37973 Mikado Sound/SmokeProblem

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DigitalNZ		#1 Posted : 17 January 2012 10:03:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 233 Location: Masterton, New Zealand		Evening everyone, I decided to give my Mikdo a run as it had been boxed up for quite a long time. I had put the smoke generator in it and not used it so decided to try it out on my Carpetbahn tonight. I turned the sound on as usual etc, headlight on and working model runs perfectly until I turn the Smoke generator contact on which incidentally didn't work. Immediately the operating sounds cut out completely. As soon as the smoke is turned off the sounds returned. If I press the whistle and turn the contact on while it sounds it will finish as usual but not the other way around. I'm quite confused . Loco still moves regardless. My Multimeter reads 17V DC on the smoke generator contact so it is getting power. Has anyone else had a similar experience or have any ideas? Do I need to go and order a new decoder if I want sound? It shouldn't make any difference but I'm using a 60214. The CS2 shows that the main track current decreases as the Smoke generator is turned on albeit by a very small amount (explained by sound not working perhaps). It seems a bit weird to me! Regards, Daniell


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AshleyH		#2 Posted : 17 January 2012 10:53:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 693 Location: Bournemouth, Dorset		The 37973 Union Pacific Mikado was in fact produced in 2 different versions by Märklin. The majority of the production is fitted with an FX Decoder and synthesised sound, much like the first of the Big Boys 37990. However, the final batch was fitted with an MFX Loksound Decoder with much improved and extended sampled sound effects. The MFX version is signified by an MFX sticker applied to the box, at least on my version. A quick look at the available models on eBay shows they are all FX versions which are by far the most common. And of course, the MFX version would auto register on your 60214 Central Station. I have not yet tried a smoke generator in my MFX 37973, I will try and find if I have a spare one. In the meantime, it would be helpful if you could say which decoder version you have, as this may make a difference. Best Regards Ashley

2 users liked this useful post by AshleyH		DigitalNZ, Gilbert_Ives
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DigitalNZ		#3 Posted : 17 January 2012 11:06:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 233 Location: Masterton, New Zealand		Hi Ashley, It is the original FX model, I never knew that there was an MFX version in the UP scheme, I' only seen the PRR one in MFX. Poor day you don't learn something! The sound is indeed the same as the Fx Big boy, we have one from the starter set. And a 2005 insider club MFX model Big Boy, they are stunning models! Thanks for trying to help me. It sure is a great being able to have someone on the other side of the world helping to fix your problem! Daniell


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NZMarklinist		#4 Posted : 19 January 2012 12:57:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: DigitalNZ Evening everyone, I decided to give my Mikdo a run as it had been boxed up for quite a long time. I had put the smoke generator in it and not used it so decided to try it out on my Carpetbahn tonight. I turned the sound on as usual etc, headlight on and working model runs perfectly until I turn the Smoke generator contact on which incidentally didn't work. Immediately the operating sounds cut out completely. As soon as the smoke is turned off the sounds returned. If I press the whistle and turn the contact on while it sounds it will finish as usual but not the other way around. I'm quite confused . Loco still moves regardless. My Multimeter reads 17V DC on the smoke generator contact so it is getting power. Has anyone else had a similar experience or have any ideas? Do I need to go and order a new decoder if I want sound? It shouldn't make any difference but I'm using a 60214. The CS2 shows that the main track current decreases as the Smoke generator is turned on albeit by a very small amount (explained by sound not working perhaps). It seems a bit weird to me! Regards, Daniell Hello Daniel, I had exactly the same trouble with a new MFX M39011 DRG '01, I got a couple of years ago. The Smoke generator contact point was touching the screw mount part of the body it seemed, when pushed down slightly by installing the smoke unit. Too late for me not to fry the smoke unit output of the decoder However, list member dr whittle (The Train Dr) here in Auckland identified the problem, and after not finding a replacement whistle suitable in the ESU menu, so a simple decoder replacement could be done, he did a workaround on the original decoder as there was a spare aux output and a function reassignment and all is now well. In your case STOP immediately from using it !! If you blow the sound module up in your Mikado, a whole new decoder, & or sound module will be necessary. I will ask Dennis if the Mikado could be having a similar problem, he has an MFX version, that works fine, but basic construction will be the same ! Cheers
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider


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NZMarklinist		#5 Posted : 19 January 2012 13:31:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		I've just had a look at a parts diagram for your Mikado, in fact the 37970 NYC version as there is no on line diagram for the 37973 The smoke generator contact is not shown, it's a different smoke unit to the '01 as well, installed by removing the body, rather than pushing down the smoke stack. I've emailed Dennis, wait and see what he comes back with, but btw the decoder, sound unit and decoder board are all one piece for you Loco, so a difficult replacement as they're not available ! A new Marklin or ESU decoder board and MFX (M4)Decoder could be grafted in there if the worst happened, altho that said I think the best menu for the Mikado sounds might be from ESU at the moment ! Cheers
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider


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AshleyH		#6 Posted : 19 January 2012 14:43:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 693 Location: Bournemouth, Dorset		It is possibly just the smoke unit 72270(?) causing a direct short on that function output. Do you have another smoke unit to try? Also, what happens if you remove the smoke unit and then activate the function? Is there any effect on the sound output in this instance? Best Regards Ashley


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dntower85		#7 Posted : 19 January 2012 15:17:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA		Make sure that the brass tab on the loco's frame is not making contact with anything other than the small copper wire on the bottom of the smoke unit. If the body of the loco was put on at a bad angle it might be possible to bend that tab in a strange way that it would make contact. You could try testing the smoke unit with the loco body off the frame. And the smoke unit installed. It makes it easier to handle the smoke unit when it gets hot this way, and it test connectivity to the shell. Apply about 16 volts to the unit by connecting one lead to the body and carefully touch the the copper wire on the bottom of the smoke unit. It should smoke if it has fluid in it. If you have an amp meeter you could test it with this set up. I don't know exactly off the top of my head how many Milli amps it should use but If it pulls more than 1 amp it would fry the entire decoder. Something in the range of 120-140mA sounds right.
		DT Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.


