Hi all,

I would be interested to find out your observations on the subject of simply replacing a 3-pole motor with a 5-pole motor. Do you observe improvement in the running of the locomotive ?

I had a couple of Delta locomotives which came factory fitted with a 3-pole motor. For example, one of these was ICE-2 starter set locomotive. It was fine when travelling at constant speed, but the acceleration and deceleration rates were unfortunately too abrupt. I decided therefore to simply replace the 3-pole motor with a 5-pole motor, while still leaving the original factory fitted magnet and the decoder unchanged. This modification seems to have improved the performance at slow speeds, and also provided smoother acceleration and deceleration.

I suppose the question here is how much performance change is there on simply replacing the 3-pole motor with a 5-pole motor, compared to how much performance change there is in a permanent magnet vs coil magnet, and how much performance change there is programmed into the micro-chip, which all together enables a fully high efficieny motor to power along so graciously along the track, and demonstrate such a high standard of speed control ?

Let me know your views ........

Regards,
John

I have done many both ways (3 vs. 5). Not sure I can tell a significant improvement with the 5 pole. They all run better with a good cleaning, new brushes and an ESU decoder and magnet so I'm not sure what's what. Maybe that tells me that the 5 is not that much of an improvement.
Eric

I agree with Tim and I have to be convinced yet anybody cliaiming the 3 pole anker with a permanent magnet, ok you save some money but the running characterstics are like chalk and cheese.
Anybody claiming the 3 pole motor with a permanent magnet is as good or can hardly notice the difference hasn't had the pleasure of running locos as smooth as a 5 pole motor.

You may claim having improved the running characterstics or you may converted an analog to digital and using a mfx decoder.

there are several points of importance what you are actually changing or how much of it.
As Tim pointed out an ESU decoder is in my opinion and I'm sure there are others on the market which do the sqme thing and have the same qualities and protocol functionality, pretty much the best on the amrket.

For your 3 pole loco to run smoothly, which changes whether it is large flat or small anker or drum style armature.

to program each motor you have to change different CV's to different values and I have yet to come up with the right mix after spending hours after hours trying to get a smooth start.
Even with an ESU lokprogrammer I haven't managed to correctly identify the CV's.

Another issue is what type of controller are you using and are you running the locosw under AC,DC or DCC.
thirdly your brushplate, is it aligned properly. Oiling is just a very small part of it but important unless the loco has ceased or hasn't been running for ages, oiling is not a major problem as most locos last for a long time before this maintenance schedule is needed.
Brushes yes, cleanliness, yes and as Jacques pointed out most of the cogwheels from locos of the era of 3 pole motors had been stamped and are sometimes totally out of whack.

I would recommend to anyone, who is tempted to convert their loco(s) to use a 5 pole motor instead of the 3 pole and there will always be the ones who will not agree with me on the basis, they are happy the way their locos run with a 3 pole motor and swear by it.
Yes you save some money, yes it is suited for children, yes it is an improvement from analog to digital but there are also other companies who provide motors either faulhaber or S-Cine motors to convert your loco with even better results than your 5 pole motor and this is: less noise again at higher speeds.
and last and not least, if you are contemplating of using a sound decoder, as it was documented as well on this forum, forget about running your express loco at high speed, your sound will not be heared or very unlikely.

and there are always the ones who try to save the day by compromising any issue whether it is quality, sound or performance of any loco and tell you they haven't had any problems at all because all the want to come home to, play with their trains regardless, whether they are digital or analog or have any type of motor in it solong they go around in circles and mesmerize their brain, forgetting about their surroundings.

John

Sorry to hijack the thread but I have a related question. Is it in any way possible to use a 5 pole motor in an analog way? Can one exchange the anchor on an analog motor with a 5 pole anchor and run as normal? The reason for the question is I have a small project (Still only in research and planning stage) where I will run a locomotive (analog) via computer by pulsing current to the track. Therefore I do not want a decoder but would like a good motor. If it isn't possible I might consider not going through with this project.

Hi Oliver, yes you can, Märklin used to produce some models with field coil and 5-pole anchor, they did in fact experiment with the pulsating current concept. However, that would only be practical if in fact you would be using AC and triac control. If you use DC, pulsating the current means running on PWM anyway, in which case you have the choice of either using the series motor with field coil or the type with field coil replaced by a permanent magnet, HAMO or Märklin. It will allow you to observe the different driving characteristics of these motor types. When running the field coil motor, limit your PWM frequency to around 500 Hz max, because of the higher induction in the coils.

As to the 5-pole anchors, Märklin has various models, depending on the motor construction (LFCM, SFCM, DCM).

Best regards, Robert

John, Robert & Kevin, thanks for your answers! . That was the information I was looking for! The community came through once more. I guess this means that it is doable and that I have to start searching for an analog loco then.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Thats correct. No load regulation, no acceleration/decelaration adjustments. The "80" decoder still used the 3 pole AC motor. I just switched out with an AC 5 pole to see if running characteristics improved. They did not so much as outlined above. If you switch to DC then running characteristics will improve dramaticly.

Regards, Kevin