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Offline elsleuth  
#1 Posted : 05 January 2005 20:33:23(UTC)
elsleuth


Joined: 23/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: ,
Hi, I'm slowing moving to digital and have a 6021 controller. Will the 6021 work with a 32 va transformer? I want to run 4 engines and 4 switches and 4 signals. My lights are on a separate transformer. Elsleuth
Offline McLae  
#2 Posted : 05 January 2005 22:09:48(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
You may not have a problem.
The brown + Yellow connection from any Marklin AC trafo should be fine.

4 Loks(engines) may or may not be a problem, as some engines use more power than others. I have run 4 Loks with a 32W Marklin trafo (With an IB or a 6022), but I have heard of Loks that have trouble sharing power with more than one other Lok[xx(].
You might consider moving the signal power to the lights trafo. (With common ground, of course!)

If you do need more power, the Delta controlers make inexpensive boosters for switches and signals.wink Or you can upgrade to a Titan power supply.

Look to see if you have a problem first, then consider options.
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline Webmaster  
#3 Posted : 05 January 2005 22:57:13(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Should be quite ok to start with. McLae's suggestions are worth considering if you have some hickups... The signals & switches only use digital power momentarily while throwing, but as suggested - connect the "yellow" on the signals to the lights transformer (if this also is an M transformer or a 16V AC transformer..) to save some "digital energy" for the loks...

Since you have signals, I assume all 4 loks are not running at the same time and then it should be no problem...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline elsleuth  
#4 Posted : 06 January 2005 17:40:02(UTC)
elsleuth


Joined: 23/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: ,
Great information. Now If I transfer my signals to my "lamps" transformer will that effect the way they control the track movement of the trains. I run two trains alternately on one track with the use of signals? Kent
Offline McLae  
#5 Posted : 06 January 2005 22:41:33(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
Depends what kind of signals you have. If you have 7039, or 7188 signals like I used to use, the track power relay is completly sepatate from the control circuits.

With older equipment (Non-MS) as long as the ground (Brown) is common, you can provide power (yellow) from several trafos. Just connect the yellow wires to the trafo of choice. Since ground is common, and most control sensors use ground to activate (circuit and contact tracks, etc) there is no change to how the trains are controlled.

I assume by 'run two trains alternately' that you are using something close to the 'simple block control' I describe in my article. (Top right of Home pagebiggrin[:I])
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline elsleuth  
#6 Posted : 07 January 2005 17:24:24(UTC)
elsleuth


Joined: 23/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: ,
McLae, that's just what I needed to know. Is the separate relay evidenced by where the wires come out of the signals? (front and back sections) Yes I do simple block control as you described and it works wonderfully. Thanks. Kent
Offline mrmarklin  
#7 Posted : 08 January 2005 08:40:06(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 890
Location: Burney, CA
I would consider a 32VA transformer very marginal for the set up you are describing. You should allocate 10VA per lok assuming that they are capable of running simultaneously, and have an additional 10VA in reserve for switches, signals etc, assuming they are thrown one at a time. You must remember that the 6021 and any auxiliary units also suck VA.
A better setup would be: The 32Va just to run the 6021 and Aux, a booster with a Titan trafo for the track, and another booster with a Titan trafo for the switches and signals. This setup will allow you to throw the switches and signals without affecting trains on the tracks. BTW, I would still light everything separately. You really cannot have too much current on the track for proper running of the loks as well. This recommended setup also allows for growth. No one stays with just 4 Loks:-)
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
Offline perz  
#8 Posted : 08 January 2005 14:13:45(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:You should allocate 10VA per lok

Depends on what kind of lok. Older ones with AC motors and Delta or unregulated decoders draw about 8 - 10 VA (with head lights on). Newer 6090x loks draw significantly less and those with C-sine or can-style motors even less. With the newer loks, 4 - 6 VA is a more typical figure. I even measured as low as 1.9 VA on a 37646 (with lights off). Of course, inner lights and other extra equipment like telex, smoke or sound adds to the power requirements (sound doesn't add very much though).
Offline mrmarklin  
#9 Posted : 09 January 2005 08:31:52(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 890
Location: Burney, CA
10 Va is Marklin's recommendation, and after years of running on modular layouts many varieties of trains, it is solid advice. I'm no expert, but sound takes more than you would think, and all Marklin's newer top of the line Loks will have it. In particular the mfx chip seems hungrier than most. A lower VA # per lok means that you are using no special functions and that they are mechanically in perfect condition. The latter is almost always far from the truth, and any deviation will suck VA like a sticky switch motor.
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
Offline perz  
#10 Posted : 09 January 2005 11:22:08(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Have you measured? If mfx needs more power than the old 6090x it would be interesting to know. Regarding sound, the simple horn and bell sounds draw practically nothing, but I haven't measured on anything with "real" sound. Anyone got a real measured figure ?
Offline Timaximus  
#11 Posted : 09 January 2005 13:58:46(UTC)
Timaximus

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,412
Location: Home
When you have 4 trains with 4 passenger cars + lights a 48VA transformer will be just fine. The 32VA you have will probable work also but when you get hickups or see other things like dimmed lights then you always can buy a new transformer.

I prefer the Uhlenbrocks because of the more value per money.

Always connect all the city-lights and the signal-lights and turnout-lights (brown + yellow) to a separate transformer, as you already do.
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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