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drwhitl		#8 Posted : 19 January 2012 18:44:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 98 Location: Auckland,		Originally Posted by: DigitalNZ Evening everyone, I decided to give my Mikdo a run as it had been boxed up for quite a long time. I had put the smoke generator in it and not used it so decided to try it out on my Carpetbahn tonight. I turned the sound on as usual etc, headlight on and working model runs perfectly until I turn the Smoke generator contact on which incidentally didn't work. Immediately the operating sounds cut out completely. As soon as the smoke is turned off the sounds returned. If I press the whistle and turn the contact on while it sounds it will finish as usual but not the other way around. I'm quite confused . Loco still moves regardless. My Multimeter reads 17V DC on the smoke generator contact so it is getting power. Has anyone else had a similar experience or have any ideas? Do I need to go and order a new decoder if I want sound? It shouldn't make any difference but I'm using a 60214. The CS2 shows that the main track current decreases as the Smoke generator is turned on albeit by a very small amount (explained by sound not working perhaps). It seems a bit weird to me! Regards, Daniell Hi Daniell, It's almost certainly a short circuit in the function output, either because (as DT suggests) the smoker is installed imcorrectly, or for some other reason. Whatever you do, DON'T keep trying it until you've made some efforts to resolve the problem as you could finish up by blowing up the function output on your decoder. (The outputs are "protected" but they're not bulletproof). First, remove the smoker again, check (with an ohmeter if u have one) that the smoke unit has a reasonable DC resistance, then (leaving it out), check very briefly whether the problem still exists. If all is ok with the smoker still removed, and if the smoker resistance seem ok, then it's probably the way you had it installed: Make sure that the little wire tongue on the bottom of the smoke unit is pulled out from the smoker a reaonable amount,(say 30 degrees anyway) and that wire tongue should point FORWARDS when you install the smoker. cheers Dennis
		WWW

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DigitalNZ		#9 Posted : 19 January 2012 19:01:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 233 Location: Masterton, New Zealand		Thanks for the tips everyone, Yesterday morning I did remove the smoke generator and connected it directly to the power and it did work which I was pleased with. I do however have a spare 72270 in the office at my grandparents and a couple of the 7226 -the one you push down he smoke stack. Even with the smoke unit removed it still cuts the sound out when the contact is activated. I haven't put it back in. I'll have a better read up of what you have all written later on today and report back, as I am one of the light and sound techs at our school hall and we are holding the funeral for a couple who were killed in the recent hot air balloon accident near Carterton. We are having a test of equipment in an hour and there seems to be a very annoying flicker that no one can fix with our very expensive projector. To me it looks like it could be a grounding problem. Ive got until 2pm to get it as fixed as I can. Kind regards, Daniell


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drwhitl		#10 Posted : 19 January 2012 20:01:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 98 Location: Auckland,		Originally Posted by: DigitalNZ Thanks for the tips everyone, .....................Even with the smoke unit removed it still cuts the sound out when the contact is activated. I haven't put it back in............... Ouch. Well in that case it looks like the short circuit is in the wiring, on the PCB, or maybe the smoker contact spring is just bent on an angle. I'm a bit surprised because I thought u said earlier that you had 17v on the smoker contact, which u could hardly have if there was a permanent short circuit in there. Is it perhaps only with the body "on" that the problem occurs? in which case it almost has to be a short circuit to the inside of the body shell - probably from the smoke unit contact itself. If the problem exits with body on or off, then I'd suspect the wiring, maybe even at the PCB terminations back in the tender. As you have the possibilty of foofing the decoder if you play too much with it live, I'd be inclined to trouble shoot on the bench with an ohm meter if you can see the the problem that way. Best of luck with your projector problem too. My sympathies. Dennis
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DigitalNZ		#11 Posted : 20 January 2012 09:58:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 233 Location: Masterton, New Zealand		Evening Everyone, Some good and not so bad news in the same post. Good: Funeral went well and we sorted the projector flicker by using an old fashioned isolating transformer. One of the other guys thinks that a solution could be to get an electrician to reverse the phase to the projector at the distribution board as it is on its own circuit in the hall. Unlike everyone in Germany, the USA and other countries we can't just turn the plug 180º to change phase as is often shown in Märklin books. Fortunately it also means we don't have that problem! see This article for more info. Not so bad news: I haven't been in the mood after dealing with a funeral all day to run trains tonight so therefore haven't tried any of your suggestions yet. I've been scanning 35mm slides for a family friend over a few weeks. I've done about 3300 slides so far... It takes a while!!! I'll be able to give them all to him tomorrow night as theres just over 100 or so to go. Kind regards, Daniell


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