MS2/CS2 can use the 4th MM address to access F16 (while they can access F0 through F15 using DCC and the primary address).

With mLD and mSD from Märklin, you get 16 functions using MM protocol and four addresses. AFAIK this is not enabled for factory installed loco decoders (those 9 functions with 2 addresses).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ac jacko  
#18 Posted : 29 April 2012 12:13:45(UTC)
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ac jacko


Joined: 09/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Gawler South Australia
I had success with my MS2 registering all as DCC as no chance at the club with the train exhibition coming fast. When we chance at the club on the CS2 I will try again there with Dusan in tow. I appreciate all the hints and tips as well from all members as CS2 should not been issue. I am going to alter the digital address on the loco to have a the extra 1 at the front to aviod furture club (ie BR 53 will be 153) issues so this will be another event when tryng to learn that Blink so might wait a bit

When back from interstate on Job interviews I will be doing my layout videos with the loco's doing laps on the final MS2 as my ECOS should be here then Cool

cheers
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